2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Qwigglez]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

[bwgood77]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

His rebounding is still up per 36, by over 15%. The only thing lacking is scoring, but if you look at points per shot, he's only dropped from 1.22 pps to 1.14, so it's really not significant. His trips to the line per 36 are up too by 20% so that accounts for a lot of it if not all of it.

He simply hasn't taken as many shots...that's the main reason.

Booker's points per shot have actually dropped from 1.45 to 1.24 which is a bigger % drop, and his free throw attempts have almost been cut in half, from 7.3 to 4.

Of course evaluating either guy too much after 5 games is ridiculous but people want to seem to really go all in on Ayton for whatever reason.

[Bogyo]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

[Adrao]

I don't hate Ayton, I think he is doing his job and I like it but I think he can give a bit more.
He is not making use of all his skills and he is playing soft sometimes. I don't expect him to be an all star center but he is better than this.

[alamin330]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

And Booker is avg 20 ppg. What’s your point? It’s been 5 games and we are winning? Obviously Ayton, CP3 and Monty are working on something for the future and not just for pretty stats.

DA is doing what he’s been asked to do. We are getting a rhythm. Bridges and Cam, Crowder and the bench are keeping us from losing games as DA, Booker and even a little of CP3 are trying to find their rhythm.
As you can see DA has not been taking his go to shots or even getting the ball in his spots for that money elbow jumper he has. His attempts are down because it seems that they are simply working on the pick and roll aspect and not the pick and pop yet.
If you haven’t noticed yet Monty is methodical and sticks to his agenda no matter what. He believes in something and is willing to be patient until it manifests.
I believe once CP3 and Ayton figure out the PnR part of the game we will see a lot more of pick and fade and other Ayton scoring opportunities.

[Bogyo]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

And Booker is avg 20 ppg. What’s your point? It’s been 5 games and we are winning? Obviously Ayton, CP3 and Monty are working on something for the future and not just for pretty stats.

DA is doing what he’s been asked to do. We are getting a rhythm. Bridges and Cam, Crowder and the bench are keeping us from losing games as DA, Booker and even a little of CP3 are trying to find their rhythm.
As you can see DA has not been taking his go to shots or even getting the ball in his spots for that money elbow jumper he has. His attempts are down because it seems that they are simply working on the pick and roll aspect and not the pick and pop yet.
If you haven’t noticed yet Monty is methodical and sticks to his agenda no matter what. He believes in something and is willing to be patient until it manifests.
I believe once CP3 and Ayton figure out the PnR part of the game we will see a lot more of pick and fade and other Ayton scoring opportunities.

Congrats, that is the weakest respons I've ever gotten here. I point out everything that is wrong with him, and you come back with a weak-azz "what's your point" becouse someone ELSE is having a bit slower than usual start? GTFO

[alamin330]

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

And Booker is avg 20 ppg. What’s your point? It’s been 5 games and we are winning? Obviously Ayton, CP3 and Monty are working on something for the future and not just for pretty stats.

DA is doing what he’s been asked to do. We are getting a rhythm. Bridges and Cam, Crowder and the bench are keeping us from losing games as DA, Booker and even a little of CP3 are trying to find their rhythm.
As you can see DA has not been taking his go to shots or even getting the ball in his spots for that money elbow jumper he has. His attempts are down because it seems that they are simply working on the pick and roll aspect and not the pick and pop yet.
If you haven’t noticed yet Monty is methodical and sticks to his agenda no matter what. He believes in something and is willing to be patient until it manifests.
I believe once CP3 and Ayton figure out the PnR part of the game we will see a lot more of pick and fade and other Ayton scoring opportunities.

Congrats, that is the weakest respons I've ever gotten here. I point out everything that is wrong with him, and you come back with a weak-azz "what's your point" becouse someone ELSE is having a bit slower than usual start? GTFO

Lol. Another hypocrite on the suns board. What’s new.
Booker shooting 70% from the line. Cp3 shooting 38% fg. Lol. Get over yourself bozo. It’s 5 games

[SunsLyf3]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

Yet he keeps getting double teamed by teams and teams keep leaving shooters open thanks to him. His usage is the lowest it's been in his 3 seasons and is only taking 8 shots per game. WS/48, Assist % and rebound % up. TO% down. Free throw rate up with less shots. All of that with elite defense.

