Official 2020-21 Season Thread #1: To Beard or not To Beard?

[sixers hoops]

Nothing new on the trade front. Still in wait and see mode. Wont be around for the next few days. Happy New Year!

Enjoy the New year!

[eyeatoma]

Nothing new on the trade front. Still in wait and see mode. Wont be around for the next few days. Happy New Year!

January 1st stll a day we could see something happen?

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[Arsenal]

Where are all these great teams that we would not be a strong contender with Embiid and Harden? I disagree. We would be a couple good buyout pickups and good health away from a title. Still not trying to overpay though.

[agiaco]

Yeah people just aren't being realistic about the rest of this roster. It would need to be overhauled to fit around Harden. There's no time to do that in-season.

We did the Frankenstein thing with the 2019 team, it's fun and all but the lack of cohesion held that team back.

And that's not even getting into the merits of Harden the player and his underwhelming playoff success.

They've remade this team like 5 times in the last 3 years, just hope they are patient for once.

Please tell me how you think this current roster has a realistic chance of competing as it stands. The NBA is more competitive than ever. The east overall is better and deeper than the 2019 playoff run and this current squad is easily worse overall than that team. The SIxers have to get past the likes of the Bucks, Nets, Celtics, Heat. Hell even the Pacers and Raptors still.

The team's identity is live or die with Embiid. The Sixers desperately need a guy that can elevate them to making the finals. I'm not convinced at all that this team is built to even get through the semifinals.

If you really think the "rest of the roster" is going to shake up a lot if the likes of Matisse Thybulle and Tyrese Maxey are traded with Ben, then I won't bother to continue.

Like Mik said, I don't think it does. I think pretending that Harden allows them to compete is much more dangerous than waiting for another opportunity (whether that's trading Simmons or otherwise) and making changes around the roster to get it in a better position.

I agree the 2019 team was better than this one. It would probably be better than the team with Harden too.

I get where you are coming from in terms of there always being risk in making blockbuster trades. I don't see how it's pretending though. Pretending is like trading for a pseudo-star in hopes that they're enough to propel the team to a finals run. Pretending is like playing the waiting game with the hope a comparable move will be just be available within the next couple of years.

There seems to be an unnecessary amount of concern with Harden and his fit culturally or his age. "Fat" Harden literally hit the court and dropped 44-17 in his first game. He's shown no signs of slowing down. The fact that he's even available and potentially acquirable for Simmons and change is something I never would have thought possible and only because he's trying to force their hand to get out of Houston.

Strike while the iron is hot. Pairing Jo and James is the most realistic shot this team has to win a ring over the next few seasons. I have little doubt in my mind that even if the Sixers can't quite get there this year, the team will fill out with more impactful role players than some of the young pieces paired with Simmons in a trade.

[Black Mage]

Yeah gotta disagree as well Mik. Just because you don't think this will get us the championship, you should still make the move. This gets us closer than ever before. We may be able to get rid of Tobias a little later. Simmons is what he is, and he is clearly not enough. With Harden, we would lack defense, but we'd still be top 10 with Embiid manning the middle.

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

[syntax]

Yeah gotta disagree as well Mik. Just because you don't think this will get us the championship, you should still make the move. This gets us closer than ever before. We may be able to get rid of Tobias a little later. Simmons is what he is, and he is clearly not enough. With Harden, we would lack defense, but we'd still be top 10 with Embiid manning the middle.

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

When Harden walks just like Butler did, what's your plan then?

[Black Mage]

Please tell me how you think this current roster has a realistic chance of competing as it stands. The NBA is more competitive than ever. The east overall is better and deeper than the 2019 playoff run and this current squad is easily worse overall than that team. The SIxers have to get past the likes of the Bucks, Nets, Celtics, Heat. Hell even the Pacers and Raptors still.

The team's identity is live or die with Embiid. The Sixers desperately need a guy that can elevate them to making the finals. I'm not convinced at all that this team is built to even get through the semifinals.

If you really think the "rest of the roster" is going to shake up a lot if the likes of Matisse Thybulle and Tyrese Maxey are traded with Ben, then I won't bother to continue.

Like Mik said, I don't think it does. I think pretending that Harden allows them to compete is much more dangerous than waiting for another opportunity (whether that's trading Simmons or otherwise) and making changes around the roster to get it in a better position.

I agree the 2019 team was better than this one. It would probably be better than the team with Harden too.

Impatience and desperation keeps biting this team in the ass.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

[Black Mage]

Yeah gotta disagree as well Mik. Just because you don't think this will get us the championship, you should still make the move. This gets us closer than ever before. We may be able to get rid of Tobias a little later. Simmons is what he is, and he is clearly not enough. With Harden, we would lack defense, but we'd still be top 10 with Embiid manning the middle.

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

When Harden walks just like Butler did, what's your plan then?

First, he has 2 years left, not one like Jimmy. Second, we were an approved team which meant he'd sign an extension with us.

