Tank World Order

[KL78192020]

Or just wait another 25 years to trade for the next playoff MVP that comes around in Kawhi. Or clear space for the next Giannis just like the last time we signed that big time free agent in Hedo! Lets do that instead!

Or just trade for Harden, who is really good and wants out. This argument failed the first time you proposed it in another thread, and it hasn't gotten better. You're suggesting that the Raptors waited 25 years for Kawhi Leonard to become available

Yep, lol.

Stars are switching teams in an unprecedented rate these days. We see every off-season a disgruntled superstar or a superstar with an expiring contract get traded.

Just in the past 3 seasons we've seen Westbrook, KD, Lebron, Butler, Hayward, Oladipo, George, Kawhi, Kyrie, Paul, Horford, Kemba, Conley, Holiday etc. all switch teams. Some of those guys have already switched teams twice.

This isn't like 15 years ago where superstars rarely left their teams.

You're clueless. You want to talk about those players in factual detail, well lets look at the facts.

I'm fine with trading, but for those players that got traded well lets see how the trades happened:

Kawhi traded for Demar/Jakob two lottery picks
Butler traded (Minny) for Lavine/Markanen/Dunn three lottery picks.
Butler traded (Sixers) for Saric/Covington one lottery pick
George traded (OKC) for Oladipo/Sabonis two lottery picks
George traded (Clips) for SGA/Gallo/picks two lottery picks plus a whole bunch of picks.
Anthony Davis traded for Ingram/Lonzo/Hart two lottery picks.

Chris Paul when he was highly valued in his prime was traded from the Pelicans for Chris Kaman/Eric Gordon/Al Farouq Aminu. Three lottery picks.

Pretty much all the good talent that got traded was done using lottery picks.

As for KD and Lebron or guys at their caliber, well they're never signing here. Even 2nd teir talent like Horford/Walker/Hayward won't sign here. Raptors are only getting overpaid garbage in Hedo Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll, two biggest free agent signings in franchise history.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Unfortunate blow for TWO with Siakam not playing. Julius Randle was already going to feast, so hopefully he can keep it up.

[Ado05]

We're really tanking.

I knew Masai would never truly leave us on the treadmill

[KL78192020]

Unfortunate blow for TWO with Siakam not playing. Julius Randle was already going to feast, so hopefully he can keep it up.

Is the team actually better defensively with him out? I thought he was supposed to be good at defense.

[Basketball_Jones]

Siakam sitting was a big lift for the team. They would probably make the playoffs if he sits out the entire year. Not good for TWO, let’s hope he suits up and launches more bricks next game.

[anotherhomer]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

[mdenny]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

[anotherhomer]

proper development makes a difference

[PhilBlackson]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

[C_Money]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

They had one good lottery pick in Kristaps Porzingiz and ended up trading him for Dennis Smith Jr LOL!

[djsunyc]

let's tank to draft a superstar like rj barrett...

[mdenny]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

They had one good lottery pick in Kristaps Porzingiz and ended up trading him for Dennis Smith Jr LOL!

Yep. And ppl want to say 'well they didn't draft well'.

Almost every team in the league would've taken Barrett where the knicks did. It's a crapshoot. There's very seldom any variation in team's top 5 ranking across the league. It's luck more than anything else. Good drafting only comes into play after the top 10 and becomes more and more relevant the later the draft goes.

[mdenny]

this game convinced me a tank is still needed

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

So the answer is yes. The raptors lottery picks would have been more or less exactly the same as what the knicks picked. It's not like the Knicks were picking random names in the top 10. There's a league-wide consensus on those rankings and teams pretty much stick with them that high in the draft.

[Pooh_Jeter]

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You think if you could just copy nbadraft.net these teams would invest immense resources into scouting and development? There is so much in depth research and homework that goes into evaluating each prospect.

The reality is that if you identify and hit on one of the top guys it's franchise altering. Look at the Mavs and Luka. Look at the Celtics with Tatum and Brown. The top prospects are where you find the MVP calibre talent.

You've spouted this "The Knicks have 10 lottery picks" like it is some sort of argument ender. Of those 10, they drafted 4 and one is currently injured. The rest of those 10 are just cast off guys they have signed or traded for. Turns out an awful franchise has made some bad picks, who knew?

[mdenny]

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You think if you could just copy nbadraft.net these teams would invest immense resources into scouting and development? There is so much in depth research and homework that goes into evaluating each prospect.

