The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall.

[the ultimates]

This isn’t new. He was poor at rebounding and playmaking in college too. Rebounding is particularly known as a reliable transfer to a pro career. He was also poor at this in the preseason. At some point, you should acknowledge the problem and correct it rather than just assume it is nothing.

I have said repeatedly in my conversations with you give him time to learn adjust and grow. So I've recognized some of the weaknesses what I'm not doing is extrapolating anything good or bad in less than 10 games of pro ball. Bulls fans always want guys with youth, potential and upside but they never actually have any patience to see if the player gets there.

And I’ve said repeatedly he needs more time, but that includes pushing a player to correct the issues.

And at the same time be weary that if everyone just got significantly better at rebounding, playmaking, etc., it would be a league full of All-Stars.

Why do you want him pushed so hard 10 games into his career?

I don't even know what the second part is supposed to mean considering every player drafted in the lottery is looked at largely on upside and potential. That means they have clear weaknesses but hopefully, with development, those weaknesses are lessened or become strengths, and yes those also include rebounding and playmaking for some.

[cjbulls]

I have said repeatedly in my conversations with you give him time to learn adjust and grow. So I've recognized some of the weaknesses what I'm not doing is extrapolating anything good or bad in less than 10 games of pro ball. Bulls fans always want guys with youth, potential and upside but they never actually have any patience to see if the player gets there.

And I’ve said repeatedly he needs more time, but that includes pushing a player to correct the issues.

And at the same time be weary that if everyone just got significantly better at rebounding, playmaking, etc., it would be a league full of All-Stars.

Why do you want him pushed so hard 10 games into his career?

I don't even know what the second part is supposed to mean considering every player drafted in the lottery is looked at largely on upside and potential. That means they have clear weaknesses but hopefully, with development, those weaknesses are lessened or become strengths, and yes those also include rebounding and playmaking for some.

When players show no affinity for a particular trait, we shouldn’t assume that will become a strong point for them. Just as we don’t expect LaMelo to become a 40% 3pt shooter, Toppin to become an adequate defender or Cole Anthony a distributor. If he isn’t showing any aptitude for other parts of the game, we should be concerned and the team should work to advance him in those areas.

[the ultimates]

And I’ve said repeatedly he needs more time, but that includes pushing a player to correct the issues.

And at the same time be weary that if everyone just got significantly better at rebounding, playmaking, etc., it would be a league full of All-Stars.

Why do you want him pushed so hard 10 games into his career?

I don't even know what the second part is supposed to mean considering every player drafted in the lottery is looked at largely on upside and potential. That means they have clear weaknesses but hopefully, with development, those weaknesses are lessened or become strengths, and yes those also include rebounding and playmaking for some.

When players show no affinity for a particular trait, we shouldn’t assume that will become a strong point for them. Just as we don’t expect LaMelo to become a 40% 3pt shooter, Toppin to become an adequate defender or Cole Anthony a distributor. If he isn’t showing any aptitude for other parts of the game, we should be concerned and the team should work to advance him in those areas.

Nobody is expecting Lamelo to be an elite three-point shooter but that doesn't mean he can't become better or be league average from three. Toppin will need to become a better defender at least league average unless he's some offensive monster. Anthony will need to be a better distributor but he doesn't have to be elite.

How about maybe being concerned after a month and not 9 games. There is no player the Bulls could have drafted that wouldn't have had a weakness that needed to be worked on unless you no longer want them to look at high ceiling players and draft the low floor easier projectable players.

[cjbulls]

Why do you want him pushed so hard 10 games into his career?

I don't even know what the second part is supposed to mean considering every player drafted in the lottery is looked at largely on upside and potential. That means they have clear weaknesses but hopefully, with development, those weaknesses are lessened or become strengths, and yes those also include rebounding and playmaking for some.

When players show no affinity for a particular trait, we shouldn’t assume that will become a strong point for them. Just as we don’t expect LaMelo to become a 40% 3pt shooter, Toppin to become an adequate defender or Cole Anthony a distributor. If he isn’t showing any aptitude for other parts of the game, we should be concerned and the team should work to advance him in those areas.

Nobody is expecting Lamelo to be an elite three-point shooter but that doesn't mean he can't become better or be league average from three. Toppin will need to become a better defender at least league average unless he's some offensive monster. Anthony will need to be a better distributor but he doesn't have to be elite.

How about maybe being concerned after a month and not 9 games. There is no player the Bulls could have drafted that wouldn't have had a weakness that needed to be worked on unless you no longer want them to look at high ceiling players and draft the low floor easier projectable players.

First preseason game was 12/11.

