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Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit

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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#201 » by MrBigShot » Fri Jan 8, 2021 3:43 pm

Pharaoh wrote:So in your opinion it's more likely Weaver didn't think Wood was talented enough to keep as opposed to Wood choosing a better location to play ball?

Given his salary it's likely he had multiple offers but wanted Houston due to Westbrook and Harden (at the time).

Think it's possible his agent did a good job and ultimately got Wood included in the Draft Day deal we'd already arranged.

That way we can claim we got some kind of asset for losing our guy while the Rockets can argue they worked the cap well and landed a quality free agent despite not having cap room.

Idk, maybe it's just me but I'd like to think our FO is no longer dumb af and out of tune with the rest of the league.
MrBigShot wrote:If he was worried Wood would ruin the tank then why sign Grant & Plumlee? Two fairly seasoned NBA players ready to contribute from day 1, and in Grant's case ripe for an opportunity to take on a bigger role offensively than in Denver.

We literally did this same song and dance when Wood went on insta and said there was more to the story but people shrugged it off. Maybe Weaver just straight up lowballed Wood because he underestimated how talented he is.


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My opinion is that Weaver lowballed Wood because he did a poor job evaluating his talent.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#202 » by Sort » Fri Jan 8, 2021 3:46 pm

I supposed if people are enjoying this, go for it, but really, Wood no longer matters for the Pistons. Quite frankly, in a couple years, I imagine he won't matter for Houston or have mattered much either. I hope I'm wrong for it's far more interesting to see a player transform all the way.

I think the criticism of Weaver certainly holds weight. He certainly is not doing careful asset management. If he was though we would a questionable two-way player long term in Wood, Luke my-knees-are-already-45 Kennard and Bruce Brown and a lot of second round picks.

That may not work out, but I certainly don't lament the loss of that team.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#203 » by sfballa13 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:15 pm

Sort wrote:I supposed if people are enjoying this, go for it, but really, Wood no longer matters for the Pistons. Quite frankly, in a couple years, I imagine he won't matter for Houston or have mattered much either. I hope I'm wrong for it's far more interesting to see a player transform all the way.

I think the criticism of Weaver certainly holds weight. He certainly is not doing careful asset management. If he was though we would a questionable two-way player long term in Wood, Luke my-knees-are-already-45 Kennard and Bruce Brown and a lot of second round picks.

That may not work out, but I certainly don't lament the loss of that team.


Wood is averaging --> 24 pts / 10 rebounds / 2 assists / 2 blocks / 1 steal on 72% shooting

all while playing next to the biggest ball hog (by usage rate) in the NBA in James Harden

We re-sign Wood to a deal around 12 M...we keep Kennard (5M), Brown (1.6M) and can combine all three players WITHOUT LOSING FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS for a much better trade haul then what we got from Clippers/Brooklyn

This is the worst Pistons offseason in recent and maybe franchise history
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#204 » by Pharaoh » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:37 pm

Noted!

Considering all that extra time our FO had to evaluate and plan I'd suggest finding a different team to support since Weaver and his boys obviously spent all that time drinking and watching porn.

Or, possibly they didn't
MrBigShot wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:So in your opinion it's more likely Weaver didn't think Wood was talented enough to keep as opposed to Wood choosing a better location to play ball?

Given his salary it's likely he had multiple offers but wanted Houston due to Westbrook and Harden (at the time).

Think it's possible his agent did a good job and ultimately got Wood included in the Draft Day deal we'd already arranged.

That way we can claim we got some kind of asset for losing our guy while the Rockets can argue they worked the cap well and landed a quality free agent despite not having cap room.

Idk, maybe it's just me but I'd like to think our FO is no longer dumb af and out of tune with the rest of the league.
MrBigShot wrote:If he was worried Wood would ruin the tank then why sign Grant & Plumlee? Two fairly seasoned NBA players ready to contribute from day 1, and in Grant's case ripe for an opportunity to take on a bigger role offensively than in Denver.

We literally did this same song and dance when Wood went on insta and said there was more to the story but people shrugged it off. Maybe Weaver just straight up lowballed Wood because he underestimated how talented he is.


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My opinion is that Weaver lowballed Wood because he did a poor job evaluating his talent.


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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#205 » by Crymson » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:49 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Noted!

Considering all that extra time our FO had to evaluate and plan I'd suggest finding a different team to support since Weaver and his boys obviously spent all that time drinking and watching porn.


I'd suggest not talking at all rather than spouting strawmen and shoving words into other people's mouths.

