Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[Kyler Murray]

Y'all crazy if you think DA isn't balling so far this season. His presence is felt both sides, his improvement in d is eye popping. He literally can switch onto anyone and won't be a mismatch. The fact he doesn't score as much as you would want is clearly a scheme side-effect, they don't run any plays for him, we're just constantly looking for the open 3. There were many instances that I saw DA establish post position and getting ignored. But I love the ball movement on the perimeter so I won't complain. And on the notion that he doesn't score the way you want him to (dunks etc) is ridiculous, TD made a HOF career out of a bank shot, so let's just let him operate in his comfort zone.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah Ayton appears to be doing what's being asked of him to help this team win games. We should be happy about that not knit pick everything we think he should be.

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[sundevil1999]

I am not criticizing Ayton's play at all. I think he has been above average to great on the defensive side of the ball. Only complaint there is he still needs to improve his help defense. I see too often that when a guard gets by Book or CP3, he is afraid or unwilling to leave his man. Or he is jut not rotating fast enough. He seems energized on that side of the court. Conversely, there are times where he looks really tired on offense. Honestly, that is my only complaint on that side of the ball. DO I wish he was dominating offensively? Sure thing, but he is not asked to be dominant in this offense, and I dont think Booker is either. There are many reliable scoring options.

I am not sitting there praying that Josh Jackson, Bender, or even Oubre have a good offensive game just to have a chance to be in it at the end. It seems like every option we have can have a good game, from Cam Johnson to Cam Payne. I mean I dont expect many games where Frank or Smith score 15 or even 20, but the players that have been playing give me little worry.

That being said, I got to thinking about Ayton and his role. I am sure this has been discussed before, maybe ad nauseum, but does anyone think Ayton was drafted two decades too late? Do you think that we were so desperate or short sighted to get a franchise center, that we ignored the current state of the NBA where bigs are not as relevant? I am not criticizing Ayton, or saying he's a bust whatsoever. I am saying that whether it be McDonough, or Sarver, or even ourselves, did we just fall in love with the idea of drafting a potential superstar big, that we completely ignored that the league is built on Three point shooting at the moment?

Last year I was complaining that they were not giving Ayton the ball enough. I am beginning to understand now, at least I think I am, that Ayton will never get to his true offensive potential because in this era its not an inside out game anymore, and its now a outside in type of league. Just my humble opinion.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I am not criticizing Ayton's play at all. I think he has been above average to great on the defensive side of the ball. Only complaint there is he still needs to improve his help defense. I see too often that when a guard gets by Book or CP3, he is afraid or unwilling to leave his man. Or he is jut not rotating fast enough. He seems energized on that side of the court. Conversely, there are times where he looks really tired on offense. Honestly, that is my only complaint on that side of the ball. DO I wish he was dominating offensively? Sure thing, but he is not asked to be dominant in this offense, and I dont think Booker is either. There are many reliable scoring options.

I am not sitting there praying that Josh Jackson, Bender, or even Oubre have a good offensive game just to have a chance to be in it at the end. It seems like every option we have can have a good game, from Cam Johnson to Cam Payne. I mean I dont expect many games where Frank or Smith score 15 or even 20, but the players that have been playing give me little worry.

That being said, I got to thinking about Ayton and his role. I am sure this has been discussed before, maybe ad nauseum, but does anyone think Ayton was drafted two decades too late? Do you think that we were so desperate or short sighted to get a franchise center, that we ignored the current state of the NBA where bigs are not as relevant? I am not criticizing Ayton, or saying he's a bust whatsoever. I am saying that whether it be McDonough, or Sarver, or even ourselves, did we just fall in love with the idea of drafting a potential superstar big, that we completely ignored that the league is built on Three point shooting at the moment?

Last year I was complaining that they were not giving Ayton the ball enough. I am beginning to understand now, at least I think I am, that Ayton will never get to his true offensive potential because in this era its not an inside out game anymore, and its now a outside in type of league. Just my humble opinion.

