Tank World Order

[Bruin]

****, Pistons keep losing too. We'll never catch them.

As long as we get a bottom 3 record we’ll have equal odds for the top pick so it’s fine for now

[Pooh_Jeter]

Id aim for a 2 year turn around. Tank hard this year, trade Lowry and Powell. If you get a great offer for Siakam or FVV even better. This off season use the cap space to take on contracts for assets. Revisit deals for the 'core' guys and see what that lands you. Next year should be a competitive team, but lottery bound from there. That 2022 off season you can literally go anywhere you want.

[mdenny]

Id aim for a 2 year turn around. Tank hard this year, trade Lowry and Powell. If you get a great offer for Siakam or FVV even better. This off season use the cap space to take on contracts for assets. Revisit deals for the 'core' guys and see what that lands you. Next year should be a competitive team, but lottery bound from there. That 2022 off season you can literally go anywhere you want.

Fred is a special case imo. I'm biased because I'm a huge supporter. His contract is going to be one of the biggest steals in the league imo. He needs to fetch a much bigger return than anyone else.

More than Kyle because he's locked in. More than Siakam because his contract is below market value.

I've been flamed for this before so anyone feel free to flame away. Fred is the most underappreciated raptor in franchise history. Game not sexy enuff for casuals.

All that **** about "he can't run an offence" when there's no offence to run. He gets clean looks for ppl. Nothing sexy but they are clean looks. Put him in a good offence and he'll run that **** like a champ. That's my take at least.

And then look at his defence. We used him to cover Ingram and Tatum the past 2 games. He is absolutely elite on D.

[bballsparkin]

Fred is a special case imo. I'm biased because I'm a huge supporter. His contract is going to be one of the biggest steals in the league imo. He needs to fetch a much bigger return than anyone else.

More than Kyle because he's locked in. More than Siakam because his contract is below market value.

I've been flamed for this before so anyone feel free to flame away. Fred is the most underappreciated raptor in franchise history. Game not sexy enuff for casuals.

All that **** about "he can't run an offence" when there's no offence to run. He gets clean looks for ppl. Nothing sexy but they are clean looks. Put him in a good offence and he'll run that **** like a champ. That's my take at least.

And then look at his defence. We used him to cover Ingram and Tatum the past 2 games. He is absolutely elite on D.

It has nothing to do with "casuals", it's the way Fred plays. A preference in style some of us like to see PG's play. He looks to score first. I'd like to see him add to his game like Lowry did over the years. He's been pretty good so far and I think his contract is fine. There's no rush to make a move with Fred.

[Syd-TK3]

Id aim for a 2 year turn around. Tank hard this year, trade Lowry and Powell. If you get a great offer for Siakam or FVV even better. This off season use the cap space to take on contracts for assets. Revisit deals for the 'core' guys and see what that lands you. Next year should be a competitive team, but lottery bound from there. That 2022 off season you can literally go anywhere you want.

The ideal trade would have been to trade siakam to the warriors and get the wolves pick or Wiseman but that ship has sailed

[mdenny]

Fred is a special case imo. I'm biased because I'm a huge supporter. His contract is going to be one of the biggest steals in the league imo. He needs to fetch a much bigger return than anyone else.

More than Kyle because he's locked in. More than Siakam because his contract is below market value.

I've been flamed for this before so anyone feel free to flame away. Fred is the most underappreciated raptor in franchise history. Game not sexy enuff for casuals.

All that **** about "he can't run an offence" when there's no offence to run. He gets clean looks for ppl. Nothing sexy but they are clean looks. Put him in a good offence and he'll run that **** like a champ. That's my take at least.

And then look at his defence. We used him to cover Ingram and Tatum the past 2 games. He is absolutely elite on D.

It has nothing to do with "casuals", it's the way Fred plays. A preference in style some of us like to see PG's play. He looks to score first. I'd like to see him add to his game like Lowry did over the years. He's been pretty good so far and I think his contract is fine. There's no rush to make a move with Fred.

Looks to score first as opposed to what? He's getting big points because there's no alternative.

Fred has never been a score-first point guard. That's not his style at all. He never led the bench mob in scoring. He was always a low-risk point guard who seeks out clean looks.

Ppl who'd be lining up to dog Fred are just looking for explanations because he's started strong. I seen someone compare him to Mike James today. That's indicative of how ridiculous the Fred-haters are willing to be rather than admit they were wrong about him. AGAIN.

[Basketball_Jones]

lol who is Fred going to feed? Siakam/Baynes/OG and most of the team can't throw the ball into an ocean. And he's not Chris Paul. Unrealistic expectations for a guy that's supposed to be a 3D backcourt player. I'll take this production currently, hoping we improve the roster so he doesn't have to score 20ppg on average/below average efficiency as long as he provides defense and clutch shooting.

