Is RJ Barrett a beast?

[Clyde_Style]

When I watch him I just don’t really enjoy it.. nothing about his game is exciting and most of the time it looks like a struggle.

Maaan, this is the realest assessment of him I've seen.

It's exactly what I felt watching a specific play against the TOR scrubs in garbage time tonight where he drove left, went up for the authoritative slam, and looked like he got rejected by the rim. Just no natural lift/explosion at the level you were expecting watching the move start from a super young, former third overall pick in the draft.

I said something similar in the game thread, i.e. I have rarely enjoyed watching RJ play so far this season.

He is not a graceful or particularly dynamic athlete. I said he was like an angry dump truck that wants to run you over.

That could be neither here nor there if he finds his shot and starts to refine his game, but it could also lead to him being a high usage player who doesn't warrant the amount of ball time he requires to operate.

I've never bet against RJ due to his evident desire to compete and what I believe is a good work ethic. I will continue to support him because of this and because he came into the league young with room to improve.

But I can see how his fan support could wane after two seasons if he does not become an efficient player. He's not really that enjoyable to watch individually so he will have to become a winning player to keep the fan base with him.

[8516knicks]

Looking at his HIGHs so far in the league -- a bit shocking he's never done better than 5/8 as a 3'd pick wing and last year shot around 30% from 3 and this year 12.5% while still taking the most overall shots on the team/game and basically 3rd in 3 point attempts. The Rebound, assist and steal highs show promise on paper, but for a wing in today's NBA to not be able to shoot and basically go mostly to his left (strong) hand...is this really someone to build a team around? Even Knox had a 30pt game his first year.

Game Highs
Season Age Tm Lg MP FG FGA 3P 3PA 2P 2PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS GmSc
2019-20 19 NYK NBA 46:05 10 21 5 8 9 17 9 13 6 10 15 9 6 2 5 5 27 24.4
2020-21 20 NYK NBA 38:45 11 19 3 8 8 13 6 8 2 8 8 5 2 0 4 4 26 23.2
Career 46:05 11 21 5 8 9 17 9 13 6 10 15 9 6 2 5 5 27 24.4

[blueNorange]

the iq of the average knicks fan

rj shooting the ball well in 4 preseason games = superstar
rj shooting the ball well in game 1 = top 1 player in the nba
rj not shooting the ball well the next 4 games = is rj barrett a bust?

[vallen]

I dont think hes a bust, but I dont think hes part of any long term solution for this Franchise. Rotation player.

[Clyde_Style]

This season is an evaluation season for Thibs and Rose

As of now, I do not expect them to know which players they will be fully committed to long-term. The FO dropped hints they wanted players that fit around RJ, but that doesn't mean they know he is a franchise player. It means he was the # 3 pick last year and they are going to continue to give him the best chance at success.

By this off-season the Knicks will know which players among Randle, RJ, Mitch, Knox, Obi and IQ they want to actually build this club around.

That means RJ is playing for his future here just like every other guy on the roster.

It is also why I won't be too emotionally invested in any guy this year since any single one of them could be used in a trade package either during the season or the off-season.

There is absolutely nothing solid or fixed about this long-term roster yet

Do I think RJ is a franchise player?

I have for a moment or two believed he could be, but even if he were that would mean he's a building block. I don't think he is a transcendent player that can put a club on his back and carry it. He may not even be a # 1 option in his prime. So whatever he becomes, he may not be whom you build around specifically. Thus, I expect him to be a good piece in some capacity.

[DOT]

Me coming back to this thread after RJ has a couple good games:

[Im Coming Home]

He passes, plays d, drives. I would encourage him to keep taking shats. Mo shats. Get it down, build confidence, don’t give up. Same with Frank, if he ever gets on the floor.

His passing is overrated. The last two games RJ’s had 5 assists and 5 turnovers. For his career, he averages 2.6 assists and 2.2 turnovers. That sucks.

his assist numbers aren't gonna be high when he's always playing with Elfrid "Dribble the air out of the f*cking ball" Payton.

[SelbyCobra]

RJ is Corey Maggette reincarnated. Sucks at having actual basketball skill.. his man attribute is that he’s aggressive.. most times too aggressive for the good of the team

Corey Maggette is a great comparison.

That was cold

If you like it, it's even more damning than you think. Maggette was another guy whose main youthful attribute was playing above the rim with high-end athleticism and NBA size.

[god shammgod]

Me coming back to this thread after RJ has a couple good games:

he will have some good games. some games the shots will fall. they fell for payton once even. but how many bad ones in-between those will he have ? it's the ratio. honestly it's just a bad backcourt. you can blame payton, you can blame rj, you can claim they'd both look better without the other, sure. but it's both of them. they're not very good.

[BrOnXKing1]

For a guy who is an average athlete, he needs to be a knockdown shooter. He's reminding me more and more of Evan Turner. Hope I'm wrong.