Yeah, I think you're right about C's and it's why myself and several others were screaming for Luka that draft.

With that said if the Lakers are going to be the team to beat the next 5 years then maybe bigs become more important.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

I am not criticizing Ayton's play at all. I think he has been above average to great on the defensive side of the ball. Only complaint there is he still needs to improve his help defense. I see too often that when a guard gets by Book or CP3, he is afraid or unwilling to leave his man. Or he is jut not rotating fast enough. He seems energized on that side of the court. Conversely, there are times where he looks really tired on offense. Honestly, that is my only complaint on that side of the ball. DO I wish he was dominating offensively? Sure thing, but he is not asked to be dominant in this offense, and I dont think Booker is either. There are many reliable scoring options.

I am not sitting there praying that Josh Jackson, Bender, or even Oubre have a good offensive game just to have a chance to be in it at the end. It seems like every option we have can have a good game, from Cam Johnson to Cam Payne. I mean I dont expect many games where Frank or Smith score 15 or even 20, but the players that have been playing give me little worry.

That being said, I got to thinking about Ayton and his role. I am sure this has been discussed before, maybe ad nauseum, but does anyone think Ayton was drafted two decades too late? Do you think that we were so desperate or short sighted to get a franchise center, that we ignored the current state of the NBA where bigs are not as relevant? I am not criticizing Ayton, or saying he's a bust whatsoever. I am saying that whether it be McDonough, or Sarver, or even ourselves, did we just fall in love with the idea of drafting a potential superstar big, that we completely ignored that the league is built on Three point shooting at the moment?

Last year I was complaining that they were not giving Ayton the ball enough. I am beginning to understand now, at least I think I am, that Ayton will never get to his true offensive potential because in this era its not an inside out game anymore, and its now a outside in type of league. Just my humble opinion.

Yes, I think that was one of the arguments to go Luka in the draft, was because bigs are just not where the league is going.

To counter the help D stuff, I thought he was better last year, but had a lot of lapses and was not good with it during the bubble.

But I constantly now see him leave his man and slide in front of whoever is attacking in the paint...maybe even more than once on the same possession. This has really surprised me. I'm sure there are still things to work on, but he has improved tremendously with help D...that's been his primary improvement to me on the defensive side.

Again, on offense, I don't care that much...I would like a few more offensive rebounds and a nice pick and roll game and that is a work in process. He is getting better at being aggressive taking it to the basket, driving from the free throw line and finishing as well as finishing other plays, even if he doesn't dunk it as many people long for.

It would be nice for him to develop a reliable 3 ball so he can pull bigs like Gobert out of the paint to make things easier on our guards, but I think he's slowly working on that as well.

[bwgood77]

I am not criticizing Ayton's play at all. I think he has been above average to great on the defensive side of the ball. Only complaint there is he still needs to improve his help defense. I see too often that when a guard gets by Book or CP3, he is afraid or unwilling to leave his man. Or he is jut not rotating fast enough. He seems energized on that side of the court. Conversely, there are times where he looks really tired on offense. Honestly, that is my only complaint on that side of the ball. DO I wish he was dominating offensively? Sure thing, but he is not asked to be dominant in this offense, and I dont think Booker is either. There are many reliable scoring options.

I am not sitting there praying that Josh Jackson, Bender, or even Oubre have a good offensive game just to have a chance to be in it at the end. It seems like every option we have can have a good game, from Cam Johnson to Cam Payne. I mean I dont expect many games where Frank or Smith score 15 or even 20, but the players that have been playing give me little worry.

That being said, I got to thinking about Ayton and his role. I am sure this has been discussed before, maybe ad nauseum, but does anyone think Ayton was drafted two decades too late? Do you think that we were so desperate or short sighted to get a franchise center, that we ignored the current state of the NBA where bigs are not as relevant? I am not criticizing Ayton, or saying he's a bust whatsoever. I am saying that whether it be McDonough, or Sarver, or even ourselves, did we just fall in love with the idea of drafting a potential superstar big, that we completely ignored that the league is built on Three point shooting at the moment?

