Tank World Order

[MavCarter]

Who's this team with inferior talent? Did raps have 1 series with Casey where they had the best player? Not against the Nets, not against the Wiz, not against the Pacers.

NBA is a game of talent. Im not even saying this to disparage Nurse or prop up Casey. I think a coach can hurt you, but ultimately, youre as good as your best players. Raps won when they had the best players (2019, i think a case can be made for Philly) and lost when they didnt. Here and there a team wins without the best players, but it's a rarity.

People here prop up Nurse like he's a king or something, but it's always been Lowry. He's a RS superstar and so we're RS monsters. When the playoffs slow down, he becomes limited by his size and lack of top end athleticism. The Raps as a whole get exposed for having a lack of talent, and so they lose to objectively worse teams from the RS, like the C's last year, regardless of who's the coach.

If the "he didn't have the best player on the floor" excuse is being used for getting swept/struggling vs 7th seeds in the first round why isn't it being used when we take the superiorly talented celtics 7 games with regular season star kyle lowry? You're whole argument started by trying to discredit nurse winning a championship and using strawman argument points to put him in the same category as casey. Is it fair to say popovich is comparable to casey also because if you take away kawhi/tim duncan and all the championships and give them derozan instead they're isnt much difference? Lets just take away championships and superstars when talking about coaches now. They'll all be on the same level

The entirety of my argument was what i put in that last post. Coaches dont matter much. Bad coaches can really hurt you, but an average coach is not to different than a great coach, and it's near impossible to measure. Nurse winning and Casey losing boils down to 1 having the best team/player in every series he played and the other not having it. Thats the story of the league; the best players usually win. Nurse got put on a pedestal because of that when he shouldnt have

Answer my question, are gregg popovich and dwane casey basically comparable coaches?

[KL78192020]

Who's this team with inferior talent? Did raps have 1 series with Casey where they had the best player? Not against the Nets, not against the Wiz, not against the Pacers.

NBA is a game of talent. Im not even saying this to disparage Nurse or prop up Casey. I think a coach can hurt you, but ultimately, youre as good as your best players. Raps won when they had the best players (2019, i think a case can be made for Philly) and lost when they didnt. Here and there a team wins without the best players, but it's a rarity.

People here prop up Nurse like he's a king or something, but it's always been Lowry. He's a RS superstar and so we're RS monsters. When the playoffs slow down, he becomes limited by his size and lack of top end athleticism. The Raps as a whole get exposed for having a lack of talent, and so they lose to objectively worse teams from the RS, like the C's last year, regardless of who's the coach.

If the "he didn't have the best player on the floor" excuse is being used for getting swept/struggling vs 7th seeds in the first round why isn't it being used when we take the superiorly talented celtics 7 games with regular season star kyle lowry? You're whole argument started by trying to discredit nurse winning a championship and using strawman argument points to put him in the same category as casey. Is it fair to say popovich is comparable to casey also because if you take away kawhi/tim duncan and all the championships and give them derozan instead they're isnt much difference? Lets just take away championships and superstars when talking about coaches now. They'll all be on the same level

The entirety of my argument was what i put in that last post. Coaches dont matter much. Bad coaches can really hurt you, but an average coach is not to different than a great coach, and it's near impossible to measure. Nurse winning and Casey losing boils down to 1 having the best team/player in every series he played and the other not having it. Thats the story of the league; the best players usually win. Nurse got put on a pedestal because of that when he shouldnt have

Casey had plenty of playoff success as well with Demar leading the team, the same Demar everyone **** on, and no defensive interior presence in JV. Took the Cavs to 6 games in the conference finals. So yea do coaches matter of course, but nowhere near as much as having a star players.