I see that you want to believe in the new management and are upset at what you perceive as others here jumping to negative conclusions about its level of competence, but this is a discussion forum and your options boil down to either accepting that or not enjoying your time here. Either way, you're adding absolutely nothing positive to this community through your derision.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#206 » by Piston Pete » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:09 pm

And honestly, there are a couple ways of looking at Weaver

1) He had a terrible off-season

Some people don’t mind it because we’re now arguably the worst team in the league. It’s a good thing cuz it sets us up for a top-3 pick.

But I’m concerned because I think Weaver was legit trying to make us a good team and just failed miserably.

2) Management is finally embracing a rebuild

I doubt this. Again, I think Weaver just screwed up royally and we’re stuck being terrible despite his “efforts.” If we had embraced a rebuild, he would have been accumulating future picks instead of sending them away. He would not have spend every dime of our cap space and he would not have been trading for guys just to stretch/waive them.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#207 » by flow » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:43 pm

MrBigShot wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:So in your opinion it's more likely Weaver didn't think Wood was talented enough to keep as opposed to Wood choosing a better location to play ball?

Given his salary it's likely he had multiple offers but wanted Houston due to Westbrook and Harden (at the time).

Think it's possible his agent did a good job and ultimately got Wood included in the Draft Day deal we'd already arranged.

That way we can claim we got some kind of asset for losing our guy while the Rockets can argue they worked the cap well and landed a quality free agent despite not having cap room.

Idk, maybe it's just me but I'd like to think our FO is no longer dumb af and out of tune with the rest of the league.
MrBigShot wrote:If he was worried Wood would ruin the tank then why sign Grant & Plumlee? Two fairly seasoned NBA players ready to contribute from day 1, and in Grant's case ripe for an opportunity to take on a bigger role offensively than in Denver.

We literally did this same song and dance when Wood went on insta and said there was more to the story but people shrugged it off. Maybe Weaver just straight up lowballed Wood because he underestimated how talented he is.


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My opinion is that Weaver lowballed Wood because he did a poor job evaluating his talent.

Bingo.

Folks assuming there had to be an alternate reason like poor attitude or 'too good, will hinder the tank' have to remember something important. Christian Wood is not Michael Jordan. This is not a player universally acknowledged as a franchise player. Far from it. This is a guy who couldn't stick with a team the first 4 years of his career. He was a g-league player for the majority of his first 3 seasons. He was released multiple times, which is how he originally came to us. Even here, he was buried on the bench behind Thon F'ing Maker for the first half of last season. The point is, many teams, including the Thunder, had already decided he wasn't a player. We know otherwise because we have followed his evolution in Detroit closely. Weaver didn't follow that evolution like we did. He knows he played well, but it's still Christian Wood. He'd already scouted that player years ago and likely passed on him several times thereafter.

So to say Weaver didn't fully appreciate that what we, the Pistons, had in Christian Wood was real & big money-worthy, is not difficult to imagine. Terrible error on his part, but not unimaginable.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#208 » by Play007 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:01 pm

On the Troy Weaver, I really don't know if he had a terrible off-season or not, and I believe it is too early to tell.
However I do know this is the first time for a long time that we have a different off-season. It is refreshing to see that.
- On of the 15 players in the team, we have only 4 returning players from 2019-20.
- 5 Rookies on the team, 3 are in the regular rotation.

You can keep criticism his moves that you don't like. However he is definitely putting his stamp on the team and starting to make a change. and I will give him credit for it.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#209 » by MrBigShot » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:21 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Noted!

Considering all that extra time our FO had to evaluate and plan I'd suggest finding a different team to support since Weaver and his boys obviously spent all that time drinking and watching porn.

Or, possibly they didn't
MrBigShot wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:So in your opinion it's more likely Weaver didn't think Wood was talented enough to keep as opposed to Wood choosing a better location to play ball?

Given his salary it's likely he had multiple offers but wanted Houston due to Westbrook and Harden (at the time).

Think it's possible his agent did a good job and ultimately got Wood included in the Draft Day deal we'd already arranged.

That way we can claim we got some kind of asset for losing our guy while the Rockets can argue they worked the cap well and landed a quality free agent despite not having cap room.

Idk, maybe it's just me but I'd like to think our FO is no longer dumb af and out of tune with the rest of the league.

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My opinion is that Weaver lowballed Wood because he did a poor job evaluating his talent.