[sixers4real]

Yeah gotta disagree as well Mik. Just because you don't think this will get us the championship, you should still make the move. This gets us closer than ever before. We may be able to get rid of Tobias a little later. Simmons is what he is, and he is clearly not enough. With Harden, we would lack defense, but we'd still be top 10 with Embiid manning the middle.

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

When Harden walks just like Butler did, what's your plan then?

Butler walked because he was not offered 5-year Max. He would’ve stayed if not Brett Brown and Ben Simmons.

[syntax]

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

When Harden walks just like Butler did, what's your plan then?

First, he has 2 years left, not one like Jimmy. Second, we were an approved team which meant he'd sign an extension with us.

Where has Harden mentioned signing an extension with the team he is traded to?

"Brooklyn represents a two-year play to win a title before deciding on the next steps in his career"

That's all I've heard about his future post two years at another team.

[Sixerscan]

Like Mik said, I don't think it does. I think pretending that Harden allows them to compete is much more dangerous than waiting for another opportunity (whether that's trading Simmons or otherwise) and making changes around the roster to get it in a better position.

I agree the 2019 team was better than this one. It would probably be better than the team with Harden too.

Impatience and desperation keeps biting this team in the ass.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

[agiaco]

Impatience and desperation keeps biting this team in the ass.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

Your mind must be a little foggy from the tanking years if you don't remember Nerlens or Jah starting.

[Black Mage]

Impatience and desperation keeps biting this team in the ass.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

You're kididng me right? Okafor was a starter. Fultz was supposed to be a starter. Nerlens had been a starter. In each instance we held onto them too long and by the time we traded them their value was a fraction of what it was had we traded them sooner rather than later. Ben is the same deal, teams still think they could develop him, but how much longer will they believe that if he's now 5 or 6 years in the league or if teams know we cannot make it work with the pair and one has to go? The longer we wait, the less leverage we have.

Also, Embiid for the past 2-3 years has openly talked about his frustrations with certain players not making sacrifices like he and others have. Spike Eskin brought it up in his article today even.

[Sixerscan]

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

Your mind must be a little foggy from the tanking years if you don't remember Nerlens or Jah starting.

Lol I mean I try to block it out but I meant like on an actual competitive team.

[agiaco]

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

You're kididng me right? Okafor was a starter. Fultz was supposed to be a starter. Nerlens had been a starter. In each instance we held onto them too long and by the time we traded them their value was a fraction of what it was had we traded them sooner rather than later. Ben is the same deal, teams still think they could develop him, but how much longer will they believe that if he's now 5 or 6 years in the league or if teams know we cannot make it work with the pair and one has to go? The longer we wait, the less leverage we have.

Also, Embiid for the past 2-3 years has openly talked about his frustrations with certain players not making sacrifices like he and others have. Spike Eskin brought it up in his article today even.

The Fultz fiasco was so terribly mismanaged and it's compounded by the fact that he's turning things around now in Orlando. I know that the regime has since shifted over, but I truly hope that Morey is able to pull something off with Simmons before it's too late.

I like Ben Simmons. But that's the problem. I'm not enamored with him any more. He was a flashy pick. A massive guy with point guard skills. Sell high or regret it a year or two down the road. This is like a gift in their lap and they better not hand it over to another GM.

[agiaco]

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

Your mind must be a little foggy from the tanking years if you don't remember Nerlens or Jah starting.

Lol I mean I try to block it out but I meant like on an actual competitive team.

I was kind of assuming you meant that too. I think it's more that early on all three of those guys had considerably more value than they did at the time they were finally moved. Btw I searched the depth charts for those years and laughed when I saw Arnett Moultrie in there .

[eyeatoma]

Yeah gotta disagree as well Mik. Just because you don't think this will get us the championship, you should still make the move. This gets us closer than ever before. We may be able to get rid of Tobias a little later. Simmons is what he is, and he is clearly not enough. With Harden, we would lack defense, but we'd still be top 10 with Embiid manning the middle.

I'm with you Eye, sorry Mik.

Let's be objective here, would you really say a trio of Harden/Embiid/Tobias is worse than Jimmy/Embiid/Tobias?

We're already removing the ball from SImmons in the 4th quarter this year (last night he didn't touch the ball once for the last 3+ minutes of the game). So all we would need to replace Simmons with is a good wing defender who doesn't shoot. Pretty sure we could find one of those pretty cheap.

When Harden walks just like Butler did, what's your plan then?

You then have a max worth of salary to trade for someone else, or sign them.

[Sixerscan]

So has clinging onto a guy too long and by the time we do attempt to trade their value is diminished or gone and we get peanuts in return. We lost leverage trading guys like Nerlens, Okafor, Fultz, etc. I don't think Simmons is going to have the value he has now if he goes an entire season with no offensive development.

Also, I'm tired of wasting Embiid's prime waiting for Simmons to get his head screwed on straight offensively. How much longer do we really think Embiid will tolerate a lesser player constantly being catered to instead of the team catering to him?

