Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[payitforward]

You're entitled to that opinion, but those who voted for RoY and the all-rookie team clearly don't share your opinion.

Nunn was a 24 y/o rookie that accrued counting stats...

It's not even quite that, b/c his "counting stats" weren't particularly good.

It's that he started off hot & that he was a surprise. People like a surprise. The way they like stories like the Prince & the Pauper. That stuff is entertaining, makes people feel good. Nothing wrong with that. It just doesn't win games. Doesn't make the team better.

What does make the team better is... "counting stats." Keep in mind that the ultimate stat is win-loss record. That's a counting stat, & every win is just a counting stat as well.

[nate33]

Another trade proposal on the Beal front by this year’s trade deadline:

Would Sacramento be interested in a Beal for Hield+Halliburton+a 2021 unprotected 1st+2nd seconds (Memphis 2021and worst of Det/Chi 2022)?

Should they have to trade Beal, I could see Tommy and Leonsis going for something like this. Hield is signed until 2024 on a declining contract, allowing the Wiz to keep on the playoff hunt (which Leonsis likes...). Halliburton could be good pick up, able to play off both Westbrook and Hield. And the 2021 Sac pick would probably be in the 12-19 range (on top of our own pick).

Personally, I would be keener on Herro+Achiuwa trade as I believe Herro has more star potential than Halliburton and Achiuwa has great potential as a switchy 4-5 defensive stopper.

I think I might like that Sacramento deal better. I love Halliburton and that 2021 pick is likely a lotto pick given how difficult the West is. And Hield isn't chopped liver. The guy can shoot.

I might try and hold out for one more 1st round pick. As bad as that organization is, any distant future pick has a change of being a real prize.

But does Sacramento extend such an offer for Beal when they wouldn't have much assurance that Beal would stay?

I'm also a big Haliburton fan. Perhaps there's another way to get him - something like even up for Rui. Or - thinking their Marvin Bagley could use a change of scenery much like our Troy Brown could - make it Haliburton and Bagley for Rui and TBJ. We throw in Jerome Robinson to make the salaries fit. See, that's the value of Robinson - his contract can make trades work.

I'm sure Sacramento likes Haliburton as much as you and I do. I don't think they'd trade him for Hachimura

[Ruzious]

I think I might like that Sacramento deal better. I love Halliburton and that 2021 pick is likely a lotto pick given how difficult the West is. And Hield isn't chopped liver. The guy can shoot.

I might try and hold out for one more 1st round pick. As bad as that organization is, any distant future pick has a change of being a real prize.

But does Sacramento extend such an offer for Beal when they wouldn't have much assurance that Beal would stay?

I'm also a big Haliburton fan. Perhaps there's another way to get him - something like even up for Rui. Or - thinking their Marvin Bagley could use a change of scenery much like our Troy Brown could - make it Haliburton and Bagley for Rui and TBJ. We throw in Jerome Robinson to make the salaries fit. See, that's the value of Robinson - his contract can make trades work.

I'm sure Sacramento likes Haliburton as much as you and I do. I don't think they'd trade him for Hachimura

Rui was picked higher than Hailburton in a draft that was considered better. And I don't think his value has declined since he was drafted.

[trast66]

Troll
But the pells do have the assets
I'd say ingram , hayes, lewis jr, and ball
2021 first lakers, 2021 seconds from cavs and wiz
2022 first pels, 2022 second cavs.
2023 first lakers
2024 second pels
2025 first bucks
For
Beal , Burtans , and Robinson.

The only trade partner for Brad I can find is the Pelicans.

Brad and Jerome for Steven Adams and Kira Lewis.

We get our 2021 and 2023 2nd rounders back.

Also 2021 NOP 1st round pick, 2022 Lakers 1st round, 2024 Pels/Bucks 1st round.

Not sure if serious, or trolling.

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Of course my trade is bad for Wiz, but I really don’t think anything much better available. pels draft assets not so great upon further inspection. Maybe the Thunder have better draft capital but Beal not on their timeframe. Denver won’t trade Porter. Miami or NJ? Not much there of value to trade.

[trast66]

The Pelicans are not trading Ingram to get Beal.

[Dat2U]

I'm also a big Haliburton fan. Perhaps there's another way to get him - something like even up for Rui. Or - thinking their Marvin Bagley could use a change of scenery much like our Troy Brown could - make it Haliburton and Bagley for Rui and TBJ. We throw in Jerome Robinson to make the salaries fit. See, that's the value of Robinson - his contract can make trades work.

I'm sure Sacramento likes Haliburton as much as you and I do. I don't think they'd trade him for Hachimura

Rui was picked higher than Hailburton in a draft that was considered better. And I don't think his value has declined since he was drafted.