[DOT]

he will have some good games. some games the shots will fall. they fell for payton once even. but how many bad ones in-between those will he have ? it's the ratio. honestly it's just a bad backcourt. you can blame payton, you can blame rj, you can claim they'd both look better without the other, sure. but it's both of them. they're not very good.

It's a combination of, we're not really using him the right way as well as he's just bricking completely wide open shots

He really isn't a consistent player right now, and he wasn't last year either. The question is, so what?

I don't expect guys to be good right away, and we really shouldn't. Even Obi, who was touted as being super-NBA ready cause he was older I expect to struggle for at least this year, maybe next year too. But that shouldn't mean we should give up on them or call them busts

I get why people are frustrated, but this is how it is. A lot of really good players take a few years to get up to speed, and most of the time, there will be a player better than the one you pick that gets drafted afterwards. That's how life works. It just seems like a large contingent of fans feel entitled to great players but don't want to put the work in or be patient to develop guys

RJ may never be a superstar. And that's okay. He's not a good player right now, and that's okay too. I just don't get this entitlement that some fans have to where we're supposed to turn up our noses at any player who isn't great out the gates. It's just stupid. Let the kids develop, and if they're not good, they're not good. But 4 games into a sophomore year is way too soon to call them a bust, especially when he has shown flashes of greatness, even as recently as 3 games ago.

[SelbyCobra]

Me coming back to this thread after RJ has a couple good games:

He's going to have good games, though. That was the story of his rookie season, and he's done it at an even greater extreme in this 4 game microcosm to start this year.

He even does it intragame - he'll have an absolutely atrocious start/finish to a game, and in the postgame we'll point out and dream on the other part where he was balling out.

The problem he has at this point is that it doesn't even out to make an average player with the upside of great if he can lessen the lows. He was a terrible offensive player last year, and he's been awful on the whole this season. The problem as I see it isn't the statistical production to this point through four games (though it is undeniably awful), it's that he's showing that same trait of bottoming out at really extreme depths when he's simply "not good".

I'll always be rooting for him, but he's got to do something about his troughs not being worst-player-in-the-league type stuff. Young players will undoubtably be more inconsistent, but the depth of voluminous futility to which RJ sinks on his downswings is unique and worrisome in my opinion.

[god shammgod]

he will have some good games. some games the shots will fall. they fell for payton once even. but how many bad ones in-between those will he have ? it's the ratio. honestly it's just a bad backcourt. you can blame payton, you can blame rj, you can claim they'd both look better without the other, sure. but it's both of them. they're not very good.

It's a combination of, we're not really using him the right way as well as he's just bricking completely wide open shots

He really isn't a consistent player right now, and he wasn't last year either. The question is, so what?

I don't expect guys to be good right away, and we really shouldn't. Even Obi, who was touted as being super-NBA ready cause he was older I expect to struggle for at least this year, maybe next year too. But that shouldn't mean we should give up on them or call them busts

I get why people are frustrated, but this is how it is. A lot of really good players take a few years to get up to speed, and most of the time, there will be a player better than the one you pick that gets drafted afterwards. That's how life works. It just seems like a large contingent of fans feel entitled to great players but don't want to put the work in or be patient to develop guys

RJ may never be a superstar. And that's okay. He's not a good player right now, and that's okay too. I just don't get this entitlement that some fans have to where we're supposed to turn up our noses at any player who isn't great out the gates. It's just stupid. Let the kids develop, and if they're not good, they're not good. But 4 games into a sophomore year is way too soon to call them a bust, especially when he has shown flashes of greatness, even as recently as 3 games ago.

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Me coming back to this thread after RJ has a couple good games:

He's going to have good games, though. That was the story of his rookie season, and he's done it at an even greater extreme in this 4 game microcosm to start this year.

He even does it intragame - he'll have an absolutely atrocious start/finish to a game, and in the postgame we'll point out and dream on the other part where he was balling out.

The problem he has at this point is that it doesn't even out to make an average player with the upside of great if he can lessen the lows. He was a terrible offensive player last year, and he's been awful on the whole this season. The problem as I see it isn't the statistical production to this point through four games (though it is undeniably awful), it's that he's showing that same trait of bottoming out at really extreme depths when he's simply "not good".

I'll always be rooting for him, but he's got to do something about his troughs not being worst-player-in-the-league type stuff. Young players will undoubtably be more inconsistent, but the depth of voluminous futility to which RJ sinks on his downswings is unique and worrisome in my opinion.

I see a kid who gets frozen out STILL and the last two games...just going for his whenever he can. He's pressing because after running up and down the court only to see Randle/Payton/Bullock playing keep away is probably getting to him.

He is four games in to his second year...and third HC...and we are asking if he's a bust when many think it was a joke he didn't make all rookie team?

