Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[payitforward]

...To be fair, I'm evaluating this from the perspective of Bertans drawing offers of a first-round pick (and, if I recall correctly, at least one offer of two) at the deadline last season, and that was as an expiring contract. If we're getting rid of him, that's the route I'd strongly prefer to go....

I'm pretty sure you are mis-remembering -- there was an offer of 1 R1 pick for Bertans -- from Boston who, keep in mind, had 3 of them! It was either the #26 or the #30 that was on offer. Well... we can assume it was the #30 & that we'd probably have been able to negotiate that up to the #26.

We should have taken that offer, as I wrote at the time. I don't think anyone is about to offer even a single R1 pick for Bertans with $65m in guaranteed salary.

[NatP4]

I want Bryant next to a true rim protector. Without rim protection we're never gonna win. It's abysmal.

He's not a PF. He's a C. He has to be the rim protector. If not, he shouldn't be a starting C.

Why? He spaces the floor out on offense. There’s no reason why you can’t play a rim protecting PF next to him. There are plenty of those guys in the league. Isaac, Clarke, Adebayo to name a few. The wizards decided to pick a Rui.

[Eli Babak]

What about something like Bertans+Lopez to Boston for Thompson+Ojeleye+picks?

Westbrook 32/Brown 16
Beal 34/Brown 14
Bonga 30/Avdija 18
Hachimura 30/Avdija 12/Ojeleye 6
Bryant 30/Thompson 18

Waive Pasecniks, shop Smith/Neto/Robinson/Wagner (Gill is worthless and was a strange signing but let's be nice and let him experience one year in the NBA), fire Brooks, (hire Ujiri next summer)... One can dream...

I kinda like it. My first thought was that Boston would decline pretty quickly, but then I look at their roster and see their lack of depth at forward and think they might just go for this. The salaries don't work though. It would have to be Bertans and Wagner for Thompson and filler. That filler would probably have to be some of their young players on the roster rather than a future pick just to make the salaries match. So maybe Thompson + Langford + Ojeleye.

Boston have a crazy big trade exception from Hayward trade so they can use that to eat Bertans' salary. I'm not really interested in their young players, I'd rather have a late 1st and 1-2 2nds though I doubt Ainge would do that.

Bledsoe and Hart would also be nice return for Bertans - he's a one-trick pony after all. This roster has too many forwards (and 4 centers... and PGs who want playing time) right now, something has to be done. I'm scared Brown will be moved (while it would be good for him).

[nate33]

What about something like Bertans+Lopez to Boston for Thompson+Ojeleye+picks?

Westbrook 32/Brown 16
Beal 34/Brown 14
Bonga 30/Avdija 18
Hachimura 30/Avdija 12/Ojeleye 6
Bryant 30/Thompson 18

Waive Pasecniks, shop Smith/Neto/Robinson/Wagner (Gill is worthless and was a strange signing but let's be nice and let him experience one year in the NBA), fire Brooks, (hire Ujiri next summer)... One can dream...

I kinda like it. My first thought was that Boston would decline pretty quickly, but then I look at their roster and see their lack of depth at forward and think they might just go for this. The salaries don't work though. It would have to be Bertans and Wagner for Thompson and filler. That filler would probably have to be some of their young players on the roster rather than a future pick just to make the salaries match. So maybe Thompson + Langford + Ojeleye.

Boston have a crazy big trade exception from Hayward trade so they can use that to eat Bertans' salary. I'm not really interested in their young players, I'd rather have a late 1st and 1-2 2nds though I doubt Ainge would do that.

Bledsoe and Hart would also be nice return for Bertans - he's a one-trick pony after all. This roster has too many forwards (and 4 centers... and PGs who want playing time) right now, something has to be done. I'm scared Brown will be moved (while it would be good for him).

Forgot about that TPE. My bad. You are right. That's a pretty good trade.

[NatP4]

Yep, the Pelicans are just gonna hand us one of the better PGs in the NBA and a quality 25 year old role player for Bertans.

[NatP4]

How about Lopez&Robinson for Bam Adebayo? Miami probably adds a 2nd round pick.