The only chance at Haliburton was to draft him at 9. I'm sure the Kings view him as untouchable. Maybe you get another shot at him in 7-8 years?

[SA37]

I'm also a big Haliburton fan. Perhaps there's another way to get him - something like even up for Rui. Or - thinking their Marvin Bagley could use a change of scenery much like our Troy Brown could - make it Haliburton and Bagley for Rui and TBJ. We throw in Jerome Robinson to make the salaries fit. See, that's the value of Robinson - his contract can make trades work.

I'm sure Sacramento likes Haliburton as much as you and I do. I don't think they'd trade him for Hachimura

Rui was picked higher than Hailburton in a draft that was considered better. And I don't think his value has declined since he was drafted.

Are you not too high on Hachimura or is it just that you like Haliburton more?

[SA37]

Spoiler:

This doesn't affect the question of Beal's value in a trade. If you are limited in what you can offer, you are limited in what you can get...

...Turn each of the trades around & it's a bargain, an example of the opposite of your point. I.e. if junk gets me a good player, what does a good player get me? This is the problem w/ cherry-picking illustrations of a point.

No, of course not. I wasn't suggesting Washington should accept, only why I thought Miami's offer wouldn't be much better than what I said.

As for the trades I used as examples, it was just to illustrate the types of trades Riley has made in the past and why I don't think Miami will offer more.

That's not an "objective reality" of any kind! Not about Kendrick Nunn as a basketball player. The objective reality is in the numbers he put up. They weren't good, they were bad...Kendrick Nunn is not a good NBA basketball player.

So you're saying he was runner-up for RoY and made the All-rookie team because he put up bad numbers and he is a bad basketball player? 15ppg 3a 3b on 44 fg% and 35 3pt% in 29mpg are bad numbers?

You're entitled to that opinion, but those who voted for RoY and the all-rookie team clearly don't share your opinion.

First off, my post was excessively cranky -- I apologize.

Secondly, you & I are both entitled to our opinions, to be sure! But, I'm not talking about my opinion. I don't have an opinion about Kendrick Nunn.

What I have are his numbers. Have you actually looked at them?...Anyway, you know as well as I that popularity contests don't tell you anything -- who's a better player, Nunn or Herro? How come Nunn not Herro was the runner up for RoY? Why was Nunn a first-team all-rookie instead of Herro?

No worries! I didn't mean for this to turn to such a deep convo about Nunn, but the main point I wanted to make was that he wasn't some project who hadn't seen an NBA game or put up numbers in garbage time; he started most of the season, played ~30mpg and scored 18 or more points in about 1/3 of his games (and he clearly wasn't the main scoring option) for a Miami team that was fighting for home court in the playoffs. Like most rookies, Nunn hit a wall as teams started to pay attention to him and eventually Dragic took over the starting spot.

Still, the accolades Nunn got represent the type of season he had, not whether he is the most talented or most promising. He may even turn out to be a 1-hit wonder, that is completely possible. I do think Nunn has the offensive skills (he can shoot the ball, he can get his own shot) and bball IQ to get regular minutes in the NBA, but whether he actually has a long career is going to depend on his ability to defend and to master a skill (playmaking or scoring).

Anyway, good luck against the Bulls tonight and have a good New Year's!

[payitforward]

I hope Nunn is a huge success -- I love it when undrafted guys succeed in the league. This year I was very high on Nate Hinton & Nathan Knight, both of whom are, IMO, going to be very good NBA players.

[PerkinsFor3]

Brooks for a bag of expirer chips.

[WallToWall]

If we are nowhere near making the playoffs, and I suspect that will be the case, then:
1. Westbrook, at the trade deadline, should net us at least one 1st round pick and/or player with up side. Some team making a push will need a scorer even if to just shore up their bench.
2. Beal, at the trade deadline, should net us at least two 1st round picks + players with up side. Some team will need a 2nd or 3rd scorer, and 3point threat.
3. Bertans will net us a protected 1st + some young player with up side. By the trade deadline, he will be in shape. Some team will need a 3 point sniper as they make a push in the playoff.

I count at least four 1st round picks, and that is good for a rebuilding team. This could be our most plausible/probable future.

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[Meliorus]

I'm sure Sacramento likes Haliburton as much as you and I do. I don't think they'd trade him for Hachimura

Rui was picked higher than Hailburton in a draft that was considered better. And I don't think his value has declined since he was drafted.

The only chance at Haliburton was to draft him at 9. I'm sure the Kings view him as untouchable. Maybe you get another shot at him in 7-8 years?

I'm also sure the Kings view Haliburton as untouchable. He is already an advanced stats darling. Rui on the other hand is an outdated dinosaur to many teams imo. And yes I think his value has declined.