[Bogyo]

And Booker is avg 20 ppg. What’s your point? It’s been 5 games and we are winning? Obviously Ayton, CP3 and Monty are working on something for the future and not just for pretty stats.

DA is doing what he’s been asked to do. We are getting a rhythm. Bridges and Cam, Crowder and the bench are keeping us from losing games as DA, Booker and even a little of CP3 are trying to find their rhythm.
As you can see DA has not been taking his go to shots or even getting the ball in his spots for that money elbow jumper he has. His attempts are down because it seems that they are simply working on the pick and roll aspect and not the pick and pop yet.
If you haven’t noticed yet Monty is methodical and sticks to his agenda no matter what. He believes in something and is willing to be patient until it manifests.
I believe once CP3 and Ayton figure out the PnR part of the game we will see a lot more of pick and fade and other Ayton scoring opportunities.

Congrats, that is the weakest respons I've ever gotten here. I point out everything that is wrong with him, and you come back with a weak-azz "what's your point" becouse someone ELSE is having a bit slower than usual start? GTFO

Lol. Another hypocrite on the suns board. What’s new.
Booker shooting 70% from the line. Cp3 shooting 38% fg. Lol. Get over yourself bozo. It’s 5 games

And who the hell was praising Bookers or CP's statistics or season so far? Most of us saying it's been Bridges, (Crowder in 2 games) and the bench. Yet you keep talking about them when the discussion was SheAndre (as it has been for some mysterious reason for the past 2 years as well ). Get a grip, and go give the big dummy a nice BJ when you can find him playing his PS5 somewhere, maybe he'll learn to use his balls then - if he has any.
(For the record i was about your opinion so far, you started name calling - which is also a good indicator of you, and your takes, mitch. Conversation is finished with you on my part. Go blow a dead goat)

[bigfoot]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

I'm convinced that Ayton is unlikely to average 20 points per game anytime soon. His offense just isn't refined enough to be able to create for himself. I think that is a requirement to able to average 20+. Hopefully, Monty's plan is to turn him into a defensive beast first and let his offensive skills develop slowly. I'd be fine with that progression. Sadly, over five games, a small sample, Ayton has regressed in so many offensive categories ... FG%, FT%, minutes played, and dunks (only 2 in 5 games where he has averaged 2 per game in the past). He's had poor hands as of late too.

We might have 3 more years before Ayton really comes into his own.

[Qwigglez]

Teams are crashing on DA which is leading to open shots for our shooters. The scouting report is about to change since we are winning and teams are likely going to stay home on the shooters which will give DA room to operate in the paint. I think DA is actually a very high IQ player, very methodical and he noticed things instantly which is why we see him pass the ball quickly when he gets double teamed. He likely won’t average 20 a game this season but I wouldn’t be surprised if he strings together a few high scoring games before opposing teams make the adjustments again. We have a very good basketball team here and I’m surprised there are still several folks out there who manage to only find the negatives in the way the Suns are playing.

[Qwigglez]

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Also wanted to point out this defensive play by Ayton in the second sequence starting at 20 seconds. First off, not to anyone’s surprise but he immediately backs up five feet when Gobert gets the ball at the top of the key because Gobert can’t shoot. However what I really liked is that Bojan did that same exact fake pass earlier in the game on Ayton that resulted in a foul. This time, Ayton didn’t bite and he got the nice block. It might not seem like much to others but to me it proves that Ayton quickly adjust and learns players tendencies.

[Saberestar]

I think that’s a given at this point.

Ayton probably gets a Saric type contract at best. Maybe a lil more at $10M-$11M/yr at the most. I don’t think he will have that big a market either, most teams with cap space when he hits free agency already have Cs that are better.

After the Andrew Wiggins debacle, I think most teams are done paying max deals to top overall draft picks for their “potential” and not their actual performance.

I think that he will get and deserves a bigger contract than Saric.

Personally I think that $72M/4 years would be a fair contract for both sides and I would extend his contract this summer at that price. $18M per year is what Myles Turner is getting, and I think he is as good as Turner.