[payitforward]

...It's hard for me to believe that the Pelicans would include Ingram for Beal..., but if they did I'd actually be pretty interested. He's taken big steps forward every year, and is now under contract for five more years - i.e. through age 28. If we could exchange Beal for Ingram and also get, say, Jaxson Hayes in the bargain without giving up much else (we can give them Wagner or whoever, and maybe take back a pick), I think I'd be quite happy with that. It's not possible for a few months, though, on account of Ingram having just signed his extension (same goes for any Bertans deal, fwiw). And again, I assume New Orleans would strongly prefer to convert their hoard from the Holiday trade directly back into another great player, not make the more lateral move of sending out a young star for a more proven one....

On the grounds you mention & for a bunch of other reasons too, there's no way NO would be interested in this.

...The other option I keep thinking about but am having trouble evaluating would be Beal to Orlando for a package based around Jonathan Isaac.... Beal + Robinson :: Isaac, Fournier, Okeke, 2022 1st, 2024 1st, 2025 swap option (or a couple 2nds in the next few drafts, whatever) seems like a good step in the direction of future contention instead of present stagnancy. I'm admittedly very high on Isaac

Again... why ever for Orlando? Does it make them a contender? No. Does it hamper their ability to become a contender over the next few years? Yes.

[NatP4]

Pre-ACL tear Jonathan Isaac would’ve been my number 1 target in a Beal trade. Probably still would do a trade centered around him and just tank while he’s out. very high on Isaac and love the fit on with our core of Avdija/Bryant/Bonga/Brown.

Orlando just lost Fultz for the season and probably has no intentions of buying right now

[Dark Faze]

I want Bryant next to a true rim protector. Without rim protection we're never gonna win. It's abysmal.

He's not a PF. He's a C. He has to be the rim protector. If not, he shouldn't be a starting C.

I'd like to at least try it rather than moving on from a talent like Bryant.

Starting East PF's:

Hawks: Collins
Celtics: Theis
Nets: Durant
Bulls : Markkanen
Cavs: Love
Pistons: Grant
Pacers: Sabonis
Heat: Harkless/Olynyk
Bucks: Giannis
Raptors: Siakam
Orlando: Gordon
Sixers: Harris
Knicks: Randle
Hornets: Washington/Hayward

The amount of players that you'd prefer Hachimura to guard on this list as opposed to Bryant probably isn't significant. There's the damned if you do, damned if you don't list: Collins, Giannis, Durant. Then there's the down hill guys that you'd probably prefer Bryant's length against: Randle, Siakam, Grant. Then the more plodding lengthy rebounders/shooters: Love, Olynyk, Markkanen, Sabonis who you'd prefer Bryant for as well.

My main point being I don't think we'd be hurt with Bryant at the 4 defensively if its backed up by a great rim protector at the 5. And on offense, Bryant would be fine, he's active, can score everywhere.

Westbrook
Beal
Rui
Bryant
Turner

I think that lineup would be good defensively. We'd give up more 3's, but probably produce more turnovers with our length and significantly decrease shots at the rim.

I'm done with "Bryant will get better defensively" argument. He's a woeful rim protector. Clearly the same can be said of Rui. So lets give them help rather than trying to force a bad situation into working.

[dckingsfan]

I will just say, we could trade for Turner but our coach would still have 2 PGs on the floor and Rui, Bryant and Turner would NEVER see the floor together. Ever.

This isn't a personnel issue, this is a coaching issue first and foremost.

[NatP4]

Hopefully Sheppard can make the simple deals at the deadline, move Neto for a 2nd round pick and give Winston/Mathews PT. Maybe we can get something for Ish/Robinson/Wagner. I don’t see how Bertans will have any value with his contract. They should’ve moved him at last years deadline.

[Dat2U]

I want Bryant next to a true rim protector. Without rim protection we're never gonna win. It's abysmal.

He's not a PF. He's a C. He has to be the rim protector. If not, he shouldn't be a starting C.

I'd like to at least try it rather than moving on from a talent like Bryant.

