Haliburton

SNPA · Post #141 » by **SNPA** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 7:00 pm

Usage is odd. Saying we don’t know what he is is odd.

The kid is a winning player. Plays both ways. Has great shooting percentages and is a high level creator for teammates. You have to try hard not to like Hali as a player. Not a team in the league wouldn’t want him.

EvanZ · Post #142 » by **EvanZ** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 7:49 pm

SNPA wrote:Usage is odd. Saying we don’t know what he is is odd.

The kid is a winning player. Plays both ways. Has great shooting percentages and is a high level creator for teammates. You have to try hard not to like Hali as a player. Not a team in the league wouldn’t want him.

Where did you find all the straw?

No-Man · Post #143 » by **No-Man** » Mon Jan 4, 2021 10:17 am

Jesus christ people failing to grasp what's so damn obvious is really exhausting

clyde21 · Post #144 » by **clyde21** » Mon Jan 4, 2021 5:11 pm

Fischella wrote:Jesus christ people failing to grasp what's so damn obvious is really exhausting

this coming from you is gold. :lol:

SNPA · Post #145 » by **SNPA** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 4:27 am

Fischella wrote:Jesus christ people failing to grasp what's so damn obvious is really exhausting

You’ve said in this thread that Hali can be replaced somewhat easily and cheapish. Can you please say which easily obtainable cheap players can replace Hali?

clyde21 · Post #146 » by **clyde21** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:43 pm

Hali: 15/4/6/2 on 51/48/88

6:1 A/TO ratio, a whopping 23% assist rate on only 13% usage

Spoiler:

clyde21 · Post #147 » by **clyde21** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:45 pm

SNPA wrote:
Fischella wrote:Jesus christ people failing to grasp what's so damn obvious is really exhausting

You’ve said in this thread that Hali can be replaced somewhat easily and cheapish. Can you please say which easily obtainable cheap players can replace Hali?

my man Fisch says a lot of things

EvanZ · Post #148 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:50 pm

clyde21 wrote:Hali: 15/4/6/2 on 51/48/88

6:1 A/TO ratio, a whopping 23% assist rate on only 13% usage

Spoiler:

It's pretty bad when you act like usage isn't valuable. A guard or wing generally needs at least 25% USG to be a star. He's actually trying to drive more than he did at ISU, which is a good sign. It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

clyde21 · Post #149 » by **clyde21** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 7:45 pm

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Hali: 15/4/6/2 on 51/48/88

6:1 A/TO ratio, a whopping 23% assist rate on only 13% usage

Spoiler:

It's pretty bad when you act like usage isn't valuable. A guard or wing generally needs at least 25% USG to be a star. He's actually trying to drive more than he did at ISU, which is a good sign. It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

no one said usage is not valuable, but it's weird to discount someone because he can impact the game in many ways on low usage, these guys are at an absolute premium in the NBA, and as a Warriors fan you should know the importance of low-usage high-impact players more than anyone else.

SNPA · Post #150 » by **SNPA** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 8:20 pm

EvanZ wrote: It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

Please other teams, do this.

Thank you,
Fox, Walton and Kings fans everywhere

EvanZ · Post #151 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 11:07 pm

clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Hali: 15/4/6/2 on 51/48/88

6:1 A/TO ratio, a whopping 23% assist rate on only 13% usage

Spoiler:

It's pretty bad when you act like usage isn't valuable. A guard or wing generally needs at least 25% USG to be a star. He's actually trying to drive more than he did at ISU, which is a good sign. It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

no one said usage is not valuable, but it's weird to discount someone because he can impact the game in many ways on low usage, these guys are at an absolute premium in the NBA, and as a Warriors fan you should know the importance of low-usage high-impact players more than anyone else.

It's not weird to discount him as being a star, if he has < 15% USG. There are very very few guards or wings in NBA history who were stars with < 15% USG. Not sure I can think of any off the top of my head. Draymond is an extremely unique case if that's who you're hinting at.

Now if he can get to 20% or 25% then we're talking.

clyde21 · Post #152 » by **clyde21** » Thu Jan 7, 2021 11:12 pm

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
It's pretty bad when you act like usage isn't valuable. A guard or wing generally needs at least 25% USG to be a star. He's actually trying to drive more than he did at ISU, which is a good sign. It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

no one said usage is not valuable, but it's weird to discount someone because he can impact the game in many ways on low usage, these guys are at an absolute premium in the NBA, and as a Warriors fan you should know the importance of low-usage high-impact players more than anyone else.

It's not weird to discount him as being a star, if he has < 15% USG. There are very very few guards or wings in NBA history who were stars with < 15% USG. Not sure I can think of any off the top of my head. Draymond is an extremely unique case if that's who you're hinting at.

Now if he can get to 20% or 25% then we're talking.

not everyone on your team can be a 25% usage guy, and that's why Hali is a premium piece in today's NBA, because his scalability and portability is off the charts, the fact that he can be impactful on such low usage is exactly why he's so valuable.

no, he's never gonna be the usage or PPG fiend that LaMelo will be, but I guarantee he will be a much more useful piece and winning player overall long term.