[bballsparkin]

Looks to score first as opposed to what?

Fred has never been a score-first point guard. That's not his style at all.

As opposed to looking to set his teammates up? It seems to me he looks to score first quite often. And he has a tendency to hold onto the ball deep into the shot clock. Not to mention his attacks to the rims. He had a couple tonight that were heavily contested. Although they were going on.

Like I said it's a stylistic preference when it comes to Fred. Maybe it doesn't help that the Raptors two best back court players are 6 feet tall. I'd rather hold onto Pascal and think his contract is fine. Assuming he's not perpetually stuck in this offensive first option mode.

To me, ideally the Raptors look to trade Kyle to a contender. Not an easy feat but there are some options like Philly. Turn the team over to Fred and lets see what he can do. Groom Flynn. I'd trade either Pascal or OG if the price is right. I'd rather look to the 2021 draft then trade for Harden.

[Bruin]

The most ideal thing would be to tank this year and trade siakam, Lowry, and Fred at some point for young assets and try to complete a quick 2 year rebuild with the next 2 drafts. A top 5 pick in the next two drafts should be enough to start building around..

Imagine Kuminga and Bates

[bballsparkin]

lol who is Fred going to feed? Siakam/Baynes/OG and most of the team can't throw the ball into an ocean. And he's not Chris Paul. Unrealistic expectations for a guy that's supposed to be a 3D backcourt player. I'll take this production currently, hoping we improve the roster so he doesn't have to score 20ppg on average/below average efficiency as long as he provides defense and clutch shooting.

Yes, it would be nice to see the bigs get some touches every now and then. Baynes was bad. I think he should come off the bench. Yet there was a couple times I thought he should have been given a couple touches rather than another three taken.

Clutch shooting and defense is what FVV provides. And he's good at bringing the ball up court. I'm fine with his contract and think he will have value in future trades. That said, when it comes to my ideal PG it's not Fred. Not yet anyway.

[HKBOY]

Fred is a high end role player. If we get Suggs or Cade, then Fred would be a good player to pair up with. Good 3 point shooter, good defender, good secondary ball handler that no longer has to make plays for the others.

[Basketball_Jones]

lol who is Fred going to feed? Siakam/Baynes/OG and most of the team can't throw the ball into an ocean. And he's not Chris Paul. Unrealistic expectations for a guy that's supposed to be a 3D backcourt player. I'll take this production currently, hoping we improve the roster so he doesn't have to score 20ppg on average/below average efficiency as long as he provides defense and clutch shooting.

Yes, it would be nice to see the bigs get some touches every now and then. Baynes was bad. I think he should come off the bench. Yet there was a couple times I thought he should have been given a couple touches rather than another three taken.

Clutch shooting and defense is what FVV provides. And he's good at bringing the ball up court. I'm fine with his contract and think he will have value in future trades. That said, when it comes to my ideal PG it's not Fred. Not yet anyway.

The bigs are getting touches, they can’t finish or create for crap. Not the answer. Fred is not the ideal lead playmaker/creator. Flynn isn’t either. Neither is Lowry anymore. This team just needs more talent, and a real scorer like a Devin Booker or Bradley Beal.

[bballsparkin]

The bigs are getting touches, they can’t finish or create for crap. Not the answer. Fred is not the ideal lead playmaker/creator. Flynn isn’t either. Neither is Lowry anymore. This team just needs more talent, and a real scorer like a Devin Booker or Bradley Beal.

I mean old school actually dump it into the big when they have position. Not just threes, rebounds, and on the run touches. There was one specifically when Baynes I thought should have been given the ball in the post. Fred took a pull up three. Since he was 6/9 from threes it likely went in. Anyway Fred played well. I think Lowry is still a pretty good playmaker. Better teammates would help.

[mdenny]

lol who is Fred going to feed? Siakam/Baynes/OG and most of the team can't throw the ball into an ocean. And he's not Chris Paul. Unrealistic expectations for a guy that's supposed to be a 3D backcourt player. I'll take this production currently, hoping we improve the roster so he doesn't have to score 20ppg on average/below average efficiency as long as he provides defense and clutch shooting.

Yes, it would be nice to see the bigs get some touches every now and then. Baynes was bad. I think he should come off the bench. Yet there was a couple times I thought he should have been given a couple touches rather than another three taken.

Clutch shooting and defense is what FVV provides. And he's good at bringing the ball up court. I'm fine with his contract and think he will have value in future trades. That said, when it comes to my ideal PG it's not Fred. Not yet anyway.

I'm not a stat guy but I'm sure there's stats out there to show that Fred is not a score-first player. He gives players touches all the time. He doesn't create easy buckets like Kyle but he also has alot less turnovers than Kyle.

Fact is....both Kyle and Fred have nothing to work with right now. The two best scorers on our team are backcourt players. We don't have any scoring upfront or on the wings right now.