Last year I was complaining that they were not giving Ayton the ball enough. I am beginning to understand now, at least I think I am, that Ayton will never get to his true offensive potential because in this era its not an inside out game anymore, and its now a outside in type of league. Just my humble opinion.

Yeah, I think you're right about C's and it's why myself and several others were screaming for Luka that draft.

With that said if the Lakers are going to be the team to beat the next 5 years then maybe bigs become more important.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, with the Lakers, Giannis and the Bucks being the best team by far last year and maybe by the end this year, and with Embiid and the Sixers with the current best record, having a defensive big is a nice thing to have.

[bigfoot]

I am not criticizing Ayton's play at all. I think he has been above average to great on the defensive side of the ball. Only complaint there is he still needs to improve his help defense. I see too often that when a guard gets by Book or CP3, he is afraid or unwilling to leave his man. Or he is jut not rotating fast enough. He seems energized on that side of the court. Conversely, there are times where he looks really tired on offense. Honestly, that is my only complaint on that side of the ball. DO I wish he was dominating offensively? Sure thing, but he is not asked to be dominant in this offense, and I dont think Booker is either. There are many reliable scoring options.

I am not sitting there praying that Josh Jackson, Bender, or even Oubre have a good offensive game just to have a chance to be in it at the end. It seems like every option we have can have a good game, from Cam Johnson to Cam Payne. I mean I dont expect many games where Frank or Smith score 15 or even 20, but the players that have been playing give me little worry.

That being said, I got to thinking about Ayton and his role. I am sure this has been discussed before, maybe ad nauseum, but does anyone think Ayton was drafted two decades too late? Do you think that we were so desperate or short sighted to get a franchise center, that we ignored the current state of the NBA where bigs are not as relevant? I am not criticizing Ayton, or saying he's a bust whatsoever. I am saying that whether it be McDonough, or Sarver, or even ourselves, did we just fall in love with the idea of drafting a potential superstar big, that we completely ignored that the league is built on Three point shooting at the moment?

Last year I was complaining that they were not giving Ayton the ball enough. I am beginning to understand now, at least I think I am, that Ayton will never get to his true offensive potential because in this era its not an inside out game anymore, and its now a outside in type of league. Just my humble opinion.

Yeah, I think you're right about C's and it's why myself and several others were screaming for Luka that draft.

With that said if the Lakers are going to be the team to beat the next 5 years then maybe bigs become more important.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, with the Lakers, Giannis and the Bucks being the best team by far last year and maybe by the end this year, and with Embiid and the Sixers with the current best record, having a defensive big is a nice thing to have.

Yeah I do agree his help defense has been lacking but all-around he is making a big difference on the defensive end. I'll take the 12+ rebounds any day and can live with fewer points until his offensive game comes around in three-to-four years. Really he's never going to be a major offensive force with Booker and Paul in the starting unit and Bridges' growth in that area for the next two seasons.

[sundevil1999]

Fair enough points on the help d stuff. The only criticism I might add is does any one think he's out of shape?

[Revived]

He’s only 22 so he can definitely prove me wrong but based on what he’s shown in 3 years, I don’t think Ayton’s ever gonna live up the expectations that many analysts and fans had for him on offense before the draft. He’s not gonna be creating his own shot many times and his role offensively will always be that of a Tyson Chandler or Clint Capela type at best where he simply finishes pick and rolls and nothing more because he just doesn’t have the talent to do much more against NBA caliber bigs. Even his recent 20 pt game was almost all assisted baskets. He’s never gonna be a player that they can just throw the ball down to and expect him to get a good shot or draw fouls.

That being said, I think Ayton’s realized by now that he can still make a name for himself in this league with just being an elite defender and rebounder. His individual defense is very good for the most part (though Siakam made him look him bad in the last game) and his rim protection is game changing when he’s trying. He’s been somewhat inconsistent with it and some games he protects the rim extremely well and others he just ball watches and hopes the player driving misses the wide open layup so he can just grab the rebound.