I don’t get the high ceiling comment as he continues to show no elite traits. If you want him to be Kawhi, Paul George or Butler, those guys are great because they contribute in all categories. 3 level scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, stocks. Still waiting for some evidence of that from PW in most of these areas.

[Clocian]

When players show no affinity for a particular trait, we shouldn’t assume that will become a strong point for them. Just as we don’t expect LaMelo to become a 40% 3pt shooter, Toppin to become an adequate defender or Cole Anthony a distributor. If he isn’t showing any aptitude for other parts of the game, we should be concerned and the team should work to advance him in those areas.

Nobody is expecting Lamelo to be an elite three-point shooter but that doesn't mean he can't become better or be league average from three. Toppin will need to become a better defender at least league average unless he's some offensive monster. Anthony will need to be a better distributor but he doesn't have to be elite.

How about maybe being concerned after a month and not 9 games. There is no player the Bulls could have drafted that wouldn't have had a weakness that needed to be worked on unless you no longer want them to look at high ceiling players and draft the low floor easier projectable players.

First preseason game was 12/11.

I don’t get the high ceiling comment as he continues to show no elite traits. If you want him to be Kawhi, Paul George or Butler, those guys are great because they contribute in all categories. 3 level scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, stocks. Still waiting for some evidence of that from PW in most of these areas.

What were kawhai and Paul George stats as a rookie?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[fleet]

Nobody is expecting Lamelo to be an elite three-point shooter but that doesn't mean he can't become better or be league average from three. Toppin will need to become a better defender at least league average unless he's some offensive monster. Anthony will need to be a better distributor but he doesn't have to be elite.

How about maybe being concerned after a month and not 9 games. There is no player the Bulls could have drafted that wouldn't have had a weakness that needed to be worked on unless you no longer want them to look at high ceiling players and draft the low floor easier projectable players.

First preseason game was 12/11.

I don’t get the high ceiling comment as he continues to show no elite traits. If you want him to be Kawhi, Paul George or Butler, those guys are great because they contribute in all categories. 3 level scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, stocks. Still waiting for some evidence of that from PW in most of these areas.

What were kawhai and Paul George stats as a rookie?

*he asks, as if he already knows the answer*

[cjbulls]

Nobody is expecting Lamelo to be an elite three-point shooter but that doesn't mean he can't become better or be league average from three. Toppin will need to become a better defender at least league average unless he's some offensive monster. Anthony will need to be a better distributor but he doesn't have to be elite.

How about maybe being concerned after a month and not 9 games. There is no player the Bulls could have drafted that wouldn't have had a weakness that needed to be worked on unless you no longer want them to look at high ceiling players and draft the low floor easier projectable players.

First preseason game was 12/11.

I don’t get the high ceiling comment as he continues to show no elite traits. If you want him to be Kawhi, Paul George or Butler, those guys are great because they contribute in all categories. 3 level scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, stocks. Still waiting for some evidence of that from PW in most of these areas.

What were kawhai and Paul George stats as a rookie?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

They both had a better rebound rate, assist rate, steals rate and turnover rate.

At this point I just would like to see PW keep up with Saddiq Bey, we can really slow our roll on the Kawhi and Paul George comparisons.

[fleet]

First preseason game was 12/11.

I don’t get the high ceiling comment as he continues to show no elite traits. If you want him to be Kawhi, Paul George or Butler, those guys are great because they contribute in all categories. 3 level scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense, stocks. Still waiting for some evidence of that from PW in most of these areas.

What were kawhai and Paul George stats as a rookie?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

They both had a better rebound rate, assist rate, steals rate and turnover rate.

At this point I just would like to see PW keep up with Saddiq Bey, we can really slow our roll on the Kawhi and Paul George comparisons.

Come on man. Comparable stats. Pat scores more. Be honest. You avoid the point about judgement of rookies.

[cjbulls]

What were kawhai and Paul George stats as a rookie?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

They both had a better rebound rate, assist rate, steals rate and turnover rate.

At this point I just would like to see PW keep up with Saddiq Bey, we can really slow our roll on the Kawhi and Paul George comparisons.

Come on man. Comparable stats. Pat scores more. Be honest. You avoid the point about judgement of rookies.

The Bulls have plenty of guys who can just score. We have one most here don’t want to pay this offseason and his scoring talent exceeds PW.

My point was to say it’s weird to just assume a rookie who is bad at something and has been bad will suddenly be good. We don’t do that for any other player. We don’t say, just wait, WCJ is going to be a good 3pt shooter soon. Or just wait, Coby’s a year away from being a true PG.

