Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

[The Effect]

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

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From a modern NBA perspective, I still prefer Bamba. Who knows why he's not playing though

Theres nothing ive seen from Bamba that says hes anywhere near as good as Bagley

[The Effect]

For all the people calling for Gary Trent, just remember that next year when WeHam Sell off our 2nd round pick again or waste our 2nd rounder on another guy with a big wingspan and no nba ability

sad to see just how bad that 2018 draft was for us. Bambas done nothing in 2 years and we had the 35 pick and wasted it on no talent Melvin Frazier, next 2 picks were mitchell robinson and Gary Trent

I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

[cedric76]

I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

Healthy aminu is more valuable to our young team, just got unlucky he got injured

You guys r unbelievable, our team has been sooooo unlucky with injuries

You don't know how good this team would be if healthy

[fendilim]

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

Healthy aminu is more valuable to our young team, just got unlucky he got injured

You guys r unbelievable, our team has been sooooo unlucky with injuries

You don't know how good this team would be if healthy

Unlucky, yes. But let us not kid ourselves that the talent is really bad, with or without injuries.

Really, the only talented basketball player they acquired is only Fultz and he is damaged goods.

[Def Swami]

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

Healthy aminu is more valuable to our young team, just got unlucky he got injured

You guys r unbelievable, our team has been sooooo unlucky with injuries

You don't know how good this team would be if healthy

That you, Jeff Weltman?

[j-ragg]

Cedric must be dumbfounded we haven't won the title the last 31 straight NBA titles. Even when we had pristine health two years ago

[MagicFan101]

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

I like Bagley. How about AG/Evan for Bagley/Hield plus whatever filler and draft picks needed to make it work?

With Fox Hield and Tyrese... they are too small for the 1-3.. one of them coulf be upgraded to evan a legit 6'7 for the SF role.

I was coming here to post something like this!!

A fresh start for Bagley and Bamba might be good and both fit better on Orlando and Sacramento respectively.

AG / Evan and Hield would be a nice swap as well as we need more shooting and they could use a new PF.

[tiderulz]

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

I like Bagley. How about AG/Evan for Bagley/Hield plus whatever filler and draft picks needed to make it work?

With Fox Hield and Tyrese... they are too small for the 1-3.. one of them coulf be upgraded to evan a legit 6'7 for the SF role.

I was coming here to post something like this!!

A fresh start for Bagley and Bamba might be good and both fit better on Orlando and Sacramento respectively.

AG / Evan and Hield would be a nice swap as well as we need more shooting and they could use a new PF.

and how do we put in another PF? with Isaac, Okeke, Aminu (yes, i know not future plans). a PF that cant shoots 3's and is bad on defense.

[MagicFan101]

I like Bagley. How about AG/Evan for Bagley/Hield plus whatever filler and draft picks needed to make it work?

With Fox Hield and Tyrese... they are too small for the 1-3.. one of them coulf be upgraded to evan a legit 6'7 for the SF role.

I was coming here to post something like this!!

A fresh start for Bagley and Bamba might be good and both fit better on Orlando and Sacramento respectively.

AG / Evan and Hield would be a nice swap as well as we need more shooting and they could use a new PF.

and how do we put in another PF? with Isaac, Okeke, Aminu (yes, i know not future plans). a PF that cant shoots 3's and is bad on defense.

Tank tank tank tank tank tank

With some youth development sprinkled in.

[Xatticus]

I like Bagley. How about AG/Evan for Bagley/Hield plus whatever filler and draft picks needed to make it work?

With Fox Hield and Tyrese... they are too small for the 1-3.. one of them coulf be upgraded to evan a legit 6'7 for the SF role.

I was coming here to post something like this!!

A fresh start for Bagley and Bamba might be good and both fit better on Orlando and Sacramento respectively.

AG / Evan and Hield would be a nice swap as well as we need more shooting and they could use a new PF.

and how do we put in another PF? with Isaac, Okeke, Aminu (yes, i know not future plans). a PF that cant shoots 3's and is bad on defense.

He's a five. He's big and mobile. He has enough versatility to share the floor with some other bigs, but he really isn't a four. I don't know what his father's issues are with how he is used though and how what he said reflects what his son believes. He might style himself as something he isn't.