Turner is a better shot blocker and 3p shooter, but Ayton is a better rebounder and better scorer in the paint...so all in all for now I think they have about the same value in the league.

I would give him more money per year IF he makes a leap in some area before the end of this season, and that is a real possibility, but I need to see it. In that case $90M/4 years would makes sense and we would avoid to go to RFA.

Obviously I would not give Ayton the max or anything close to the max, that is not even a serious option at this point.

Who knows how much these guys will make halfway through their rookie contracts? Ayton is probably near top 5 in the rookie class right now. After last year RAPTOR projected his 5 year value to be $135, or about $27 million a year.

I have no idea what he will make. I wouldn't guess right now either because I have no idea what he will look like after another 140-145 games. He's only played in about 110 so far...and will probably make more improvements in his next 145 than he has in his first 110, and he's made vast improvements already.

$27 million seems kind of like a lot, but it probably won't be that much in 2 years...it's also what Steven Adams makes this year. The guys who make more than that are Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Drummond and Gobert. Vucevic is at $26. So right now his value should probably be less than that. There are not really any other bigger name Cs out there though...a guy like Myles Turner, who isn't nearly as good, who averaged 13 and 7 in his 4th year, makes $18 million a year.

Obviously talks about his possible extension and contract negotiations will start earlier than in the summer of 2022.

Look at this year class of rookie extensions, most of good players have been extended. Fultz, Fox, Isaac,White,Tatum, Adebayo,Mitchell, Anunoby, Kennard...so yeah, it's pretty common to agree on a contract after their third rookie season and that moment is not that far away.

And regarding Myles Turner...he doesn't average too many rebounds but he is a fantastic shot blocker and rim protector. That's is why I said that his value around the league can be similar to Ayton and he can be a reference for his next contract.

[MrMiyagi]

Teams are crashing on DA which is leading to open shots for our shooters. The scouting report is about to change since we are winning and teams are likely going to stay home on the shooters which will give DA room to operate in the paint. I think DA is actually a very high IQ player, very methodical and he noticed things instantly which is why we see him pass the ball quickly when he gets double teamed. He likely won’t average 20 a game this season but I wouldn’t be surprised if he strings together a few high scoring games before opposing teams make the adjustments again. We have a very good basketball team here and I’m surprised there are still several folks out there who manage to only find the negatives in the way the Suns are playing.

He's not the most natural player, but he's a pretty damn good student. Like I said in the first game, it felt like his offensive fouls were poor implementations of advice he'd gotten from CP3 about getting in defender's way while he's moving to free up our guards and wings. He's since gotten better about pinning opponents without fouling. His pick and rolling needs improvement, but I think he'll get the hang of it.

[Saberestar]

Teams are crashing on DA which is leading to open shots for our shooters. The scouting report is about to change since we are winning and teams are likely going to stay home on the shooters which will give DA room to operate in the paint. I think DA is actually a very high IQ player, very methodical and he noticed things instantly which is why we see him pass the ball quickly when he gets double teamed. He likely won’t average 20 a game this season but I wouldn’t be surprised if he strings together a few high scoring games before opposing teams make the adjustments again. We have a very good basketball team here and I’m surprised there are still several folks out there who manage to only find the negatives in the way the Suns are playing.

I agree. I think teams will adjust at some point and Ayton will have better opportunities to score in the paint.

It's great that we have so many options on offense now.

[Bogyo]

Teams are crashing on DA which is leading to open shots for our shooters. The scouting report is about to change since we are winning and teams are likely going to stay home on the shooters which will give DA room to operate in the paint. I think DA is actually a very high IQ player, very methodical and he noticed things instantly which is why we see him pass the ball quickly when he gets double teamed. He likely won’t average 20 a game this season but I wouldn’t be surprised if he strings together a few high scoring games before opposing teams make the adjustments again. We have a very good basketball team here and I’m surprised there are still several folks out there who manage to only find the negatives in the way the Suns are playing.

I hope you are right, we'll see. It would be better for this club, and our sanity as well. If anyone predicted that this is how he starts off the season we'd think that he was crazy. In the offseason, the thinking was him taking the next step, becoming an automatic 20/10 guy, etc... especially after we got CP. I assume the team will gel a bit more (especially our "big 3"), but I don't think I can trust him after what I've seen/heard/read about him in the past 3ish years. Hope I'm wrong.

