Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
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Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.
MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
ecuhus1981 wrote:NyCeEvO wrote:Wow, Kyrie is clearly off. It’s pretty safe to say he’s in a slump. I hope he finds other ways to contribute offensively until his touch comes back.
I wouldn't say a slump yet, but I take your point.
Before this series, Irving was red hot from all levels. Atlanta has strategically cooled him off, and he's going to have to counter the counter. Other assistant coaches will scout and pick up on the effectiveness of the Hawks' strategy against him.
One of the many reasons that I lamented Spencer's injury was that it made Kyrie easier to stop, since he's bringing up the ball more often AND looking for his own shot. I thought that TLC's 3&D would do the most to help our starters, and it still may. It's too early to change it now, we can give him a bit more time to adapt. But gosh, he certainly hasn't wowed anyone so far with this golden opportunity.
Maybe we need a tough-nosed defender in the 1st unit, who can also bring up the ball and give Irving a break. Where ever shall we find such a player????
therealbig3 wrote:I agree that we're overreacting to a 6 game stretch where we're not 6-0. Like, we're 3-3 after 6 games. Things could be A LOT worse.
Also, we don't go from being a championship contender to a team that now needs significant roster improvement all of a sudden just because Dinwiddie is out. If we needed him that much to be a championship contender, we probably weren't one in the first place.
Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...
DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp
Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.
PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.
Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...
DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp
Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.
PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.
Sharcm1 wrote:
I disagree. Just watching the games you can see the glaring issues with DJ. Even Durant and Irving are starting to get on him. Rebounding is a huge issue. He is supposed to be the big banger and he is getting his butt kicked. His lack of foot speed is an issue on defense and rebounding. He doesn’t make up for it on the offensive end.
Allen has his weaknesses but at least his effort makes up for some of it. He has work to do but at least he tries. Dj too often just stands there
MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...
DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp
Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.
PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.
Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?
Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:
Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...
DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp
Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.
PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.
Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?
Both.
DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble
MrDollarBills wrote:Meanwhile, the Cavs are beating Atlanta in the 4th qtr right now.
The Nets need to get their act together. Yesterday was an embarrassment. Kevin Durant can't be the only guy to show up against a good team. Things need to change quickly.
MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?
Both.
DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble
Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming
MGrand15 wrote:I think we're overreacting a lot. Atlanta is good. We put up a stinker after New Years and they punished us. Outside of that, our 2nd unit has been terrible and I'm still overall happy with the team play.
Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:
Both.
DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble
Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming
He has a high PER because 99% of his FG are dunks (which isnt a bad thing but it inflates his PER). His turnovers are up, his blocks are down, his DRTG is down his BPM/RPM are down. he has struggled defensively in most of these games. there really is no drop off from DJ to Allen or vice versa right now. Allen can change that
MrDollarBills wrote:Prokorov wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming
He has a high PER because 99% of his FG are dunks (which isnt a bad thing but it inflates his PER). His turnovers are up, his blocks are down, his DRTG is down his BPM/RPM are down. he has struggled defensively in most of these games. there really is no drop off from DJ to Allen or vice versa right now. Allen can change that
100% of Jordan's field goals are dunks. That's not a good explanation as to why Allen's PER is superior. A 23 PER isn't the result of underwhelming play bro.
Allen's blocks are right where they were last season per game.
Frankly I don't see how Allen has been worse than Jordan defensively. Allen challenges everything when he is in position to do so as opposed to Jordan who stands with his feet flat on the floor as guys get lay ups and dunks. Jordan stands around and gives up offensive rebounds consistently. He has been horrible.
This notion that there is no difference between Allen and Jordan is bogus. You're using these early stats to paint a false picture that defies the eye test.
Maybe Jordan's metrics look better because he's playing with an elite defender most of the time at PF...I dunno. All I know is, the Nets suck balls when Jordan is on the floor. You think that KD and Kyrie have spazzed on DJ for no reason?
Prokorov wrote:Allen has been just as poor as DJ. better offensively, worse defensively.