[mademan]

If the "he didn't have the best player on the floor" excuse is being used for getting swept/struggling vs 7th seeds in the first round why isn't it being used when we take the superiorly talented celtics 7 games with regular season star kyle lowry? You're whole argument started by trying to discredit nurse winning a championship and using strawman argument points to put him in the same category as casey. Is it fair to say popovich is comparable to casey also because if you take away kawhi/tim duncan and all the championships and give them derozan instead they're isnt much difference? Lets just take away championships and superstars when talking about coaches now. They'll all be on the same level

The entirety of my argument was what i put in that last post. Coaches dont matter much. Bad coaches can really hurt you, but an average coach is not to different than a great coach, and it's near impossible to measure. Nurse winning and Casey losing boils down to 1 having the best team/player in every series he played and the other not having it. Thats the story of the league; the best players usually win. Nurse got put on a pedestal because of that when he shouldnt have

Answer my question, are gregg popovich and dwane casey basically comparable coaches?

I have no idea. How do you assess coaches? Popovich is better because he's won a lot and he's been extremely successful. How much of that is being blessed with Tim Duncan? Can you quantify that?

Assess Casey and Nurse will ya. I'd like someone to actually show their work when they say Nurse is better than Casey. That is the claim youre making, no? Justify it.

[jimmy keys]

My tank mode would include a full nuclear option:

NYK is in the playoffs now, but lacks a consistent threat and leadership. I bet you Thibs would love Lowry and play him 40 mins.

Tor: Lowry
NYK: Ntilkina, Smith Jr, Knox, Bullock and a 2021 FRP

Philly could also use Powell in a sixth man role and is an upgrade over Korkmaz.

Tor: Powell
Phi: Bradley, Korkmaz, Ferguson, 2021 SRP

Pops would probably like to be in the playoffs again and Siakam would be a better fit than Aldridge. I imagine SA could do wonders for his game like they did with Gay.

Tor: Siakam
SA: Aldridge, Lyles, 2021 FRP

Toronto loads up on the draft and probably keeps a couple of those players for the future.

Love the Lowry to Knicks idea. Siakam to SA only if the pick unprotected would I even remotely consider it.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I was thinking of some potential Lowry deals and I came up with this one that I really like...

To Toronto:

Eric Bledsoe
NAW
Thybulle
Maxey
Lotto protected #1 from Phi

To 76ers:

Kyle Lowry
Terrence Davis

To Pelicans:

Danny Green
Mike Scott
Pat McCaw

Yes, I know the Raptors are taking on Bledsoe, but you get NAW as incentive and maybe they even throw in a 2nd or something. I think Bledsoe can be flipped down the road for some assets or at least used as trade ballast. Pels desperately need shooting and they get some.

[Steelo Green]

From 2005-2018 (Excluded last 2 years because they're still rookies/sophomores) 24% of players taken in the top 10 turned into all stars. 33% of players taken in the top 5 turned into all stars. 2/36 all stars drafted in the top 10 since 2005 won a championship with the team that drafted them. 6/36 won a championship either with their original team or another. Just some perspective before falling into the TWO trap where you're deluded into thinking this pick is going to turn into our next franchise player guaranteed. Front offices miss way more often on these high picks than they hit. I know we have an elite FO/scouting department but we've had an identity of drafting older players where its easier to project their impact as pros. It becomes much more difficult the higher and younger you go. This is likely going to turn into a 5-6 year process where you need multiple trys to get even 1 all star level player

This selective drafting dates is being used again and again.

You used the arbitrary 2005 draft start date ignoring that Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Dirk all won titles who were drafted before 2005.

Then we have to remember that there are only 15 NBA titles of your arbitrary years 6/36 won a title ignoring what role they played.

It’s simple, a top ten pick has won 26/30 NBA titles as the main piece of a team, the other 4 being Kobe and Kawhi picked at 12 and 15 ie lottery and the pick right after the lottery.

With regard to all your percentages - well yeah, the draft often produces busts and the busts are usually associated with the bad franchises in the lottery year in and out, and then the fact they are usually bad at development as well.

We aren’t going to be shocked if we draft a bust, nothing is guaranteed, but there is a guarantee basically always in NBA history that a top 10 pick is what ends up leading you to a title, and more than 65% of the time it’s the first pick.