It is weird though, Ayton is a player that finishes plays at the rim without dunks and he protects the rim without blocks (averaging just 1 BPG on 30 mins of play). It’s very Boris Diaw-like who’s impact never showed much in stats or highlight play but was still very effective. Just weird because Diaw wasn’t very athletic so kinda explains his case while Ayton is supposed to be this athletic marvel so he shouldn’t be having that same problem.

I do wish we had a player that can score inside for us and give us a legitimate inside scoring presence for the days when our 3s and jumpers aren’t falling. It would help if Ayton got to the FT line a bit more. Joel Embiid, for example, at Ayton’s same age averaged 8 FT attempts a game. Ayton’s currently at 3 FT attempts a game which is almost entirely through just pick and roll.

Oh well, I hope he can continue to progress defensively and continues to play this Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela role on offense to the best of his abilities. Luckily for Ayton, in the long run if Bridges really comes on as the #2 option and Cam Johnson perhaps progresses as the #3 option even off the bench, then Ayton’s scoring won’t really be needed except for days when the outside shots aren’t falling.

[Saberestar]

He’s only 22 so he can definitely prove me wrong but based on what he’s shown in 3 years, I don’t think Ayton’s ever gonna live up the expectations that many analysts and fans had for him on offense before the draft. He’s not gonna be creating his own shot many times and his role offensively will always be that of a Tyson Chandler or Clint Capela type at best where he simply finishes pick and rolls and nothing more because he just doesn’t have the talent to do much more against NBA caliber bigs. Even his recent 20 pt game was almost all assisted baskets. He’s never gonna be a player that they can just throw the ball down to and expect him to get a good shot or draw fouls.

That being said, I think Ayton’s realized by now that he can still make a name for himself in this league with just being an elite defender and rebounder. His individual defense is very good for the most part (though Siakam made him look him bad in the last game) and his rim protection is game changing when he’s trying. He’s been somewhat inconsistent with it and some games he protects the rim extremely well and others he just ball watches and hopes the player driving misses the wide open layup so he can just grab the rebound.

It is weird though, Ayton is a player that finishes plays at the rim without dunks and he protects the rim without blocks (averaging just 1 BPG on 30 mins of play). It’s very Boris Diaw-like who’s impact never showed much in stats or highlight play but was still very effective. Just weird because Diaw wasn’t very athletic so kinda explains his case while Ayton is supposed to be this athletic marvel so he shouldn’t be having that same problem.

I do wish we had a player that can score inside for us and give us a legitimate inside scoring presence for the days when our 3s and jumpers aren’t falling. It would help if Ayton got to the FT line a bit more. Joel Embiid, for example, at Ayton’s same age averaged 8 FT attempts a game. Ayton’s currently at 3 FT attempts a game which is almost entirely through just pick and roll.

Oh well, I hope he can continue to progress defensively and continues to play this Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela role on offense to the best of his abilities. Luckily for Ayton, in the long run if Bridges really comes on as the #2 option and Cam Johnson perhaps progresses as the #3 option even off the bench, then Ayton’s scoring won’t really be needed except for days when the outside shots aren’t falling.

How many times have you seen Chandler or Capela facing a defender and scoring a mid range shot?

That comparison is off because Ayton is much better on offense than those guys at their age. Well, at the same age and forever. Way better FT shooter too. He is basically more skilled and he can do a lot more things than those guys.

It is true that Ayton can not create his own shot consistently yet, but he is not only a finisher at the rim.

Teams are ready to stop him in his rolls AND they try hard to deny him the ball all around the paint area because of his soft touch and that allow our shooters to have enough space to do their damage.

The only problem here are superhigh expectations from the fans IMO. Obviously he is not looking like David Robinson, Shaq or Olajuwon but people need to stop with that expectations.

Ayton is very good on his own, but those guys are the best of the best in the history of the **** game, not easy to get there even working extra hard on his game.