EvanZ · Post #153 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 3:20 am

clyde21 wrote:not everyone on your team can be a 25% usage guy, and that's why Hali is a premium piece in today's NBA,

This is just a really weird statement. I mean I could be a 0% usage guy in the NBA. I guess I'd be the MVP?

clyde21 · Post #154 » by **clyde21** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:00 am

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:not everyone on your team can be a 25% usage guy, and that's why Hali is a premium piece in today's NBA,

This is just a really weird statement. I mean I could be a 0% usage guy in the NBA. I guess I'd be the MVP?

i don't even know what you're arguing at this point.

kb02 · Post #155 » by **kb02** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 3:19 pm

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
It's pretty bad when you act like usage isn't valuable. A guard or wing generally needs at least 25% USG to be a star. He's actually trying to drive more than he did at ISU, which is a good sign. It will be interesting to see how he does when teams really start keying in on him.

no one said usage is not valuable, but it's weird to discount someone because he can impact the game in many ways on low usage, these guys are at an absolute premium in the NBA, and as a Warriors fan you should know the importance of low-usage high-impact players more than anyone else.

It's not weird to discount him as being a star, if he has < 15% USG. There are very very few guards or wings in NBA history who were stars with < 15% USG. Not sure I can think of any off the top of my head. Draymond is an extremely unique case if that's who you're hinting at.

Now if he can get to 20% or 25% then we're talking.

EvanZ · Post #156 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:52 pm

kb02 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
no one said usage is not valuable, but it's weird to discount someone because he can impact the game in many ways on low usage, these guys are at an absolute premium in the NBA, and as a Warriors fan you should know the importance of low-usage high-impact players more than anyone else.

It's not weird to discount him as being a star, if he has < 15% USG. There are very very few guards or wings in NBA history who were stars with < 15% USG. Not sure I can think of any off the top of my head. Draymond is an extremely unique case if that's who you're hinting at.

Now if he can get to 20% or 25% then we're talking.

Laughing is not answering. If you have a point to rebut, you should do it.

kb02 · Post #157 » by **kb02** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:51 pm

EvanZ wrote:
kb02 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
It's not weird to discount him as being a star, if he has < 15% USG. There are very very few guards or wings in NBA history who were stars with < 15% USG. Not sure I can think of any off the top of my head. Draymond is an extremely unique case if that's who you're hinting at.

Now if he can get to 20% or 25% then we're talking.

Laughing is not answering. If you have a point to rebut, you should do it.

How about you rebut my questions from the previous pages of this thread first?

TB · Post #158 » by TB » Fri Jan 8, 2021 10:48 pm

I think the discussion on where Haliburtons Usage goes over the next 5 years or so is actually a really interesting one.

If it stays around 11-14, you are basically already seeing what a near perfect version of that is on offense. His percentages and assist numbers are insane and probably skewing a bit high with small sample size. Essentially he would be a better shooting version of the 2015 Iggy. That is extremely valuable, but I get why some people wouldn't call that a "star" (even though I probably would if the defense was equally good).

If he can jump up to 15-20 usage and only see percentages and turnovers dip a bit, he could fall into the category of someone like Tayshaun Prince, early Leonard, AK47, Dray etc. There are probably better examples but those are the ones I thought of instantly and the usage fell in that range. Essentially well rounded offensive players that can be secondary playmakers.

(noticing the trend that these really good low/mid usage offensive players are all known for being great defenders... seems like a high bball iq correlation there?)

If his usage is 20+ without too crazy a dip in efficiency, now we are talking about your typical leading scorer/assist type of player usually associated with being a star/franchise player/allstar.

If I had to guess, I don't think he's going to be that 25+ usage type of player because 1) I dont think he has the athleticism and skill to succeed at it and 2) I just don't think that attacking style is in his DNA or player type, which is fine. I think he settles into that 15-23 usage range while staying efficient. And if his defense is legit, he really could be a guard version of someone like dray/ak/prince that flirt with allstars even tho in reality they probably should be perennial allstars due to their impact.

I dunno, thats just my take.. either way I really wish Hali was on my team.

clyde21 · Post #159 » by **clyde21** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 10:55 pm

who cares about 'star' or not? being a winning player has nothing to do with being a 'star'...there are a lot of 'stars' that are not winning players...they gets #s based strictly off their usage and don't have any substantive impact on winning

a guy like Dlo is a 'star' with 'star' numbers...you think he's more valuable to a team -- any team -- than a guy like Hali because of his usage? it's the complete opposite. high usage players are actually usually a detriment to a team if they're not absolutely elite at multiple facets on the court. look a Trae, who's numbers are absolutely absurd but for some reason still can't win and his teammates are already rebelling against his play style because how he HAS to monopolize the ball to do anything on the court. Throw Harden and Westbrook in this group and anyone else high usage.

again, after a SUPERSTAR player, the Haliburton archetype is THE most valuable in the entire NBA. ya'll can take your D-Los and Melos and even Traes...I'll take the Greens and Iggys.

EvanZ · Post #160 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:21 pm

TB wrote:I think the discussion on where Haliburtons Usage goes over the next 5 years or so is actually a really interesting one.

It is, just some fanboys don't want to deal with it.