I don't think anyone would disagree that you need high end talent (thats usually drafted high) to win championships. The problem is every year you finish with a bad record and draft in the top 10 there's around an 80% chance you *dont* draft an all star caliber player. What happens if you *don't* beat those odds for say, 4-5 years in a row?

Bad drafting is almost always associated with bad player development and bad management missing out on surefire talents.

If we trust Masai, Bobby and Dan so much, we shouldn't be afraid of going into the draft.

The alternative is what, hope for another Kawhi trade that was the exception of all exceptions?

80% is such an arbitrary thing without looking at any nuance whatsoever.

The fact is, NBA titles are basically always led by a lottery pick, more often than not, the top pick. The 20% which is wrong, but even if you see that is correct, is still way higher than the hoping for a Kawhi trade to happen again.

If Masai had 2-3 lottery picks, I would bet he hits on at least one franchise level talent.

Ask yourself, do you think that 2-3 lottery picks for any of these teams: GS, San Antonio, Dallas, Miami, Denver, Boston, LA do you anticipate them all to be busts? No you know those are good franchises in terms of finding talent and development.

The teams that are a part of the 20% are likely a lot higher on their hit rate for that reason, whereas the Sacremento's, Charlotte's, and Detroit's of the world constantly miss due to bad talent eye and development.

We are hitting and developing late first rounders, seconds and undrafted players, but the problem is they don't have the talent at the get go to get into the superstar range. Jokic is basically the only exception of a non lottery pick or Kawhi 15th pick to become a superstar. It is far more likely to get a high pick and get that elite skilled and talented player that our team can develop. We milked Pascal, Fred, OG as much as we could but they simply didn't have enough talent to begin with to get into superstar range.

[Marty_Budda]

I was thinking of some potential Lowry deals and I came up with this one that I really like...

To Toronto:

Eric Bledsoe
NAW
Thybulle
Maxey
Lotto protected #1 from Phi

To 76ers:

Kyle Lowry
Terrence Davis

To Pelicans:

Danny Green
Mike Scott
Pat McCaw

Yes, I know the Raptors are taking on Bledsoe, but you get NAW as incentive and maybe they even throw in a 2nd or something. I think Bledsoe can be flipped down the road for some assets or at least used as trade ballast. Pels desperately need shooting and they get some.

Why would the pelicans flip Bledsoe for practically nothing tho? May as well hold onto him.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I was thinking of some potential Lowry deals and I came up with this one that I really like...

To Toronto:

Eric Bledsoe
NAW
Thybulle
Maxey
Lotto protected #1 from Phi

To 76ers:

Kyle Lowry
Terrence Davis

To Pelicans:

Danny Green
Mike Scott
Pat McCaw

Yes, I know the Raptors are taking on Bledsoe, but you get NAW as incentive and maybe they even throw in a 2nd or something. I think Bledsoe can be flipped down the road for some assets or at least used as trade ballast. Pels desperately need shooting and they get some.

Why would the pelicans flip Bledsoe for practically nothing tho? May as well hold onto him.

Yeah, it depends on how highly the Pels rate him. Their roster balance isn't good and Bledsoe has been pretty meh for them. I was thinking they would like to get off that contract.

[Basketball_Jones]

Took about 20 games in before Masai moved Rudy Gay. A move is coming, potentially sooner if we’re like 2-10

[MixxSRC]

Big elephant in the room is who will oversee the rebuild if they tank.

[Kingsway_fan]

Big elephant in the room is who will oversee the rebuild if they tank.

If done properly it could be this season tank only... key is getting frp s trading Lowry, norm, and ideally OG also.

[PhilBlackson]

Perfect year to tank though...

Cade imo looks like the kinda player that's going to be right behind Luka (except Cade defends which may narrow the gap) and even ahead of Tatum in time. If we by some miracle landed him, trust me no one is gonna care about sitting out the season in Tampa.