[Revived]

He’s only 22 so he can definitely prove me wrong but based on what he’s shown in 3 years, I don’t think Ayton’s ever gonna live up the expectations that many analysts and fans had for him on offense before the draft. He’s not gonna be creating his own shot many times and his role offensively will always be that of a Tyson Chandler or Clint Capela type at best where he simply finishes pick and rolls and nothing more because he just doesn’t have the talent to do much more against NBA caliber bigs. Even his recent 20 pt game was almost all assisted baskets. He’s never gonna be a player that they can just throw the ball down to and expect him to get a good shot or draw fouls.

That being said, I think Ayton’s realized by now that he can still make a name for himself in this league with just being an elite defender and rebounder. His individual defense is very good for the most part (though Siakam made him look him bad in the last game) and his rim protection is game changing when he’s trying. He’s been somewhat inconsistent with it and some games he protects the rim extremely well and others he just ball watches and hopes the player driving misses the wide open layup so he can just grab the rebound.

It is weird though, Ayton is a player that finishes plays at the rim without dunks and he protects the rim without blocks (averaging just 1 BPG on 30 mins of play). It’s very Boris Diaw-like who’s impact never showed much in stats or highlight play but was still very effective. Just weird because Diaw wasn’t very athletic so kinda explains his case while Ayton is supposed to be this athletic marvel so he shouldn’t be having that same problem.

I do wish we had a player that can score inside for us and give us a legitimate inside scoring presence for the days when our 3s and jumpers aren’t falling. It would help if Ayton got to the FT line a bit more. Joel Embiid, for example, at Ayton’s same age averaged 8 FT attempts a game. Ayton’s currently at 3 FT attempts a game which is almost entirely through just pick and roll.

Oh well, I hope he can continue to progress defensively and continues to play this Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela role on offense to the best of his abilities. Luckily for Ayton, in the long run if Bridges really comes on as the #2 option and Cam Johnson perhaps progresses as the #3 option even off the bench, then Ayton’s scoring won’t really be needed except for days when the outside shots aren’t falling.

How many times have you seen Chandler or Capela facing a defender and scoring a mid range shot?

That comparison is off because Ayton is much better on offense than those guys at their age. Well, at the same age and forever. Way better FT shooter too. He is basically more skilled and he can do a lot more things than those guys.

It is true that Ayton can not create his own shot consistently yet, but he is not only a finisher at the rim.

Teams are ready to stop him in his rolls AND they try hard to deny him the ball all around the paint area because of his soft touch and that allow our shooters to have enough space to do their damage.

The only problem here are superhigh expectations from the fans IMO. Obviously he is not looking like David Robinson, Shaq or Olajuwon but people need to stop with that expectations.

Ayton is very good on his own, but those guys are the best of the best in the history of the **** game, not easy to get there even working extra hard on his game.

I watched a lot of the Rockets play when they had CP3 and Harden and yes, the threat of Capela rolling on the pick and roll led to many open 3s for their shooters like Gordon, Tucker etc. So sure, Ayton is having that same impact for us as well where the threat of him rolling is opening up things for our shooters. And when the defenders stay home on those shooters, Ayton is able to finish those pick and rolls for points like he did in the 20 pt game he had recently. I thought I mentioned it in my post but I do admit you are correct about him being a better FT shooter than those guys. Sucks he hardly gets to the line to take advantage of it.

This idea that he needs to be Shaq isn’t from fans...it’s from Ayton himself! Ayton has compared himself to Shaq both before and after the draft.

But no, I don’t think many fans expect him to have a Shaq or David Robinson type game on offense. I think they expect a Joel Embiid or Karl Anthony Towns type game instead. And again, I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen. His one and only offensive move that he has in his arsenal over 3 years of professional basketball experience is the jab step, 15 ft jumper. And it’s not something he developed over 3 years either, he had that in his first game in the league and that’s still the only thing he has.