Starting East PF's:

Hawks: Collins
Celtics: Theis
Nets: Durant
Bulls : Markkanen
Cavs: Love
Pistons: Grant
Pacers: Sabonis
Heat: Harkless/Olynyk
Bucks: Giannis
Raptors: Siakam
Orlando: Gordon
Sixers: Harris
Knicks: Randle
Hornets: Washington/Hayward

The amount of players that you'd prefer Hachimura to guard on this list as opposed to Bryant probably isn't significant. There's the damned if you do, damned if you don't list: Collins, Giannis, Durant. Then there's the down hill guys that you'd probably prefer Bryant's length against: Randle, Siakam, Grant. Then the more plodding lengthy rebounders/shooters: Love, Olynyk, Markkanen, Sabonis who you'd prefer Bryant for as well.

My main point being I don't think we'd be hurt with Bryant at the 4 defensively if its backed up by a great rim protector at the 5. And on offense, Bryant would be fine, he's active, can score everywhere.

Westbrook
Beal
Rui
Bryant
Turner

I think that lineup would be good defensively. We'd give up more 3's, but probably produce more turnovers with our length and significantly decrease shots at the rim.

I'm done with "Bryant will get better defensively" argument. He's a woeful rim protector. Clearly the same can be said of Rui. So lets give them help rather than trying to force a bad situation into working.

Simple answer. You don't want Bryant defending in space. He does not possess the ideal foot speed for a C. How in world do you expect him to do any better against quicker, more skilled players?

[Dark Faze]

I will just say, we could trade for Turner but our coach would still have 2 PGs on the floor and Rui, Bryant and Turner would NEVER see the floor together. Ever.

This isn't a personnel issue, this is a coaching issue first and foremost.

It's true, however we've been there for many of these games in the last 6 minutes with our starters on the court we've been unable to get stops.

Now you can argue maybe we just hold a comfortable lead if all the rotations are on point, and it's probably true, but if we want any sort of playoff competency at all the rim protection must be addressed.

[Dark Faze]

Simple answer. You don't want Bryant defending in space. He does not possess the ideal foot speed for a C. How in world do you expect him to do any better against quicker, more skilled players?

The argument is that increasing the length, defensive rebounding, and rim protection would make up for more moments of having your 4 beat off the dribble, provided the player at C is good enough on defense to make this strategy worth it. Obviously it depends on the player.

Rui / Bryant is a layup at the rim. And it actually affects perimeter defense as well, when you've got zero confidence in rim protection from the front court guys ball watch more, they overhelp, it causes chaos and confusion everywhere.

[NatP4]

It’s true, and the answer isn’t Bryant at the 4 next to a rim protecting center, it’s improving the 1-4 positions defensively. This team would be great defensively if they had Brandon Clarke at the 4 instead of Rui. Giannis turned Brook Lopez into one of the better defensive bigs in the NBA.

If they even had a real NBA coach that implemented a defensive culture, and played the better defenders on the roster at the 1-4 positions, they would more of a 10-15 ranked defense as opposed to a dumpster fire. We have given Thomas Bryant 48 minutes of Rui and Bertans next to him at the PF position. Good luck with that. Neither of them rebound or block shots.....at all.

[Ruzious]

...It's hard for me to believe that the Pelicans would include Ingram for Beal..., but if they did I'd actually be pretty interested. He's taken big steps forward every year, and is now under contract for five more years - i.e. through age 28. If we could exchange Beal for Ingram and also get, say, Jaxson Hayes in the bargain without giving up much else (we can give them Wagner or whoever, and maybe take back a pick), I think I'd be quite happy with that. It's not possible for a few months, though, on account of Ingram having just signed his extension (same goes for any Bertans deal, fwiw). And again, I assume New Orleans would strongly prefer to convert their hoard from the Holiday trade directly back into another great player, not make the more lateral move of sending out a young star for a more proven one....

On the grounds you mention & for a bunch of other reasons too, there's no way NO would be interested in this.

...The other option I keep thinking about but am having trouble evaluating would be Beal to Orlando for a package based around Jonathan Isaac.... Beal + Robinson :: Isaac, Fournier, Okeke, 2022 1st, 2024 1st, 2025 swap option (or a couple 2nds in the next few drafts, whatever) seems like a good step in the direction of future contention instead of present stagnancy. I'm admittedly very high on Isaac

Again... why ever for Orlando? Does it make them a contender? No. Does it hamper their ability to become a contender over the next few years? Yes.