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

You're kididng me right? Okafor was a starter. Fultz was supposed to be a starter. Nerlens had been a starter. In each instance we held onto them too long and by the time we traded them their value was a fraction of what it was had we traded them sooner rather than later. Ben is the same deal, teams still think they could develop him, but how much longer will they believe that if he's now 5 or 6 years in the league or if teams know we cannot make it work with the pair and one has to go? The longer we wait, the less leverage we have.

Also, Embiid for the past 2-3 years has openly talked about his frustrations with certain players not making sacrifices like he and others have. Spike Eskin brought it up in his article today even.

Like I said in the other post, yes they literally started games but I meant like the quality of player. Talking about those guys versus a guy the NBA Coaches have multiple times selected as one of the 24 best players in the NBA and the media selected as one of the 15 best players in the NBA several months ago is completely different. There's a baseline value there that isn't going to crater like those did.

Spike Eskin is a great example of someone who was freaking out that and his trade value declining years ago and it hasn't happened yet. If he was right years ago, we wouldn't be talking about him being able to be traded for Harden now. And Embiid would have ripped Simmons' head off at this point. Oh *but now* is when it is definitely going to happen. Ok. Seems like projecting.

By the way, go take a look at Fultz now. Trade value doesn't just go down over time.

[Black Mage]

None of those guys were even starters here let alone made an all nba team... obviously this is completely different.

How much of this "Embiid is going to get pissed about Simmons" is people projecting their own being pissed off about Simmons? I can probably find receipts of people saying that three years ago. Ditto the trade value declining stuff. Maybe it'll happen some day but at this point let's see it happen.

You're kididng me right? Okafor was a starter. Fultz was supposed to be a starter. Nerlens had been a starter. In each instance we held onto them too long and by the time we traded them their value was a fraction of what it was had we traded them sooner rather than later. Ben is the same deal, teams still think they could develop him, but how much longer will they believe that if he's now 5 or 6 years in the league or if teams know we cannot make it work with the pair and one has to go? The longer we wait, the less leverage we have.

Also, Embiid for the past 2-3 years has openly talked about his frustrations with certain players not making sacrifices like he and others have. Spike Eskin brought it up in his article today even.

Like I said in the other post, yes they literally started games but I meant like the quality of player. Talking about those guys versus a guy the NBA Coaches have multiple times selected as one of the 24 best players in the NBA and the media selected as one of the 15 best players in the NBA several months ago is completely different. There's a baseline value there that isn't going to crater like those did.

Spike Eskin is a great example of someone who was freaking out that and his trade value declining years ago and it hasn't happened yet. If he was right years ago, we wouldn't be talking about him being able to be traded for Harden now. And Embiid would have ripped Simmons' head off at this point. Oh *but now* is when it is definitely going to happen. Ok. Seems like projecting.

By the way, go take a look at Fultz now. Trade value doesn't just go down over time.

I mentioned Spike because he noted that Embiid has indeed complained multiple times over the past 2-3 years about Ben refusing to make any sacrifices for the team to make life easier for Embiid. I get that his views aren't often accurate, but he does cover the team and is aware of what is said by players to media.

[Sixerscan]

You're kididng me right? Okafor was a starter. Fultz was supposed to be a starter. Nerlens had been a starter. In each instance we held onto them too long and by the time we traded them their value was a fraction of what it was had we traded them sooner rather than later. Ben is the same deal, teams still think they could develop him, but how much longer will they believe that if he's now 5 or 6 years in the league or if teams know we cannot make it work with the pair and one has to go? The longer we wait, the less leverage we have.

Also, Embiid for the past 2-3 years has openly talked about his frustrations with certain players not making sacrifices like he and others have. Spike Eskin brought it up in his article today even.

Like I said in the other post, yes they literally started games but I meant like the quality of player. Talking about those guys versus a guy the NBA Coaches have multiple times selected as one of the 24 best players in the NBA and the media selected as one of the 15 best players in the NBA several months ago is completely different. There's a baseline value there that isn't going to crater like those did.

Spike Eskin is a great example of someone who was freaking out that and his trade value declining years ago and it hasn't happened yet. If he was right years ago, we wouldn't be talking about him being able to be traded for Harden now. And Embiid would have ripped Simmons' head off at this point. Oh *but now* is when it is definitely going to happen. Ok. Seems like projecting.

By the way, go take a look at Fultz now. Trade value doesn't just go down over time.

I mentioned Spike because he noted that Embiid has indeed complained multiple times over the past 2-3 years about Ben refusing to make any sacrifices for the team to make life easier for Embiid. I get that his views aren't often accurate, but he does cover the team and is aware of what is said by players to media.

To be clear, Spike isn't a journalist or anything he's the program director at WIP and has a Sixers podcast.

I would say that's a pretty clear over-exaggeration of what Embiid has publicly said about Simmons not shooting. I'm sure you can find some quote from months or years ago where you can infer something like that, but that's kind of the point. This isn't a new issue that we have any reason to think is coming to the forefront in the immediate future. If you're right though hopefully Embiid goes to Morey and talks about it privately before making it a public thing.