From reading your post though, I think you agree as well that he will never have Embiid or Towns type game offensively. But thankfully, he is much better defensively than Towns.

[Saberestar]

He’s only 22 so he can definitely prove me wrong but based on what he’s shown in 3 years, I don’t think Ayton’s ever gonna live up the expectations that many analysts and fans had for him on offense before the draft. He’s not gonna be creating his own shot many times and his role offensively will always be that of a Tyson Chandler or Clint Capela type at best where he simply finishes pick and rolls and nothing more because he just doesn’t have the talent to do much more against NBA caliber bigs. Even his recent 20 pt game was almost all assisted baskets. He’s never gonna be a player that they can just throw the ball down to and expect him to get a good shot or draw fouls.

That being said, I think Ayton’s realized by now that he can still make a name for himself in this league with just being an elite defender and rebounder. His individual defense is very good for the most part (though Siakam made him look him bad in the last game) and his rim protection is game changing when he’s trying. He’s been somewhat inconsistent with it and some games he protects the rim extremely well and others he just ball watches and hopes the player driving misses the wide open layup so he can just grab the rebound.

It is weird though, Ayton is a player that finishes plays at the rim without dunks and he protects the rim without blocks (averaging just 1 BPG on 30 mins of play). It’s very Boris Diaw-like who’s impact never showed much in stats or highlight play but was still very effective. Just weird because Diaw wasn’t very athletic so kinda explains his case while Ayton is supposed to be this athletic marvel so he shouldn’t be having that same problem.

I do wish we had a player that can score inside for us and give us a legitimate inside scoring presence for the days when our 3s and jumpers aren’t falling. It would help if Ayton got to the FT line a bit more. Joel Embiid, for example, at Ayton’s same age averaged 8 FT attempts a game. Ayton’s currently at 3 FT attempts a game which is almost entirely through just pick and roll.

Oh well, I hope he can continue to progress defensively and continues to play this Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela role on offense to the best of his abilities. Luckily for Ayton, in the long run if Bridges really comes on as the #2 option and Cam Johnson perhaps progresses as the #3 option even off the bench, then Ayton’s scoring won’t really be needed except for days when the outside shots aren’t falling.

How many times have you seen Chandler or Capela facing a defender and scoring a mid range shot?

That comparison is off because Ayton is much better on offense than those guys at their age. Well, at the same age and forever. Way better FT shooter too. He is basically more skilled and he can do a lot more things than those guys.

It is true that Ayton can not create his own shot consistently yet, but he is not only a finisher at the rim.

Teams are ready to stop him in his rolls AND they try hard to deny him the ball all around the paint area because of his soft touch and that allow our shooters to have enough space to do their damage.

The only problem here are superhigh expectations from the fans IMO. Obviously he is not looking like David Robinson, Shaq or Olajuwon but people need to stop with that expectations.

Ayton is very good on his own, but those guys are the best of the best in the history of the **** game, not easy to get there even working extra hard on his game.

I watched a lot of the Rockets play when they had CP3 and Harden and yes, the threat of Capela rolling on the pick and roll led to many open 3s for their shooters like Gordon, Tucker etc. So sure, Ayton is having that same impact for us as well where the threat of him rolling is opening up things for our shooters. And when the defenders stay home on those shooters, Ayton is able to finish those pick and rolls for points like he did in the 20 pt game he had recently. I thought I mentioned it in my post but I do admit you are correct about him being a better FT shooter than those guys. Sucks he hardly gets to the line to take advantage of it.

This idea that he needs to be Shaq isn’t from fans...it’s from Ayton himself! Ayton has compared himself to Shaq both before and after the draft.

But no, I don’t think many fans expect him to have a Shaq or David Robinson type game on offense. I think they expect a Joel Embiid or Karl Anthony Towns type game instead. And again, I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen. His one and only offensive move that he has in his arsenal over 3 years of professional basketball experience is the jab step, 15 ft jumper. And it’s not something he developed over 3 years either, he had that in his first game in the league and that’s still the only thing he has.