The reality is that if you identify and hit on one of the top guys it's franchise altering. Look at the Mavs and Luka. Look at the Celtics with Tatum and Brown. The top prospects are where you find the MVP calibre talent.

You've spouted this "The Knicks have 10 lottery picks" like it is some sort of argument ender. Of those 10, they drafted 4 and one is currently injured. The rest of those 10 are just cast off guys they have signed or traded for. Turns out an awful franchise has made some bad picks, who knew?

There's an objective way to measure this. Go look at the projected top 5 picks before the draft and compare them to the actual top 5 picks taken year by year and see how much difference there is.

You're making an argument that is unfalsifiable: drafting is the best way to build a championship team.

When counter-example are provided showing this not to be the case it's "well they didnt draft well'.

[Chandan]

On the contrary....watching the knicks and the 10 lottery picks on their roster should convince us that tanking doesnt work.

You'd sacrifice an entire season to have our own version of RJ Barrett?

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

you guys can't decide between "Masai is gOD, 100 stats in scouting" or "drafting is a crap shoot".

are you saying Masai is only good at gauging low end talents with limited ceiling, like the ones you find in 2nd round or undrafted?

[mdenny]

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

you guys can't decide between rather Masai is gOD, 100 stats in scouting or drafting is a crap shoot.

are you saying Masai is only good at gauging low end talents with limited ceiling, like the ones you find in 2nd round or undrafted?

I'm saying that "good drafting" is defined by mid to late first round picks and second rounders. Lottery picks are mostly a crapshoot.

How can one team be better than another at drafting in the top 5 when every team has the same top 5 ranking?

[Chandan]

^even if that were true. a lottery pick could still yield potential result that couldn't be replicated by a well used 2nd round pick.

in a year nobody should care about: a shorten season, LA dominance, 4/5 championship core gone, new core has shown no growth, playing in Tampa... etc

why make chump changes in the draft this year when you could have made some mking money?

[Pooh_Jeter]

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You think if you could just copy nbadraft.net these teams would invest immense resources into scouting and development? There is so much in depth research and homework that goes into evaluating each prospect.

The reality is that if you identify and hit on one of the top guys it's franchise altering. Look at the Mavs and Luka. Look at the Celtics with Tatum and Brown. The top prospects are where you find the MVP calibre talent.

You've spouted this "The Knicks have 10 lottery picks" like it is some sort of argument ender. Of those 10, they drafted 4 and one is currently injured. The rest of those 10 are just cast off guys they have signed or traded for. Turns out an awful franchise has made some bad picks, who knew?

There's an objective way to measure this. Go look at the projected top 5 picks before the draft and compare them to the actual top 5 picks taken year by year and see how much difference there is.

Even if mock drafts somehow operated at 100% accuracy in terms of who teams picked what does that even prove? The point of a draft is to get the best player, which a mock draft isn't necessarily trying to assess. So GM's should just pick based on who other people think they will pick and not who they think is the best prospect?

Yes, the top 5 may be fairly easy to predict in terms of who goes, but again, the main point is making the right pick. It kind of matters if you pick Hasheem Thabeet before James Harden.

https://www.a1squad.com/post/what-nba-mock-draft-is-the-most-accurate

The mock drafts aren't even that accurate either. In the same way the top high school rankings aren't indicative of who will end up the best pros, Chad Ford's "Best Available" doesn't hold much water.

[mdenny]

Do you think Masai & Co would draft the same way??

You think Masai wouldn't have drafted Barrett where the knicks did? There's a reason why there's usually mo surprises in the top 5 and very few in the top 10. Every team has pretty much the same ranking that high in the draft give or take a couple minor exceptions.

The real differences between team prospect rankings occur in the later picks and the second round.

A cab driver with the latest issue of sports illustrated could draft in the top 5 and have just as good a chance as anyone else. It's luck.

you guys can't decide between "Masai is gOD, 100 stats in scouting" or "drafting is a crap shoot". :lol:

are you saying Masai is only good at gauging low end talents with limited ceiling, like the ones you find in 2nd round or undrafted?

Here's an illustration:

The 3 teams with the top 3 picks all rank the top 3 players exactly the same.

Pick one is a bust. Pick two is an allstar. But pick 3 ends up being a franchise player.

Ppl want to say the team that picked 3rd is the best drafting team. But that's NOT the case at all. There is no discernable way to rank the teams in drafting ability because their rankings were identical. The third team just got lucky because they happened to fall in the correct position in the sequencing of picks.

All 3 teams would have ended up with the franchise player if they picked 3rd.