It isn't that he can't shoot, but rather that his shooting isn't versatile at all. It's really slow. He does most of his work in the paint, but he isn't intuitive about it. He is just a superior athlete that tries to beat his opponent to spots. If he catches the ball and he isn't wide open, he will just attack the rim, but he isn't good at it. He goes right at his defender and he can make some progress, but he struggles with contact and he doesn't make good decisions. He has a really good second jump, but his hands are a bit sketchy. He has potential as a screen-and-roll guy, but his screening has to get better and he really needs to get better at dealing with contact. Contact completely saps his explosion. He also needs to add some counters to his game. He just commits and goes full speed once he picks a side to attack and you can almost guarantee that he is going to put a shot up. He really has blinders on. He runs the floor well in transition and he will seal if he gets good position. Those are good habits.

Defensively, the effort looks alright for the most part. He has some bad habits though. He hunches and reaches instead of squatting and moving his feet. There is the potential for him to be solid defensively, but he is just so raw in so many areas and he doesn't have the IQ to make up for it. The ceiling for him is still a really good player, but he needs a lot of time and development to get there. He is a lot like a less-talented version of James Wiseman.

I think the issue you run into is that he was picked second overall. How do you deal with his extension and how is he going to be happy backing up Vucevic? Bamba has much more defensive upside, but Bamba is looking like a sunk cost for as long as Clifford is here. Bagley isn't going to instantly look like a second-overall pick with a change of scenery, so I don't think it would work out if we acquired him, but I'd much rather watch Bagley than Birch.

[The Effect]

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

Healthy aminu is more valuable to our young team, just got unlucky he got injured

You guys r unbelievable, our team has been sooooo unlucky with injuries

You don't know how good this team would be if healthy

[MagicFan101]

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

That might be true, but isnt it worth the risk?? What do we gain from selling off 2nd rounders? Why not bring in cheap talent and see if they can compete. If you hit, its a big deal, not only do you get a good player for nothing, but you can potentially get a starter\top role guy for league min, so that even helps the cap.

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

Healthy aminu is more valuable to our young team, just got unlucky he got injured

You guys r unbelievable, our team has been sooooo unlucky with injuries

You don't know how good this team would be if healthy

I bet you are the kind of person who says “thank you” or even apologizes when someone kicks you in the face.

Life sucks sometimes and you need to do something about or it’s just going to keep on keeping on. Same goes for this **** roster.

[pepe1991]

I don't know about Bagley... I think his father is just delusional.
It's problem when you have kid that was once told he is best player in that class, he averages 15 ppg in rookie year and everything is downhill from there.

But his 15ppg rookie year needs context.
He played on Kings, who, for change, that year were actually solid team. 39-43 record on West is fine. Hield, Fox, Bjelica, Bogdanovic , Barnes. That's some nice spacing. Him and WSC benefited more than anybody else. Bagley was rookie almost 15 ppg scorer and WSC was 13 ppg player, doing explicitly nothing but rim running. And pace just inflated those numbers to " good starter" outlook, when in reality, WSC is at best, backup center. Not even really good one.

And 2 years later, it's probably same case with Bagley. He, for start, isn't really center and isn't really power forward. He doesn't shoot well from outside, he is not ballhandler, his passing is abysmal ( almost twice as many turnovers than assists) and as center, he is kind a soft, doesn't set good screens and has no post moves, nor body to sustain deep postups or things like that.

Why i think he and daddy are delusional? Before draft, and going back to highschool, he was viewed as the best prospect in the world. Inflated rookie year gave impression he is some next big thing, and after injury riddled year two, going into his 3rd year, he is still kind a mediocre and it's exstension time, so they freak out.

At the end of a day to me, he is Jabari Parker of centers. There are some things they provide, like stuffing some stat sheet categories, but their socring never seems to help offense and their existence hurts defense. Is there a world for athletic center as backup? Yea. But not one that has father who thinks his son is up there with Luka and Trae.

[tiderulz]

I was coming here to post something like this!!

A fresh start for Bagley and Bamba might be good and both fit better on Orlando and Sacramento respectively.

AG / Evan and Hield would be a nice swap as well as we need more shooting and they could use a new PF.

and how do we put in another PF? with Isaac, Okeke, Aminu (yes, i know not future plans). a PF that cant shoots 3's and is bad on defense.

He's a five. He's big and mobile. He has enough versatility to share the floor with some other bigs, but he really isn't a four. I don't know what his father's issues are with how he is used though and how what he said reflects what his son believes. He might style himself as something he isn't.