[h4rrison]

How many more games do I need to root for the opposing team? I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

[Kingsway_fan]

Perfect year to tank though...

Cade imo looks like the kinda player that's going to be right behind Luka (except Cade defends which may narrow the gap) and even ahead of Tatum in time. If we by some miracle landed him, trust me no one is gonna care about sitting out the season in Tampa.

Yep. Perfect season to tank big time....

[Pooh_Jeter]

Big game today, the Suns have been excellent to start the season and are at home, but weirder things have happened. I believe they are elite at preventing 3 point shots and the Raptors are obviously chucking them at an insane rate so the matchup does seem to favour TWO.

[Chandan]

Big game today, the Suns have been excellent to start the season and are at home, but weirder things have happened. I believe they are elite at preventing 3 point shots and the Raptors are obviously chucking them at an insane rate so the matchup does seem to favour TWO.

have faith in our suckage.

[ark26]

How many more games do I need to root for the opposing team? I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

The quicker we rebuild the quicker we can get back to contending. Nothing worse than cheering for mediocrity. If you gonna be bad might as well be the worst.

[BDE]

MEAN GENE: BDE, excuse me. Excuse me! What in the world are you thinking?"

BDE: Mean Gene, the first thing you need to do is to tell these RealGMers to shut up if you wanna' hear what I've got to say.

MEAN GENE: I have been with you for so many years; for you to join up with the likes of these posters absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. And I think that these posters here and a lot of other posters around the forum have had just about enough of this poster and this poster and you want to put yourself in this group? You've got to be kidding me.

BDE: Well, the first thing you gotta' realize, brother, is this right here is the future of the Toronto RAPTORS. You can call this the TANK WORLD ORDER, brother. These posters right here came from a great big organization up north and everybody was wondering who the third man was. Well, who knows more about that organization than me, brother?

MEAN GENE: I've been there, I've done that. You have made the wrong decision in my opinion.

BDE: Well, let me tell you something. I made that organization a monster. I made people rich up there. I made the people that ran that organization rich up there, brother. I PM'd 10 lucky posters the Kawhi scoops brother. And when it all came to pass, the name BDE, got bigger than the whole organization, brother. And then, the posters here, amigo; they wanted to talk turkey with BDE. Well, REALGM promised me movies, brother. REALGM promised me millions of dollars. And REALGM promised me world-caliber Raptors insight. And as far as REALGM goes, Duffman, and the whole Raptors REALGM goes, I'm bored brother. That's why these posters here, the so-called tWo's, these are the posters I want as my friends. They are the new blood of REALGM, brother. And not only are we going to take over the whole RAPTORS REALGM business with BDE and the new blood, the monsters with me, we will destroy everything in our path, Mean Gene.

[Fans pelt the ring with garbage]

MEAN GENE: Look at all of this crap in this ring. This is what's in the future for you if you want to hang around the likes of these posters.

BDE: As far as I'm concerned, all of this crap in this forum represents these posters out there. For two years, brother, for two years I held my head high. I did everything for the posters here. I did everything for the scoops. And the reception I got when I came out here - you posters can stick it, brother. Because if it wasn't for BDE you people wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for BDE, Duffman would be still selling meat from a truck in Minneapolis. And if it wasn't for BDE, all these Johnny Come Lately's that you see out here posting wouldn't be here. I was selling out the world, brother, while they were pumping gas to put in their car to get to high school. So the way it is now, brother, with BDE and the TANK WORLD ORDER, brother, me and the new ideas by my side, whatcha gonna do when the TANK WORLD ORDER runs wild on you? Whatcha gonna do? What are you gonna do?



BDE is tWo

[bargs4mvp]

TWO full steam ahead. Booker and cp3 gonna wreck us


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[h4rrison]

How many more games do I need to root for the opposing team? I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

The quicker we rebuild the quicker we can get back to contending. Nothing worse than cheering for mediocrity. If you gonna be bad might as well be the worst.

100% agree.