We point out flaws of everyone on this roster, and don’t pretend like they aren’t concerns

[fleet]

They both had a better rebound rate, assist rate, steals rate and turnover rate.

At this point I just would like to see PW keep up with Saddiq Bey, we can really slow our roll on the Kawhi and Paul George comparisons.

Come on man. Comparable stats. Pat scores more. Be honest. You avoid the point about judgement of rookies.

The Bulls have plenty of guys who can just score. We have one most here don’t want to pay this offseason and his scoring talent exceeds PW.

My point was to say it’s weird to just assume a rookie who is bad at something and has been bad will suddenly be good. We don’t do that for any other player. We don’t say, just wait, WCJ is going to be a good 3pt shooter soon. Or just wait, Coby’s a year away from being a true PG.

We point out flaws of everyone on this roster, and don’t pretend like they aren’t concerns

Dont pretend like there’s a big difference between 3 rebounds, 3.7 rebounds, or 5 rebounds during rookie seasons.

[cjbulls]

Come on man. Comparable stats. Pat scores more. Be honest. You avoid the point about judgement of rookies.

The Bulls have plenty of guys who can just score. We have one most here don’t want to pay this offseason and his scoring talent exceeds PW.

My point was to say it’s weird to just assume a rookie who is bad at something and has been bad will suddenly be good. We don’t do that for any other player. We don’t say, just wait, WCJ is going to be a good 3pt shooter soon. Or just wait, Coby’s a year away from being a true PG.

We point out flaws of everyone on this roster, and don’t pretend like they aren’t concerns

Dont pretend like there’s a big difference between 3 rebounds, 3.7 rebounds, or 5 rebounds during rookie seasons.

Ok you’re right. I guess PW is the next Kawhi. So what does that make Bey, LeBron?

All of this stuff matters. Maybe not in a pure numbers sense but when your rebound and assist totals look like this every game, it is a cause for concern. It is evident in the tape as well. Rebounds are about aggressiveness and desire. We can even see that from broke-down Otto. I don’t know why Pat doesn’t have that, he obviously has the strength, length and athleticism to be an above average rebounder. But him not showing it matters.

Similar issues show up in other areas of his game like his willingness to settle for pull ups and floaters.

Hopefully this can be coached out of him.

[fleet]

The Bulls have plenty of guys who can just score. We have one most here don’t want to pay this offseason and his scoring talent exceeds PW.

My point was to say it’s weird to just assume a rookie who is bad at something and has been bad will suddenly be good. We don’t do that for any other player. We don’t say, just wait, WCJ is going to be a good 3pt shooter soon. Or just wait, Coby’s a year away from being a true PG.

We point out flaws of everyone on this roster, and don’t pretend like they aren’t concerns

Dont pretend like there’s a big difference between 3 rebounds, 3.7 rebounds, or 5 rebounds during rookie seasons.

Ok you’re right. I guess PW is the next Kawhi. So what does that make Bey, LeBron?

All of this stuff matters. Maybe not in a pure numbers sense but when your rebound and assist totals look like this every game, it is a cause for concern. It is evident in the tape as well. Rebounds are about aggressiveness and desire. We can even see that from broke-down Otto. I don’t know why Pat doesn’t have that, he obviously has the strength, length and athleticism to be an above average rebounder. But him not showing it matters.

Similar issues show up in other areas of his game like his willingness to settle for pull ups and floaters.

Hopefully this can be coached out of him.

If you’re arguing by using a strawman, no need to continue this conversation.

[Leslie Forman]

If anyone in this league still on their rookie contract is showing potential Kawhi/Jimmy/PG-type growth, it's this kid. Frankly I think he looks like a better prospect than any of the 3 guys that went ahead of him. He is already showing flashes of traits he never displayed in college, even though he's still only 19, while also maintaining the IQ and defensive ability he did in college. That's a huge, huge positive sign.

Man am I glad the new regime didn't go and draft the standard expected MyHusbandPax pick everyone here wanted like Avdija or Hayes. God that would have been awful.

[cjbulls]

If anyone in this league still on their rookie contract is showing potential Kawhi/Jimmy/PG-type growth, it's this kid. Frankly I think he looks like a better prospect than any of the 3 guys that went ahead of him. He is already showing flashes of traits he never displayed in college, even though he's still only 19, while also maintaining the IQ and defensive ability he did in college. That's a huge, huge positive sign.

Man am I glad the new regime didn't go and draft the standard expected MyHusbandPax pick everyone here wanted like Avdija or Hayes. God that would have been awful.

Or Halliburton, right?

Hard to take that comment seriously when Ball and Wiseman are out there to see. But ok.