It isn't that he can't shoot, but rather that his shooting isn't versatile at all. It's really slow. He does most of his work in the paint, but he isn't intuitive about it. He is just a superior athlete that tries to beat his opponent to spots. If he catches the ball and he isn't wide open, he will just attack the rim, but he isn't good at it. He goes right at his defender and he can make some progress, but he struggles with contact and he doesn't make good decisions. He has a really good second jump, but his hands are a bit sketchy. He has potential as a screen-and-roll guy, but his screening has to get better and he really needs to get better at dealing with contact. Contact completely saps his explosion. He also needs to add some counters to his game. He just commits and goes full speed once he picks a side to attack and you can almost guarantee that he is going to put a shot up. He really has blinders on. He runs the floor well in transition and he will seal if he gets good position. Those are good habits.

Defensively, the effort looks alright for the most part. He has some bad habits though. He hunches and reaches instead of squatting and moving his feet. There is the potential for him to be solid defensively, but he is just so raw in so many areas and he doesn't have the IQ to make up for it. The ceiling for him is still a really good player, but he needs a lot of time and development to get there. He is a lot like a less-talented version of James Wiseman.

I think the issue you run into is that he was picked second overall. How do you deal with his extension and how is he going to be happy backing up Vucevic? Bamba has much more defensive upside, but Bamba is looking like a sunk cost for as long as Clifford is here. Bagley isn't going to instantly look like a second-overall pick with a change of scenery, so I don't think it would work out if we acquired him, but I'd much rather watch Bagley than Birch.

his 3 pt % over 3 years says that he cant shoot from range. and i dont see a good defensive player at all

[jonbob17]

delete

[jonbob17]

Id take the chance of finding the next malcolm brogdon, bol bol, gary trent, mitchell robinson, devonte graham etc over selling it off

Like put it this way, last year we sold off our 2nd rounder to the lakers who took Talen Horton-Tucker because we didnt have space for another rookie........Is there ANYONE here who wouldnt rather have THT over say Aminu? nevermind the contracts, just from talent, potential and age, is there ANYONE here who would take aminu?
Not even saying THT is anything special (although dont tell laker fans that), but why wouldnt we want an 18 year old with his skillset over a 30 year old aminu?

Same thing this year, We sold off our 2nd rounder to the bucks who drafted Jordan Nwora, you mean to tell me he couldnt take Bone's spot on the roster?

This is why it drives me CRAZY that we sell them off ever year, the risk reward is much in our favor to take a shot on a 2nd rounder, yet we keep punting, which literally offers zero upside to the magic

I agree. I'd much rather have THT or Nwora over over Bacon or Clark. I actually really like Bone. I think he is a worthwhile project.
Here are the players available at our pick that I would rather have on our roster than Bacon:
Nwora
Yam Madar
Nico Mannion
Isaiah Joe (especially)
Skyler Mays
Cassius Winston
Cassius Stanley
Jay Scrubb
Grant RIller
Paul Reed
Jalen Harris (especially)

Really just kind of gross the way they chose to round out the back end of the roster. Bacon and Clarke, and to a lesser degree Ennis, were just so uninspiring. They would have been better off signing a 2nd rounder to a cheap rookie deal, and using the savings on someone like Justin Holiday, or anybody really in that range. Josh Jackson would look really good as our 3 right now.

The only way the Bacon and Clark signings make sense is if they were trying to be bad, which sure, that will be a good way to accomplish it, and that I can get on board with

[thelead]

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

From a modern NBA perspective, I still prefer Bamba. Who knows why he's not playing though

Theres nothing ive seen from Bamba that says hes anywhere near as good as Bagley

Have you watched Bagley though? He’s a terrible defender and below average on offense.

At least Bamba has shown flashes of elite rim protection and long range shooting.

[jonbob17]

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

From a modern NBA perspective, I still prefer Bamba. Who knows why he's not playing though

Theres nothing ive seen from Bamba that says hes anywhere near as good as Bagley

I don't know. Bagley is probably already approaching his ceiling. I'd rather have Bamba...just would prefer an organization/coach that would give him minutes.

[VFX]

Thing about Bagley is that he is 21 years old.

I wouldn’t say Bagley has hit his ceiling as a player. Sacramento isn’t exactly a terrific environment and you never know what a change of scenery could do.

That being said, I still like him better than Birch and Bamba. In the short term he can fill in at either PF/C until some players come back from injury. Long term, he would compliment Isaac well, should Orlando ever decide to move on from Vucevic. Moving Fournier/AG for Bagley/ Hield doesn’t really seem like a bad deal for either team.

Fournier loves the Kings and Aaron Gordon is from that area.

[BlueBlazer]

I haven’t watched much of Bagley but I can’t imagine he’s so bad that the FO has to fabricate some BS story about why he’s so behind schedule