[J-Ves]

If we are nowhere near making the playoffs, and I suspect that will be the case, then:
1. Westbrook, at the trade deadline, should net us at least one 1st round pick and/or player with up side. Some team making a push will need a scorer even if to just shore up their bench.
2. Beal, at the trade deadline, should net us at least two 1st round picks + players with up side. Some team will need a 2nd or 3rd scorer, and 3point threat.
3. Bertans will net us a protected 1st + some young player with up side. By the trade deadline, he will be in shape. Some team will need a 3 point sniper as they make a push in the playoff.

I count at least four 1st round picks, and that is good for a rebuilding team. This could be our most plausible/probable future.

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I disagree with your 1st point. Westbrook is old and expensive, and if he can’t elevate the Wizards to a fringe playoff team then I don’t see him having much trade value. I think we are stuck with him for at least the next two years.

Bertans sucks right now, but I do think he will return to form eventually. The length of his contract might scare some teams away, but ultimately a team will want his shooting ability.

[Frichuela]

Realistically, Beal has to be traded by the deadline so we can get a decent package to kick start the rebuild.

Bertans and Westbrook should not be the priority. They can be part of the start of the rebuild to help the youngsters.

On the trade board they were suggesting a Beal trade with Miami and OKC, where we net Herro, Achiuwa plus a 2025 and 2027 1st rounders. I’d be ok with that. I think Herro has all star potential.

[nate33]

Realistically, Beal has to be traded by the deadline so we can get a decent package to kick start the rebuild.

I agree.

Others have suggested that we should wait until the offseason, that way we can know exactly what 2021 pick(s) we would be getting back in a Beal trade. But we can't overlook that Beal has a team option in Summer 2022. Teams are going to value him more if they can have him for two playoff runs rather than just one.

I'm not saying we have to trade Beal. But if we do trade him, it should be by the Trade Deadline this year.

[BigA]

They say that a Herro can save us. The Zards shouldn't stand here and wait.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Atlanta?

What about Beal to the Hawks for Hunter, Okongwu, Snell (expiring), 2021 1st round pick?

Wizards get cap relief, young talent, and defense.

Build on a young frontcourt of Avdija, Bonga, Hunter, Hachimura, Wagner, Bryant, Okongwu.

Use our 2 1st round picks (ours & Atlanta's) to draft a new backcourt, along with Mathews, Troy Brown Jr, Winston.

Maybe keep Bertans (unless you get a great offer) and Neto as vets off the bench. Deal Westbrook to a contender for expirings.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7375485

[pcbothwel]

Realistically, Beal has to be traded by the deadline so we can get a decent package to kick start the rebuild.

I agree.

Others have suggested that we should wait until the offseason, that way we can know exactly what 2021 pick(s) we would be getting back in a Beal trade. But we can't overlook that Beal has a team option in Summer 2022. Teams are going to value him more if they can have him for two playoff runs rather than just one.

I'm not saying we have to trade Beal. But if we do trade him, it should be by the Trade Deadline this year.

Nate, if course all things being equal Beal has more value with 2 Post season runs instead of 1. That's never the argument.
My argument is that a trade during the season provides for less flexibility with salary matching and more ambiguity about the value of the draft picks.

My other argument is the GSW angle. No team is going to send GSW a better player & fit than Beal while taking a rebuilding package. Their offer is probably Wiseman and both their 2021 1st (And Wiggins ). So any package would need to beat that I dont see how any team could off that.

The Knicks are one of the few teams that might feel comfortable taking on the risk and offering up anything as "Profound" with their picks and the Mavs 21/23 picks. With their cap space, a massive TPE for us could provide an avenue to garner more value. But they have plenty of cap space and I could see them preferring Derozan or Dipo to keep their powder dry for another acquisition.

No other team looks to have the top end assets that I would be looking for

***Side Note about the Knicks. Its early of course, but Noel looks awful offensively. 52% TS with a AST:TOV ratio of 1:5

[nate33]

Atlanta?

What about Beal to the Hawks for Hunter, Okongwu, Snell (expiring), 2021 1st round pick?

Wizards get cap relief, young talent, and defense.

Build on a young frontcourt of Avdija, Bonga, Hunter, Hachimura, Wagner, Bryant, Okongwu.

Use our 2 1st round picks (ours & Atlanta's) to draft a new backcourt, along with Mathews, Troy Brown Jr, Winston.

Maybe keep Bertans (unless you get a great offer) and Neto as vets off the bench. Deal Westbrook to a contender for expirings.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7375485

Atlanta only has a bunch of middling assets. They have a lot of them to be sure, but none of them look like star players or picks high enough to land a star player. I don't think they could put together a package that would interest me.

[DCZards]

If I’m looking to make a trade with Atl the player I’m targeting (other than Okongwu) is Reddish. It’s becoming apparent that he’s going to be an outstanding NBA player—maybe even an all-star.