Let's not be too hasty. Remember the Aaron Gordon trade rumors were because folks couldn't see Gordon and Isaac playing together, and Gordon wasn't showing much improvement the last couple years. Well... while it's only 8 games, so far he looks much better this season, and Orlando has the best record in the East - without Isaac. This team is now built around Vucevic - who's quietly become an arguably great player. With Beal added, they could contend in the East this season.

[Dark Faze]

It’s true, and the answer isn’t Bryant at the 4 next to a rim protecting center, it’s improving the 1-4 positions defensively. This team would be great defensively if they had Brandon Clarke at the 4 instead of Rui. Giannis turned Brook Lopez into one of the better defensive bigs in the NBA.

If they even had a real NBA coach that implemented a defensive culture, and played the better defenders on the roster at the 1-4 positions, they would more of a 10-15 ranked defense as opposed to a dumpster fire. We have given Thomas Bryant 48 minutes of Rui and Bertans next to him at the PF position. Good luck with that. Neither of them rebound or block shots.....at all.

I don't disagree, do you have a list of guys that come to mind that might realistically be available at the 4?

[pcbothwel]

Yep, the Pelicans are just gonna hand us one of the better PGs in the NBA and a quality 25 year old role player for Bertans.

Bertans over the next 3 years will be younger, better, and cheaper than Eric Bledsoe. Bledsoe is 31 and has been on a steady decline for the last 3 years on both ends of the court.
So far this year, he is shooting about 39% on 3's which is keeping his efficiency up as he draws less fouls and drives less. If he maintains, great, but he is a career 34% shooter from 3 (also 34% over the last 3 years) and a regression to his career average there makes him a backup on any team looking to sniff the playoffs.

Im not saying he is bad. I like him and think its a toss up between him and Bertans depending on your needs... but to act as though Eric Bledsoe has considerable value over Bertans is lunacy. Lets not forget that over the last 3 years Bledsoe was in the playoffs with the Bucks he played 31 games and almost 1k minutes with a TS under 50%.

We can complain that he came in out of shape or whatever, but Bertans is getting his legs under him and improving. I have no interest in moving him for an older player in a lateral move. We should keep him or trade him for expiring filler and a pick(Or player on rookie deal) at the deadline. Anything else seems pointless right now.

[Frichuela]

To me, the first thing to try should be to axe Brooks above anything else. He is bad in whatever scenario: either keeping Beal/Westbrook and trying to compete, or trading Beal and rebuilding. Atkinson is my candidate as a replacement but I would be happy with others (e.g. Wes Unseld Jr).

Simultaneously, as a cheap (nothing-to-lose) fix I would sign RHJ and get rid of Robinson (or Anthony Gil). I know RHJ can not shoot, and that he would steal minutes that Bonga should get, but assuming Brooks refuses to play Bonga, RHJ is probably the best defensive SF/PF available out there. Mixing him with Bryant/Rui or Bryant/Avdija would provide an increase in steals, rebound and blocks. His stats per 36 min in these categories have been outstanding throughout his career.

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[nate33]

To me, the first thing to try should be to axe Brooks above anything else. He is bad in whatever scenario: either keeping Beal/Westbrook and trying to compete, or trading Beal and rebuilding. Atkinson is my candidate as a replacement but I would be happy with others (e.g. Wes Unseld Jr).

Simultaneously, as a cheap (nothing-to-lose) fix I would sign RHJ and get rid of Robinson (or Anthony Gil). I know RHJ can not shoot, and that he would steal minutes that Bonga should get, but assuming Brooks refuses to play Bonga, RHJ is probably the best defensive SF/PF available out there. Mixing him with Bryant/Rui or Bryant/Avdija would provide an increase in steals, rebound and blocks. His stats per 36 min in these categories have been outstanding throughout his career.

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I agree with firing Brooks. I don't see the need for RHJ. If Brooks was fired, Bonga would play and do the same things RHJ does but with better shooting.

The solution is right here in front of us. Just start Bonga and scrap the two PG lineup and the defense should improve a great deal with only minimal harm to the offense. I can even live with Robinson getting minutes, as long as it's at SG and not SF.