[cjbulls]

Dont pretend like there’s a big difference between 3 rebounds, 3.7 rebounds, or 5 rebounds during rookie seasons.

Ok you’re right. I guess PW is the next Kawhi. So what does that make Bey, LeBron?

All of this stuff matters. Maybe not in a pure numbers sense but when your rebound and assist totals look like this every game, it is a cause for concern. It is evident in the tape as well. Rebounds are about aggressiveness and desire. We can even see that from broke-down Otto. I don’t know why Pat doesn’t have that, he obviously has the strength, length and athleticism to be an above average rebounder. But him not showing it matters.

Similar issues show up in other areas of his game like his willingness to settle for pull ups and floaters.

Hopefully this can be coached out of him.

If you’re arguing by using a strawman, no need to continue this conversation.

You just bolded one sentence, ignore all the substance below it then call a strawman. Ok?

[Leslie Forman]

If anyone in this league still on their rookie contract is showing potential Kawhi/Jimmy/PG-type growth, it's this kid. Frankly I think he looks like a better prospect than any of the 3 guys that went ahead of him. He is already showing flashes of traits he never displayed in college, even though he's still only 19, while also maintaining the IQ and defensive ability he did in college. That's a huge, huge positive sign.

Man am I glad the new regime didn't go and draft the standard expected MyHusbandPax pick everyone here wanted like Avdija or Hayes. God that would have been awful.

Or Halliburton, right?

Hard to take that comment seriously when Ball and Wiseman are out there to see. But ok.

I said what I said.

Sorry ESPN or Ringer didn't have him #1 on their board so you could approve.

[cjbulls]

If anyone in this league still on their rookie contract is showing potential Kawhi/Jimmy/PG-type growth, it's this kid. Frankly I think he looks like a better prospect than any of the 3 guys that went ahead of him. He is already showing flashes of traits he never displayed in college, even though he's still only 19, while also maintaining the IQ and defensive ability he did in college. That's a huge, huge positive sign.

Man am I glad the new regime didn't go and draft the standard expected MyHusbandPax pick everyone here wanted like Avdija or Hayes. God that would have been awful.

Or Halliburton, right?

Hard to take that comment seriously when Ball and Wiseman are out there to see. But ok.

I said what I said.

Sorry ESPN or Ringer didn't have him #1 on their board so you could approve.

Yeah except the numbers and every possible eye test show these two as better prospects. But keep clinging to that ESPN is wrong narrative.

[Clocian]

7.8 pts / .297 3p% / 3.7 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.0 stl / 0.4 blk
10 pts / .471 3p% / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast / 0.6 stl / 0.9 blk
7.9 pts / .376 3p% / 5.1 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.3 stl / 0.4 blk

Two of these players are paul george and kawhai as rookies at age 20. The other is 19 year old Patrick Williams who apparently lacks potential to become a great player like the previously mentioned players despite being a year younger with no summer league and a shortened training camp.

[cjbulls]

7.8 pts / .297 3p% / 3.7 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.0 stl / 0.4 blk
10 pts / .471 3p% / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast / 0.6 stl / 0.9 blk
7.9 pts / .376 3p% / 5.1 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.3 stl / 0.4 blk

Two of these players are paul george and kawhai as rookies at age 20. The other is 19 year old Patrick Williams who apparently lacks potential to become a great player like the previously mentioned players despite being a year younger with no summer league and a shortened training camp.

So what does this make Saddiq Bey?

10.4 pts/ .463 3p% / 5.0 reb / 1.0 ast / 0.6 st/ 0 blk

How lucky we are to have both a future Kawhi and future Paul George in one draft.

[the ultimates]

7.8 pts / .297 3p% / 3.7 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.0 stl / 0.4 blk
10 pts / .471 3p% / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast / 0.6 stl / 0.9 blk
7.9 pts / .376 3p% / 5.1 reb / 1.1 ast / 1.3 stl / 0.4 blk

Two of these players are paul george and kawhai as rookies at age 20. The other is 19 year old Patrick Williams who apparently lacks potential to become a great player like the previously mentioned players despite being a year younger with no summer league and a shortened training camp.

So what does this make Saddiq Bey?

10.4 pts/ .463 3p% / 5.0 reb / 1.0 ast / 0.6 st/ 0 blk

How lucky we are to have both a future Kawhi and future Paul George in one draft.

If it wasn't for the game against Milwaukee Bey's numbers would be worse than Williams and even with that early season outlier their nearly identical. Here's the game logs for the two.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beysa01/gamelog/2021
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beysa01/gamelog/2021