From reading your post though, I think you agree as well that he will never have Embiid or Towns type game offensively. But thankfully, he is much better defensively than Towns.

The difference between Ayton and players like Capela and Chandler is that Ayton can score and produce in any place around the paint.

His fantastic touch in close shots makes him way more dangerous on offense than these player who are just a lob/putback threat.

[bwgood77]

How many times have you seen Chandler or Capela facing a defender and scoring a mid range shot?

That comparison is off because Ayton is much better on offense than those guys at their age. Well, at the same age and forever. Way better FT shooter too. He is basically more skilled and he can do a lot more things than those guys.

It is true that Ayton can not create his own shot consistently yet, but he is not only a finisher at the rim.

Teams are ready to stop him in his rolls AND they try hard to deny him the ball all around the paint area because of his soft touch and that allow our shooters to have enough space to do their damage.

The only problem here are superhigh expectations from the fans IMO. Obviously he is not looking like David Robinson, Shaq or Olajuwon but people need to stop with that expectations.

Ayton is very good on his own, but those guys are the best of the best in the history of the **** game, not easy to get there even working extra hard on his game.

Yeah, a lot way off on that post you responded to, especially defensively. Blaming a defender on what guy's stat line isn't genuine because of all the switching. Also, Ayton has been providing great help D in the paint, sliding in front of defenders when his guy doesn't have the ball. Not even the best Cs or defenders will stop everyone getting to the rim because they won't always be there depending on who they are guarding, especially with a stretch 5 like Baynes. Gobert doesn't stop Booker every time..the list goes on.

Offensively he is better than all but 4-5 centers like Towns, Embiid, Jokic and Vucevic..maybe 1 or 2 more, but can do a lot more than a Chandler or Capela for sure...even a this young age.

He is a great passer.

Expectations were not sky high for me and he's already exceeded them. I never thought he would be Robinson, Shaq or Hakeem. No one in the NBA will be....few guys ever will be, if any. Players are different these days anyway.

[Maze]

Ayton's a con imo.I don't think he wants the responsibility that comes with being a franchise centerpiece.He's talented, but his heart is weak.He'd rather just be a 4th/5th option hustle player...Ironically who doesn't really hustle.He's just talented enough to put up pretty stats with minimum to average effort.Next to Brandon Knight, no Suns player has ever frustrated me more than Ayton.He's a mirage to me.Fluff stats.Hot air.If the Suns traded him today, I wouldn't regret it.Doubt I'd ever be made to regret it down the road.In fact, if the Suns fail to make the playoffs this year, I'd like to see the team just blow it up again.Get him and Booker out of here.This season should be the last of the Devin Booker era.You can just feel it in your gut.It's time.Ayton would probably make a decent trade piece.

[sunsbg]

As one of his supporters back to rookie year as I have always seen the talent in Ayton I was disappointed by his comment 'I don't care about offense'. Haven't seen anyone criticize him for this comment either. You are the Nr1 pick, you should care about both offense and defense. Then there is the obvious lack of chemistry with Booker offensively. Jones probably already planning some upgrades for the future.

[sunsbg]

The player DA always reminded me the most, Pat Ewing. Needs to model his game after him. (mostly mid-range jumpers, still enough for efficient 23-24ppg). The game was different back then though, 3s not comprising 58% of all shots + mostly layups on fast breaks and against no interior D. Personally I like the game-style in the clip much better than current 3pt shootout. There are often threads on GB suggesting many feel the same.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=HouseofHighlights

[bwgood77]

Y'all crazy if you think DA isn't balling so far this season. His presence is felt both sides, his improvement in d is eye popping. He literally can switch onto anyone and won't be a mismatch. The fact he doesn't score as much as you would want is clearly a scheme side-effect, they don't run any plays for him, we're just constantly looking for the open 3. There were many instances that I saw DA establish post position and getting ignored. But I love the ball movement on the perimeter so I won't complain. And on the notion that he doesn't score the way you want him to (dunks etc) is ridiculous, TD made a HOF career out of a bank shot, so let's just let him operate in his comfort zone.