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Pharaoh you're a better poster than this post. I love this franchise chip or worst team in the league, as do the rest of the longtime fans here following this team. Criticizing Weaver for offering Wood 8 mil a year, the same amount offered to plumlee, shouldn't be a major point of contention.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#210 » by Play007 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:07 pm

Second attempt:
Again, 8 mill offering to Wood is not verified.
Spears removed it and edited his article.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#211 » by 440BB » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:19 pm

One possible scenario -

The new GM looks at the roster and pending free agents. Wood has great potential but isn't a great fit to the new defensive minded culture, yet is worth keeping if not too costly. Casey is happy with Wood but for whatever reason isn't lobbying hard to keep him. Weaver goes over the retooling plans with Wood, who indicates he prefers a winner and he wants to try out free agency. Weaver floats a number that is around the MLE as a starting point and Wood shops himself, particularly to Houston. Knowing Houston was interested last spring and having a history with Houston's new coach, he gets an offer as initially reported of about $9m/year, the most Houston can offer. Weaver offers a bit more but Wood decides he'd rather compete with Houston than rebuild in Detroit.

With this in mind Weaver salvages something from Wood's departure. As Houston can't offer him more but would if possible, they wrap the deal into the previous trade with the Pistons, improving the protection of the traded pick in return. Wood gets to play where he wanted for a bigger contract, Weaver helped him get the most money possible and everybody left things on good terms.

Just one possibility.

Going back to last January, when the Ed Stefanski guaranteed the rest of Wood's contract, Wood said:
“He told me he was going to try and re-sign me for next year, but we’ll see how it goes.”
Nothing Wood said after that showed he was interested in staying, topped off by his live instagram poll asking fans where he should play last October.

Weaver may have decided it was better to start the new team off without an uninterested player they were going to try to trade soon. It may have been the wrong decision but there were risks and variables we may not know.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#212 » by Sort » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:28 pm

sfballa13 wrote:
Sort wrote:I supposed if people are enjoying this, go for it, but really, Wood no longer matters for the Pistons. Quite frankly, in a couple years, I imagine he won't matter for Houston or have mattered much either. I hope I'm wrong for it's far more interesting to see a player transform all the way.

I think the criticism of Weaver certainly holds weight. He certainly is not doing careful asset management. If he was though we would a questionable two-way player long term in Wood, Luke my-knees-are-already-45 Kennard and Bruce Brown and a lot of second round picks.

That may not work out, but I certainly don't lament the loss of that team.


Wood is averaging --> 24 pts / 10 rebounds / 2 assists / 2 blocks / 1 steal on 72% shooting

all while playing next to the biggest ball hog (by usage rate) in the NBA in James Harden

We re-sign Wood to a deal around 12 M...we keep Kennard (5M), Brown (1.6M) and can combine all three players WITHOUT LOSING FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS for a much better trade haul then what we got from Clippers/Brooklyn

This is the worst Pistons offseason in recent and maybe franchise history


No doubt Wood is putting up a good numbers. Harden though is a playmaker - 11 assists this year per game - and he's getting Wood some shots he wouldn't be getting here, so the despite-playing-with-Harden argument doesn't vibe with me.

I think it is fair to say Weaver could have gotten more for Kennard and Brown, but Clips already whining about limitations and he started the season icing those knees. And the Nets clearly don't value Brown much right now.

We do value Bey.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#213 » by Play007 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:31 pm

440BB wrote:One possible scenario -

The new GM looks at the roster and pending free agents. Wood has great potential but isn't a great fit to the new defensive minded culture, yet is worth keeping if not too costly. Casey is happy with Wood but for whatever reason isn't lobbying hard to keep him. Weaver goes over the retooling plans with Wood, who indicates he prefers a winner and he wants to try out free agency. Weaver floats a number that is around the MLE as a starting point and Wood shops himself, particularly to Houston. Knowing Houston was interested last spring and having a history with Houston's new coach, he gets an offer as initially reported of about $9m/year, the most Houston can offer. Weaver offers a bit more but Wood decides he'd rather compete with Houston than rebuild in Detroit.

With this in mind Weaver salvages something from Wood's departure. As Houston can't offer him more but would if possible, they wrap the deal into the previous trade with the Pistons, improving the protection of the traded pick in return. Wood gets to play where he wanted for a bigger contract, Weaver helped him get the most money possible and everybody left things on good terms.

Just one possibility.

Going back to last January, when the Ed Stefanski guaranteed the rest of Wood's contract, Wood said:
“He told me he was going to try and re-sign me for next year, but we’ll see how it goes.”
Nothing Wood said after that showed he was interested in staying, topped off by his live instagram poll asking fans where he should play last October.