[god shammgod]

Me coming back to this thread after RJ has a couple good games:

He's going to have good games, though. That was the story of his rookie season, and he's done it at an even greater extreme in this 4 game microcosm to start this year.

He even does it intragame - he'll have an absolutely atrocious start/finish to a game, and in the postgame we'll point out and dream on the other part where he was balling out.

The problem he has at this point is that it doesn't even out to make an average player with the upside of great if he can lessen the lows. He was a terrible offensive player last year, and he's been awful on the whole this season. The problem as I see it isn't the statistical production to this point through four games (though it is undeniably awful), it's that he's showing that same trait of bottoming out at really extreme depths when he's simply "not good".

I'll always be rooting for him, but he's got to do something about his troughs not being worst-player-in-the-league type stuff. Young players will undoubtably be more inconsistent, but the depth of voluminous futility to which RJ sinks on his downswings is unique and worrisome in my opinion.

I see a kid who gets frozen out STILL and the last two games...just going for his whenever he can. He's pressing because after running up and down the court only to see Randle/Payton/Bullock playing keep away is probably getting to him.

He is four games in to his second year...and third HC...and we are asking if he's a bust when many think it was a joke he didn't make all rookie team?

because they look at his raw numbers and with his high usage it seemed like he was putting up some stats. the advanced stats said he was terrible. i imagine they say the same this year. if anything, he needs to learn to fit in more and choose his spots better. not to be catered to more.

[Jalen Bluntson]

he will have some good games. some games the shots will fall. they fell for payton once even. but how many bad ones in-between those will he have ? it's the ratio. honestly it's just a bad backcourt. you can blame payton, you can blame rj, you can claim they'd both look better without the other, sure. but it's both of them. they're not very good.

It's a combination of, we're not really using him the right way as well as he's just bricking completely wide open shots

He really isn't a consistent player right now, and he wasn't last year either. The question is, so what?

I don't expect guys to be good right away, and we really shouldn't. Even Obi, who was touted as being super-NBA ready cause he was older I expect to struggle for at least this year, maybe next year too. But that shouldn't mean we should give up on them or call them busts

I get why people are frustrated, but this is how it is. A lot of really good players take a few years to get up to speed, and most of the time, there will be a player better than the one you pick that gets drafted afterwards. That's how life works. It just seems like a large contingent of fans feel entitled to great players but don't want to put the work in or be patient to develop guys

RJ may never be a superstar. And that's okay. He's not a good player right now, and that's okay too. I just don't get this entitlement that some fans have to where we're supposed to turn up our noses at any player who isn't great out the gates. It's just stupid. Let the kids develop, and if they're not good, they're not good. But 4 games into a sophomore year is way too soon to call them a bust, especially when he has shown flashes of greatness, even as recently as 3 games ago.

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

Ask again in 4 more games.

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

When I watch him I just don’t really enjoy it.. nothing about his game is exciting and most of the time it looks like a struggle.. I’ll be honest I don’t think he’s the worst player ever so he’s not a complete bust in that sense, but I have a hard time seeing him being a multi time all star at this point which is ideally what you want from your number 3 pick in a draft. So he is a bust in that sense to me

This. Very few superstars in today’s game wait 3-4 years to show they belong. I’m not really sure what Barrett does or doesn’t do well. He’s so inconsistent from game to game. Gun to my head add him to the recent string of busts for us including Frank and Knox. Doesn’t matter who’s drafting the Knicks just have really bad luck drafting and even worse scouting.

[DOT]

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ?

And 5 games into his 2nd year is way too soon to be saying he can't improve his outside shooting

If he doesn't improve, you're right, he won't be worth much, but it annoys me that people are assuming he won't and treating it as fact. People already begging to trade him for Harden while saying he ain't worth sh*t. I give every player at least 3 seasons before judgement, and even that's too quick in some cases, but some people can't even wait 1 season before giving up on a guy. Lord help us if Obi and Quickley aren't John Collins and CJ McCollum their first game back.

[god shammgod]

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ?

And 5 games into his 2nd year is way too soon to be saying he can't improve his outside shooting

If he doesn't improve, you're right, he won't be worth much, but it annoys me that people are assuming he won't and treating it as fact. People already begging to trade him for Harden while saying he ain't worth sh*t. I give every player at least 3 seasons before judgement, and even that's too quick in some cases, but some people can't even wait 1 season before giving up on a guy. Lord help us if Obi and Quickley aren't John Collins and CJ McCollum their first game back.

i edited this post to say, we're gonna be saying the same things about obi. if obi can't hit outside shots, we'll be instantly wondering what is he really worth. the bigger headache is the combination of all these guys on one team. we keep doing this.

[elchengue20]

I think at least he could develop in a good 3rd or 4th option for a Playoff team.Harrison Barnes calibeer of player or maybe Nets Richard Jefferson.

The chance of him being much more than look small. Still early to tell tough, give him more time.