Had ARod Stayed at Short

Post #1 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:37 pm

and put up the same numbers as he had since moving to third, would he have gone down as the greatest player of the modern era, surpassing Bonds? Odd question, for sure, but remember that ARod was a Gold Glove-caliber* shortstop and that SS defense is valued more than LF defense (in the case of Bonds) and 3B defense (in the case of ARod now). Would that be enough to consider him better than Bonds?

*not saying Gold Gloves are a measure of definitive greatness, but they are a barometer of good-great defense.

Post #2 » by **GYBE** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:55 pm

If he changes teams, I'm assuming he may get the chance to go back to SS.

But since what you're asking is who the public/media percieves to be the best, I think a lot of people would argue for A-Rod regardless of his position. But that's more a product of Bonds dislikeability than anything.

Post #3 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:06 pm

I don

Post #4 » by **GYBE** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:29 pm

Considered by who? If we're talking about your typical young baseball stathead arguing on message boards, it could probably be conclusively answered by looking at A-Rod's career VORP versus the league-average SS, Bonds career VORP versus the league-average LF and comparing the difference. I agree with you, I think A-Rod's gap will be bigger.

But if we're talking about who is more valuable in the minds of the average baseball fan and the public consensus, I think A-Rod has even more of an advantage. If he keeps up his current pace fo a reasonable amount of years, I don't think there's any chance Bonds is the consensus better of the two.* He'll likely have the HR record, which is what most people associate with Barry's greatness. The average fan doesn't care that Barry didn't put up an OPS of less than 1.278 for four straight years. Or that he lead the league in OPS at 43. Throwing in the fact that A-Rod is essentially a SS playing out of position just further tilts the comparison in his favour.

*The one thing that could really tarnish A-Rod's legacy is if he somehow doesn't come out of his playoff funk.

Post #5 » by **TyCobb** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:51 pm

After A-Rod posts 4 seasons with an OBP over .500, then I will consider him being better than BBonds.

Post #6 » by **Bleeding Green** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:02 pm

Has A-Rod bulked up at all since moving to 3B? I thought he was one of the very best SS defenders in baseball when he moved to third, so I don't know if it would really matter.

But no, he wouldn't be as good as Bonds. Not yet, at least.

A-Rod is going to go absolutely bananas in the playoffs and shut up all these mouthbreathers who say he was bad in the 2005 and 2006 playoffs and pretend this means he's not clutch.

Another question I like is: "Had A-Rod gone to the Red Sox before the 2004 season...would the Red Sox be a dynasty? Could they realistically win 6 straight?"

brewcityboii · Post #7 » by **brewcityboii** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:17 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Has A-Rod bulked up at all since moving to 3B? I thought he was one of the very best SS defenders in baseball when he moved to third, so I don't know if it would really matter.

But no, he wouldn't be as good as Bonds. Not yet, at least.

A-Rod is going to go absolutely bananas in the playoffs and shut up all these mouthbreathers who say he was bad in the 2005 and 2006 playoffs and pretend this means he's not clutch.

Another question I like is: "Had A-Rod gone to the Red Sox before the 2004 season...would the Red Sox be a dynasty? Could they realistically win 6 straight?"

No way. 6 straight in MLB is probally never going to happen in the future IMO.
But them becoming a dynasty is a mos def possibility.
They would average like 7-8 runs a game with A-rod/manny/papi if not more.

But 6 straight come on that is insane.

Post #8 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:18 pm

Another question I like is: "Had A-Rod gone to the Red Sox before the 2004 season...would the Red Sox be a dynasty? Could they realistically win 6 straight

I presume this would mean that Manny Ramirez would have no longer been part of the team and that the Sox would have filled his spot with a more cost-controlled player a la WMP or whatever.

I don't know. ARod's production over that span was pretty close to Manny's albeit at a better position and with better defense but this would be a tit-for-tat type offensive replacement, so I don't know how much better this would make the Sox than they actually were.

JohnnyK · Post #9 » by **JohnnyK** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:43 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:*not saying Gold Gloves are a measure of definitive greatness, but they are a barometer of good-great defense.

Two words for you: Derek Jeter

And I say that as someone who likes the Yankees.

As for A-Rod, I think he has some time left to become the GOAT; as of know, he would probably already be top 10, regardless of position. Although I bet the Yankees wish they could go back in time and convince Captain Intangibles to make the switch to third and keep A-Rod at SS.

Bleeding Green wrote:Has A-Rod bulked up at all since moving to 3B?

IIRC he bulked up initially, but he lost 15 pounds again preparing for this season due to his regimen, which seems to have helped.

Some people think he might move back to SS should he leave the Yankees after the season, but I doubt it would be a wise choice to move back to the hardest position after 3 years off the job. Just doesn't look like a wise career move.

Post #10 » by **GYBE** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:56 pm

JohnnyK wrote:Some people think he might move back to SS should he leave the Yankees after the season, but I doubt it would be a wise choice to move back to the hardest position after 3 years off the job. Just doesn't look like a wise career move.

I think it depends on the team. If per se, he wanted to make me a happy man and reunite with Sweet Lou on the North Side, he'd have to play SS. We already have a star 3rd baseman and he's great on defense.