Weaver may have decided it was better to start the new team off without an uninterested player they were going to try to trade soon. It may have been the wrong decision but there were risks and variables we may not know.


It is one possibility, we may never know exactly what happened.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#214 » by Pharaoh » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:52 pm

As stated that part of the article has been removed.

If it's so easy for so many to assume that Weaver is completely incompetent why is it so hard to believe that someone out there assumes he's not?

As repeated plenty of times there were a few head scratching moves but for the most part I approve of what we've done.

Hayes, Stewart, Bey, Lee...Jackson, Okafor, Grant...

They've been careful not to use the word tank but it certainly seemed like we went that route without going full Hinkie. I stated that in training camp.

Youth does not win in the NBA. A rotation featuring 6 dudes 23 and under was never going to compete for the playoffs but you can, to use Casey's words "compete to win"!

I find the changing narratives to be a positive thing. Not that we all need to think alike and post alike but for a while there it did feel like some of us were poles apart.

Doesn't feel that way now that the games have shown Weaver's full intent.
MrBigShot wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Noted!

Considering all that extra time our FO had to evaluate and plan I'd suggest finding a different team to support since Weaver and his boys obviously spent all that time drinking and watching porn.

Or, possibly they didn't
MrBigShot wrote:
My opinion is that Weaver lowballed Wood because he did a poor job evaluating his talent.


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Pharaoh you're a better poster than this post. I love this franchise chip or worst team in the league, as do the rest of the longtime fans here following this team. Criticizing Weaver for offering Wood 8 mil a year, the same amount offered to plumlee, shouldn't be a major point of contention.


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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#215 » by Crymson » Sat Jan 9, 2021 1:12 am

Play007 wrote:Second attempt:
Again, 8 mill offering to Wood is not verified.
Spears removed it and edited his article.


James Edwards confirmed that Weaver was unwilling to offer Wood more than $10 million this season. Even if that $10 million were offered, that's a paltry $2.3 million less than Plumlee is earning. And Wood is vastly more capable.

Wood has great potential but isn't a great fit to the new defensive minded culture


I'll stop you right there, because Plumlee is a mediocre defender and Okafor is terrible.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#216 » by buzzkilloton » Sat Jan 9, 2021 1:43 am

Sort wrote:
sfballa13 wrote:
Sort wrote:I supposed if people are enjoying this, go for it, but really, Wood no longer matters for the Pistons. Quite frankly, in a couple years, I imagine he won't matter for Houston or have mattered much either. I hope I'm wrong for it's far more interesting to see a player transform all the way.

I think the criticism of Weaver certainly holds weight. He certainly is not doing careful asset management. If he was though we would a questionable two-way player long term in Wood, Luke my-knees-are-already-45 Kennard and Bruce Brown and a lot of second round picks.

That may not work out, but I certainly don't lament the loss of that team.


Wood is averaging --> 24 pts / 10 rebounds / 2 assists / 2 blocks / 1 steal on 72% shooting

all while playing next to the biggest ball hog (by usage rate) in the NBA in James Harden

We re-sign Wood to a deal around 12 M...we keep Kennard (5M), Brown (1.6M) and can combine all three players WITHOUT LOSING FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS for a much better trade haul then what we got from Clippers/Brooklyn

This is the worst Pistons offseason in recent and maybe franchise history


No doubt Wood is putting up a good numbers. Harden though is a playmaker - 11 assists this year per game - and he's getting Wood some shots he wouldn't be getting here, so the despite-playing-with-Harden argument doesn't vibe with me.

I think it is fair to say Weaver could have gotten more for Kennard and Brown, but Clips already whining about limitations and he started the season icing those knees. And the Nets clearly don't value Brown much right now.

We do value Bey.


Wood performed last year as a starter for us without Harden. His numbers were 21.9 9.4reb 56% FG and he shot 40.8% from 3. It was obv he was a baller and he should of started more games.

Casey just didnt give him the run he deserved only letting him start 12 games after Drummond was moved. It was clear to most fans Wood deserved more run. Actually, we almost kept JJ over him as a last guy thats how out of touch Casey is. Pistons fans were clamoring to keep Wood.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/christian-wood-stats-as-starter-for-pistons
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#217 » by Pharaoh » Sat Jan 9, 2021 1:56 am

Think it's far more likely Wood didn't want to waste another 2-3 years here while we "restore" the place.

