Is RJ Barrett a beast?

[br7knicks]

Ive heard this several times tonight amongst many Knick fans and especially non Knick fans


I wouldn't call him a bust. Hes def a rotation player

But at a top 3 pick. I dont see the star potential off these last 4 games

Do you see star potential in Luka, Dame Lillard and Donovan Mitchell off the last 4 games?

Lmao give me a break with this. Idk how many times people have to say it over and over. He’s 20 and he’s not in the best spacing situation right now to succeed. He’s working on his shot and ignoring his elite trait of driving because he’s in his own head.

If people here thought this kid was going to come out and dominate straight away and be a #1 option, then that’s on them.
Can’t call RJ a bust but give every excuse in the world to Knox, Frank, Mitch & DSJ.

feels like this board is a lot like ESPN. the overreactions to every little thing needs to be covered.

*RJ takes a good **** - obviously future HoFer.
*Knox wins a fortnite game - let's discuss his transformation as a PG

[MaseInYourFace]

also, a thing that doesn't get mentioned enough is that he's often very bad at defense. that all-nba superstar norman powell was chefing him up all night. i'm not even sure because he's not trying hard, it might be a physical limitation.

Powell’s no all star but he’s a good scorer. He’s definitely capable of making a lot of opposing guards look bad. That being said RJ could definitely improve on defense. I don’t feel he’s very bad at it but he could and should be better.

[ellobo]

I can see him having a Jeff Green/Marvin Williams kind of career. Guys who got drafted high, seemed to have the tools to be better than they turned out to be, had long careers as rotation players, but never put it together to be a high level starter.

Not a bust, but a disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

[seren]

Too early to judge RJ. Too early to judge any rookie contract player. How can you evaluate when he is stuck playing with Payton?

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Too early to judge RJ. Too early to judge any rookie contract player. How can you evaluate when he is stuck playing with Payton?

And the rest of this no talent team of backups.

[iLLmatic860]

Too early to judge RJ. Too early to judge any rookie contract player. How can you evaluate when he is stuck playing with Payton?

Good point Frank is way more willing passer to RJ

But idk Even when RJ tries creating his own shot by playing bully ball it looks so ugly

Every time he shoots. I know its not going in.

Also Randle was never a good fit. You cant have 2 slashers with only one shooter on the floor

We will never beat zone defense with Payton, Rj and Randle on the floor

[N Y K]

proof none of you deserve a goddamn thing

[N Y K]

[Phish Tank]

not a bust, but maybe not a star. Doesn't mean he's a bust. It's not like you could arguably say we should have drafted someone else over him

[SelbyCobra]

I can see him having a Jeff Green/Marvin Williams kind of career. Guys who got drafted high, seemed to have the tools to be better than they turned out to be, had long careers as rotation players, but never put it together to be a high level starter.

Not a bust, but a disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

I've seen these types of names - Jeff Green, Marvin Williams, Andre Iguodala, Richard Jefferson, etc. - thrown out in the hopes of tempering expectations of RJ but still remaining positive.

Green:


Williams:


Iguodala:


Jefferson:

[Chanel Bomber]

He has looked really bad to start the season.

But I'm not judging him when he's sharing the court with Payton.

It doesn't resemble an NBA team when these two share the court, and the starting line-up only highlights RJ's weaknesses and wastes his strengths. We're putting him in a position to fail with these absurd one-shooter line-ups. Unsurprisingly, RJ played well yesterday with Rivers and Knox the few minutes he was freed of Payton.

I know RJ only makes matters worse with regards to spacing, and he needs to contribute and be efficient in any situation. But the Knicks should use his skill set as a PNR ball-handler in a functional offense with better shooting around him, Randle and Mitch. That's his game right now.

[HarthorneWingo]

Disclaimer: Not a Knicks Fan

I honestly think Barrett is a good nba player with alot of potential, just not with his mindset and the NY requirements. Barrett thinks he is an alpha (he isnt) and NYK craves a star (he is not). Instead of trying to Iggy Phi edition, he should try being Iggy GSW addition or a Richard Jefferson type. Barrett has fire complementary skills like slashing and passing, he sucks with alpha skills like shooting and dribbling.

However, with his draft position/ his nonsense hype, his "mentaliy" and NY wanting for him to be a star with the 3rd pick, I feel like he wont be sucessful. Instead of trying to primarily create, he should work off secondary motion and try to score (slashing) and pass while expending most of his effort and attention defensively.