[Bogyo]

Not sure why Ayton is getting a lot of heat, it's not like we are losing games because of him. Sure it would be nice for him to average 20/10 but it's not needed right now. No need to force anything.

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

I'm convinced that Ayton is unlikely to average 20 points per game anytime soon. His offense just isn't refined enough to be able to create for himself. I think that is a requirement to able to average 20+. Hopefully, Monty's plan is to turn him into a defensive beast first and let his offensive skills develop slowly. I'd be fine with that progression. Sadly, over five games, a small sample, Ayton has regressed in so many offensive categories ... FG%, FT%, minutes played, and dunks (only 2 in 5 games where he has averaged 2 per game in the past). He's had poor hands as of late too.

We might have 3 more years before Ayton really comes into his own.

Did you really think that after he averaged 18 last year, and we got CP this summer? Honest question.

[bwgood77]

Becouse he not only doesn't average 20 points, but is down to 10 PPG from last years 18 or even the rookie years 16. Playing with the point god, who everyone thought will make him better. And it's not only stats, he looks downright lost and useless on offense. He can not score, he can't set a hard screen, almost always slips it too early (sometimes too late) his rolls are weak, can't play the PnR, not in the good position to catch lobs ( at least last year it was Rickys fault ) fumbles the ball more than he used to. As usual he does not get to the FT line, and tries to finess everything or pass out from the paint. He has a 47% FG% as a C. Is there anything else you can suck at on a basketball court on offense? Not sure about that. And NONE is going for him right now.

And Booker is avg 20 ppg. What’s your point? It’s been 5 games and we are winning? Obviously Ayton, CP3 and Monty are working on something for the future and not just for pretty stats.

DA is doing what he’s been asked to do. We are getting a rhythm. Bridges and Cam, Crowder and the bench are keeping us from losing games as DA, Booker and even a little of CP3 are trying to find their rhythm.
As you can see DA has not been taking his go to shots or even getting the ball in his spots for that money elbow jumper he has. His attempts are down because it seems that they are simply working on the pick and roll aspect and not the pick and pop yet.
If you haven’t noticed yet Monty is methodical and sticks to his agenda no matter what. He believes in something and is willing to be patient until it manifests.
I believe once CP3 and Ayton figure out the PnR part of the game we will see a lot more of pick and fade and other Ayton scoring opportunities.

Congrats, that is the weakest respons I've ever gotten here. I point out everything that is wrong with him, and you come back with a weak-azz "what's your point" becouse someone ELSE is having a bit slower than usual start? GTFO

Not really...the key point there is that it's way too early to assess how someone is doing in comparison to prior years after 5 games. And only assessing guys by PPG is pretty weak. He's improved in every other area.

[bwgood77]

Teams are crashing on DA which is leading to open shots for our shooters. The scouting report is about to change since we are winning and teams are likely going to stay home on the shooters which will give DA room to operate in the paint. I think DA is actually a very high IQ player, very methodical and he noticed things instantly which is why we see him pass the ball quickly when he gets double teamed. He likely won’t average 20 a game this season but I wouldn’t be surprised if he strings together a few high scoring games before opposing teams make the adjustments again. We have a very good basketball team here and I’m surprised there are still several folks out there who manage to only find the negatives in the way the Suns are playing.

Yeah, eventually teams will double Ayton less if we keep shooting well and his % will go back up. But I've always cared more about his defense. Running your offense through a C is not really effective. As a finisher or roller yes...but those wishing of the days of old, wanting him to post up and try to create his own shot against a defender or two are behind the times..that is about the least efficient way to try and run an offense, teams and most people have learned.

[irish22022]

The only reason to be down on DA because he was #1 overall draft pick.

That is what it is. As a current basketball player where we don't need to bother where we picked him because here he is, he's completely fine and serving a purpose. As others have mentioned, chris paul still has DA in his quiver, there just hasn't been much of a reason to pull that arrow out when we are getting all these open 3s. Good teams win in a variety of ways throughout a long season. We'll see DA usage go up and then back down and then back up. He's a good basketball player.