Or some can believe Weaver didn't value his talent despite landing Bey, Stewart, Lee, Grant, Jackson in one short off-season
buzzkilloton wrote:
Sort wrote:
sfballa13 wrote:
Wood is averaging --> 24 pts / 10 rebounds / 2 assists / 2 blocks / 1 steal on 72% shooting

all while playing next to the biggest ball hog (by usage rate) in the NBA in James Harden

We re-sign Wood to a deal around 12 M...we keep Kennard (5M), Brown (1.6M) and can combine all three players WITHOUT LOSING FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS for a much better trade haul then what we got from Clippers/Brooklyn

This is the worst Pistons offseason in recent and maybe franchise history


No doubt Wood is putting up a good numbers. Harden though is a playmaker - 11 assists this year per game - and he's getting Wood some shots he wouldn't be getting here, so the despite-playing-with-Harden argument doesn't vibe with me.

I think it is fair to say Weaver could have gotten more for Kennard and Brown, but Clips already whining about limitations and he started the season icing those knees. And the Nets clearly don't value Brown much right now.

We do value Bey.


Wood performed last year as a starter for us without Harden. His numbers were 21.9 9.4reb 56% FG and he shot 40.8% from 3. It was obv he was a baller and he should of started more games.

Casey just didnt give him the run he deserved only letting him start 12 games after Drummond was moved. It was clear to most fans Wood deserved more run. Actually, we almost kept JJ over him as a last guy thats how out of touch Casey is. Pistons fans were clamoring to keep Wood.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/christian-wood-stats-as-starter-for-pistons


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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#218 » by Crymson » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:18 am

Pharaoh wrote:Think it's far more likely Wood didn't want to waste another 2-3 years here while we "restore" the place.


Said without basis, after you were forced to retreat from your conjectural claim that Wood didn't want to stay based on two vague comments from Instagram. Weaver wasn't willing to pay him anyway. Accept that reality. It's a fact.

Or some can believe Weaver didn't value his talent despite landing Bey, Stewart, Lee, Grant, Jackson in one short off-season


As if this lends any assurance with regards to his competence. He traded Kennard and four(!) second-round picks to a team that wanted what Kennard had to offer, drafted Stewart (a traditional center with a moderate ceiling) at a position that could have sacrificed the chance at Bey to begin with, drafted Lee (from whom we've seen nothing; exactly what are you claiming?) high in the second round when he could very possibly have had him outside of the draft, and paid upwards of $20 million per season for Grant to no apparent gain for a team that isn't trying to win. He also handed $25 million to Plumlee (an action that necessitated adding upwards of $17 million in dead cap through buyouts), a roundly mediocre traditional center; and inexplicably gave two years to Okafor, a dead-end traditional center. Jackson was a good move, but an elementary move: one of the imperatives of any successful rebuild is to take fliers on underdeveloped, underappreciated, or untapped talent, and Weaver did that with only a single player.

What about the above indicates to you an unambiguously outstanding offseason?
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#219 » by Play007 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:51 am

Crymson wrote:
Play007 wrote:Second attempt:
Again, 8 mill offering to Wood is not verified.
Spears removed it and edited his article.


James Edwards confirmed that Weaver was unwilling to offer Wood more than $10 million this season. Even if that $10 million were offered, that's a paltry $2.3 million less than Plumlee is earning. And Wood is vastly more capable.


I simply just stating that 8 mills was not verified as some are referencing.

Mason Plumlee signed a 3 year / $24,662,500 contract with the Detroit Pistons,

Houston initial offer was 27 million/3 year. Then someone up it and Houston came back with 41 millions/3 years.
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Re: Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit 

Post#220 » by sfballa13 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:17 am

Play007 wrote:
Crymson wrote:
Play007 wrote:Second attempt:
Again, 8 mill offering to Wood is not verified.
Spears removed it and edited his article.


James Edwards confirmed that Weaver was unwilling to offer Wood more than $10 million this season. Even if that $10 million were offered, that's a paltry $2.3 million less than Plumlee is earning. And Wood is vastly more capable.


I simply just stating that 8 mills was not verified as some are referencing.

Mason Plumlee signed a 3 year / $24,662,500 contract with the Detroit Pistons,

Houston initial offer was 27 million/3 year. Then someone up it and Houston came back with 41 millions/3 years.


Woods at 15M is a steal

Teams would be lining up to pay a guy 15M to put up 23 pts / 9 rebounds / 2 blocks on 54% shooting

Now imagine packaging up Wood in a deal with Rose, Kennard, Bruce Brown, four 2nd round draft picks, what do you think you could get back in a trade like that?

Weaver had every opportunity to create a great situation in Detroit and literally went out of his way to muck it up

Joke

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