I just do not think RJ is in a position to succeed?

Agree or Disagree?

I’m going to disagree based on my eye test. But if we’re looking to try to salvage this pick and give RJ some room to grow, then my recommendation would be to try bringing him off the bench with the second unit.

[HarthorneWingo]

RJ is Corey Maggette reincarnated. Sucks at having actual basketball skill.. his man attribute is that he’s aggressive.. most times too aggressive for the good of the team

Corey Maggette is a great comparison.

That was cold

[Chanel Bomber]

Disclaimer: Not a Knicks Fan

I honestly think Barrett is a good nba player with alot of potential, just not with his mindset and the NY requirements. Barrett thinks he is an alpha (he isnt) and NYK craves a star (he is not). Instead of trying to Iggy Phi edition, he should try being Iggy GSW addition or a Richard Jefferson type. Barrett has fire complementary skills like slashing and passing, he sucks with alpha skills like shooting and dribbling.

However, with his draft position/ his nonsense hype, his "mentaliy" and NY wanting for him to be a star with the 3rd pick, I feel like he wont be sucessful. Instead of trying to primarily create, he should work off secondary motion and try to score (slashing) and pass while expending most of his effort and attention defensively.

I just do not think RJ is in a position to succeed?

Agree or Disagree?

I’m going to disagree based on my eye test. But if we’re looking to try to salvage this pick and give RJ some room to grow, then my recommendation would be to try bringing him off the bench with the second unit.

How about we bench Payton first, see how it goes with more shooting around RJ, and if RJ keeps struggling then bring him off the bench?

You might not like his game and that's perfectly fair, but I think the organization should be more invested in him than Payton. It's not like Payton is Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry, where the resume as a winning player should take precedence.

[SmashMouthRod]

As an observer, It seems that Barrett's role as an wing/spacer isnt the best/same role he played when he was viewed as a lottery pick/potential multi-year all-star. He played a Penny Hardaway like point guard role at Duke where he ran the offense with Zion and Cam Reddish. He probably is best suited as a on-ball playmaker with shooting and rim running around him. He wasn't a great shooter at Duke but he made good decisions with the ball in his hands under coach K. In my opinion the Knicks probably shouldnt have paired Barrett with other point guards especially who arent great shooters (Smith JR; Payton) because it simply created redundancy in the backcourt. In other words Payton is in Barrett's way.

Coach Thibs should experiment with Barrett at as the primary facilitator or point guard with Burks in the backcourt. Knox's shooting is valuable and can be used as a 3 or stretch four and probably fits well next to Toppin at the five. The GM probably needs to make a deal or two with Randle and/or Robinson to acquire additional shooting and defense. Maybe a M. Robinson for L. Markkanen with Chicago would help both teams. Maybe Randle for Gary Trent Jr, Gary Harris or helps both teams.

Barrett/ Quickley
Harris or Trent Jr / Burks
Knox
Markkanen
Toppin/Robinson/Noel

[HarthorneWingo]

Disclaimer: Not a Knicks Fan

I honestly think Barrett is a good nba player with alot of potential, just not with his mindset and the NY requirements. Barrett thinks he is an alpha (he isnt) and NYK craves a star (he is not). Instead of trying to Iggy Phi edition, he should try being Iggy GSW addition or a Richard Jefferson type. Barrett has fire complementary skills like slashing and passing, he sucks with alpha skills like shooting and dribbling.

However, with his draft position/ his nonsense hype, his "mentaliy" and NY wanting for him to be a star with the 3rd pick, I feel like he wont be sucessful. Instead of trying to primarily create, he should work off secondary motion and try to score (slashing) and pass while expending most of his effort and attention defensively.

I just do not think RJ is in a position to succeed?

Agree or Disagree?

I’m going to disagree based on my eye test. But if we’re looking to try to salvage this pick and give RJ some room to grow, then my recommendation would be to try bringing him off the bench with the second unit.

How about we bench Payton first, see how it goes with more shooting around RJ, and if RJ keeps struggling then bring him off the bench?

You might not like his game and that's perfectly fair, but I think the organization should be more invested in him than Payton. It's not like Payton is Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry, where the resume as a winning player should take precedence.

Because I don’t think that’s the issue. I watched the game last night and RJ was getting open looks in rhythm and was still bricking away.