The fred-hate has been fueled by casuals on twitter and message boards who have no clue what they're watching. Those narratives are bull. Fred gets no love when he drops 30 because noone wants to contradict their previous critiques. I've seen "Flynn was our best player in the pre-season" on this board more than 5 occasions. You'd have to be blind to overlook Fred's pre-season.

I can see that Fred is in a no-win situation with a chunk of this fanbase.beven tonight there was talk that Fred wasn't giving Flynn enough touches lol. How many years until Flynn drops 30? While getting all the steals and rebounds and assists?

Part of it feels like it's because Fred didn't get drafted. This has an impact because it probably also effects how much American media attention he gets.

I predicted Fred would be an all-star this year. We'll see. I can see him getting robbed of that too.

[casual_raps_fan]

How about a 76ers trade like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/8HAN-vcqb

Kyle, Thomas
for
Green, Scott, Ferguson, Maxey, 1st round pick

Who says no?

[Syd-TK3]

The most ideal thing would be to tank this year and trade siakam, Lowry, and Fred at some point for young assets and try to complete a quick 2 year rebuild with the next 2 drafts. A top 5 pick in the next two drafts should be enough to start building around..

Imagine Kuminga and Bates

Bates would only be in next years draft if they pass highschool rule

[ItsDanger]

Fred is fine as PG if he has 2 legit scorers ahead of him on the pecking order. If he's leading your team in scoring, that's a major problem.

[mdenny]

How about a 76ers trade like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/8HAit's been N-vcqb

Kyle, Thomas
for
Green, Scott, Ferguson, Maxey, 1st round pick

Who says no?

It's been discussed at length. As far as I know Creamy was the first to suggest it. Various versions but not including Thomas and Ferguson and alternating between Maxey/thybulle.

I think creamy's first proposal was Kyle for Green/Scott/Maxey/thybulle but the basic idea would be that the two major pieces coming back would 2 of thybulle/Maxey/pick/pick.

Makes sense on several levels. Philly may prefer picks over their prospez cts because they're trying to compete now. That probably works better for us too.

Makes a ton of sense for Philly:

Lowry
Curry
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

[casual_raps_fan]

How about a 76ers trade like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/8HAit's been N-vcqb

Kyle, Thomas
for
Green, Scott, Ferguson, Maxey, 1st round pick

Who says no?

It's been discussed at length. As far as I know Creamy was the first to suggest it. Various versions but not including Thomas and Ferguson and alternating between Maxey/thybulle.

I think creamy's first proposal was Kyle for Green/Scott/Maxey/thybulle but the basic idea would be that the two major pieces coming back would 2 of thybulle/Maxey/pick/pick.

Makes sense on several levels. Philly may prefer picks over their prospects because they're trying to compete now. That probably works better for us too.

Ok I understand. I'll read through the thread.

I took Thybulle into consideration as well but liked Maxey's offensive potential more. Also if we do keep Fred around, Maxey has potential to fit well next to him which is a nice bonus.

After sending Kyle to the 76ers, I'm going to assume he will stay there which means their picks will probably remain mid to late 20s for a while. If that is the case, I would prefer taking Maxey over an extra 1st round pick.


Edit: I was skimming through this thread but I am mostly seeing people arguing that the tank is good or evil. Was the trade discussion in this thread?

[mdenny]

How about a 76ers trade like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/8HAit's been N-vcqb

Kyle, Thomas
for
Green, Scott, Ferguson, Maxey, 1st round pick

Who says no?

It's been discussed at length. As far as I know Creamy was the first to suggest it. Various versions but not including Thomas and Ferguson and alternating between Maxey/thybulle.

I think creamy's first proposal was Kyle for Green/Scott/Maxey/thybulle but the basic idea would be that the two major pieces coming back would 2 of thybulle/Maxey/pick/pick.

Makes sense on several levels. Philly may prefer picks over their prospects because they're trying to compete now. That probably works better for us too.

Ok I understand. I'll read through the thread.

I took Thybulle into consideration as well but liked Maxey's offensive potential more. Also if we do keep Fred around, Maxey has potential to fit well next to him which is a nice bonus.

After sending Kyle to the 76ers, I'm going to assume he will stay there which means their picks will probably remain mid to late 20s for a while. If that is the case, I would prefer taking Maxey over an extra 1st round pick.


Edit: I was skimming through this thread but I am mostly seeing people arguing that the tank is good or evil. Was the trade discussion in this thread?

It's been talked about in several threads including this one. I'll try to link you.

I wonder if floaters may become a thing the next few seasons. It's basically impossible to defend them. Doncic has probably pushed that forward and when I checked out maxey's college hilites it seemed like his greatest weapon.

The trade was discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2035773

There's also a few other places including somewhere in this thread.