Yeah, it's crazy. Just looking at last night's game, when Monty threw in Saric because they were playing big, it reminded you of how Saric just isn't equipped to be a starter...he just can't defend solid or quick 4s, or starting 5s. He was outmatched.

If Ayton had been out in most of these games this season, we would be looking very poorly. For years and years we lost the rebounding battle badly.

Ayton is in another world compared to Len, Bender, even ex DPOY and #2 overall pick Tyson Chandler.

I can understand people wanting more out of such a talented player. How they miss Amare's ferociousness on offense. But no one misses Amare's defense.

Ayton is simply playing great defense 80-90% of the time, rebounding a ton, scoring extremely efficiently. He missed one shot last night, and his TS% is now at 63%.

I did happen to miss the play where he missed a layup he could have dunked but I guess got fouled instead....so of course I wish he would dunk rather than miss a lay up, so he does need to dunk more, despite typically being efficient regardless, because you don't want that occasional miss.

He has obviously been a large focus of the opposing defense, and his chemistry with CP3 isn't quite there yet, and Booker has never been a very good passer to him, but averaging 13.4/11.4 with great defense and a 63% TS% is pretty nice as they work things out.

He's not always going to score a lot when they don't get him a lot of shots...like the 8 he got last night where he hit 7.

And when you have 7 guys scoring in double digits and a lot of depth you may not have guys scoring as much, as both Booker and DA's ppg have dropped by 5.

But he still is the most efficient scorer of the starters, along with the elte defense and rebounding, and the team would likely really suffer if he was out for an extended period of time.

[Revived]

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Ayton’s gotta work on this stuff. He needs to look for his own shot more. One of the main reasons CP3 was brought here was to elevate Ayton’s offensive game and yet it’s not happening.

With Booker struggling the way he has, we need Ayton to be a force inside. We drafted Ayton so we have an inside scorer on the days when we can’t hit 3s. Yet he doesn’t help much in that regard because he’s so passive and doesn’t demand the ball.

That last sentence is one that people have been saying since his rookie season and we’ve gone through 3 starting PGs during that time and yet Ayton still has the same issue.

[bwgood77]

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Ayton’s gotta work on this stuff. He needs to look for his own shot more. One of the main reasons CP3 was brought here was to elevate Ayton’s offensive game and yet it’s not happening.

With Booker struggling the way he has, we need Ayton to be a force inside. We drafted Ayton so we have an inside scorer on the days when we can’t hit 3s. Yet he doesn’t help much in that regard because he’s so passive and doesn’t demand the ball.

That last sentence is one that people have been saying since his rookie season and we’ve gone through 3 starting PGs during that time and yet Ayton still has the same issue.

That's kind of a weird play for Cooper to point out, as he was triple teamed..you don't want him trying to pull a Josh Jackson or Kelly Oubre shot there. He didn't look at Bridges until he saw the two guys right in front of him and then probably out of the corner of his eye saw Bridges right there wide open after his man had left him too.

[lilfishi22]

I'm over Ayton ever becoming a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd option on an elite team. Ayton's comment about not being focused on offense and having largely stagnant offense since he joined the NBA doesn't bother me anymore because I've stopped expecting him to be much more on that side of the court. If his peak is Gobert with less weaknesses on both sides of the court then that's a pretty good player.

What I was and continue to be frustrated with is just small things like not taking it to the basketball with force. Is he just lazy? Missing opportunities for anything (points, FTA's) because he decides to lay it up (unsuccessfully) when he should have and could have put a little more effort into getting close to the basket is what I'm talking about. On most nights he's the biggest and most athletic big on the court but so often when he has single coverage as a roll man or a few steps from the basket with minimal defense, he'd pass it off.

A lot of times those passes are good and what we want but then again, a lot of those passes just aren't what we need when we need to get to the line and points in the paint. That's what we need from him