Read robillionaire’s post (I don’t know if it’s in this thread or the PG thread). RJ is the problem.

[Chanel Bomber]

As an observer, It seems that Barrett's role as an wing/spacer isnt the best/same role he played when he was viewed as a lottery pick/potential multi-year all-star. He played a Penny Hardaway like point guard role at Duke where he ran the offense with Zion and Cam Reddish. He probably is best suited as a on-ball playmaker with shooting and rim running around him. He wasn't a great shooter at Duke but he made good decisions with the ball in his hands under coach K. In my opinion the Knicks probably shouldnt have paired Barrett with other point guards especially who arent great shooters (Smith JR; Payton) because it simply created redundancy in the backcourt. In other words Payton is in Barrett's way.

Coach Thibs should experiment with Barrett at as the primary facilitator or point guard with Burks in the backcourt. Knox's shooting is valuable and can be used as a 3 or stretch four and probably fits well next to Toppin at the five. The GM probably needs to make a deal or two with Randle and/or Robinson to acquire additional shooting and defense. Maybe a M. Robinson for L. Markkanen with Chicago would help both teams. Maybe Randle for Gary Trent Jr, Gary Harris or helps both teams.

Barrett/ Quickley
Harris or Trent Jr / Burks
Knox
Markkanen
Toppin/Robinson/Noel

I think it's a bit early to overhaul the entire roster specifically to build around RJ, although we need better shooting regardless since it's 2021, but you're spot-on in your evaluation of RJ.

RJ is a pick-and-roll player, not an ISO player and definitely not a spot-up shooter.

He's at his best when he can go downhill and attack the basket off the pick-and-roll with a lob threat and shooters around him. He was very effective in this role at Duke. He was also great when he could push the ball in transition and apply pressure on opposing defenses.

But no the Knicks are falling for Elfrid Payton's fool's gold stats (the man who drafted him in Orlando still works for the Knicks), and are wasting RJ's skill set in the process, while exposing his weaknesses (which, granted, he needs to work on). They're playing him in line-ups with 0 spacing, mostly playing him off-ball, and with a point guard who plays at a snail's pace and grinds the offense to a halt.

It's shameful.

[ellobo]

I can see him having a Jeff Green/Marvin Williams kind of career. Guys who got drafted high, seemed to have the tools to be better than they turned out to be, had long careers as rotation players, but never put it together to be a high level starter.

Not a bust, but a disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

I've seen these types of names - Jeff Green, Marvin Williams, Andre Iguodala, Richard Jefferson, etc. - thrown out in the hopes of tempering expectations of RJ but still remaining positive.

Green:


Williams:


Iguodala:


Jefferson:

Sure, Marvin Williams and, especially Jeff Green, are more explosive leapers than RJ has shown. My comparison was more based on overall impact and career trajectory vs. draft position than specific parallels in their talents or skills.

Richard Jefferson and Andre Iguodala I'd put in a higher tier (especially Iguodala for his defense and playmaking), and they were not top 5 draft picks like Williams, Green and RJ. I wouldn't really call either of them disappointments.

[JXL]

5 games in, a 20 year old player with little to no shooting around him, and he's called a bust.

Y'all must be the gun to the temple "Why is everything miserable" Knicks fans. The lowest totem pole of insecurity.

[Chanel Bomber]

I’m going to disagree based on my eye test. But if we’re looking to try to salvage this pick and give RJ some room to grow, then my recommendation would be to try bringing him off the bench with the second unit.

How about we bench Payton first, see how it goes with more shooting around RJ, and if RJ keeps struggling then bring him off the bench?

You might not like his game and that's perfectly fair, but I think the organization should be more invested in him than Payton. It's not like Payton is Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry, where the resume as a winning player should take precedence.

Because I don’t think that’s the issue. I watched the game last night and RJ was getting open looks in rhythm and was still bricking away.

Read robillionaire’s post (I don’t know if it’s in this thread or the PG thread). RJ is the problem.

Yet the same can be said about Payton.

He's bricking shots too when he does take them, sometimes not even hitting the rim. Defenders sag of him completely to crowd the paint. Worse, a lot of times he just randomly stays around the lane after cutting to the basket, which hurts our spacing even more. At least RJ has the decency to stay behind the 3-point line and take the 3 to maintain some semblance of spacing, while Payton ruins it completely.

So no, while I understand your criticism of RJ, you're falling for Payton's BS if you think he's a priority over RJ.