Jerami Grant

[skywalker33]

my first post said somebody should apologize to Grant for questioning his inteligence for signing with Detroit, that's all

And I replied asking what you were inferring we apologize for, this is your response:

people here who said that his bb iq is low because he wants to go to detroit. By staying with us, Malone would give him way less usage than he deserves, which would cost him 10s of millions of dollars in his career.

You also implied his role would be more limited by Malone. He was averaging 27mpg and everyone expected his role to increase as he was believed to become our new starting PF, isn't that a "bigger role" ? (referring to your comment below)

you are probably young. He didn't go to have bettter statline, but to have bigger role that will be seen through statline that will ultimatelly get him money. Nba is bussines and players do it for money. There is a lot of sacrifices there. You can play pick up basketball in your yard for fun

I agree this is a business, he made what he believes was the best move for his career. While he is scoring more on his new team, when I look at his business opportunity, it is clouded by a couple of things. One he has two highly touted young players playing behind him in Sekou and Saddig, how long are they going to be sitting on the bench, that seems to be an open-ended question. Secondly, if it's about a financial decision, it's clear the money was EXACTLY the same, except he'd be 3rd or 4th option, he wanted to be "The Man,". My premise is exactly that ! He wanted to be "The Man". Back to the business part of it now. Leaving a team where he could've been a starter on a contending team for a starter on a lottery team just doesn't make sense unless it's purely ego related IMO. I'll question that all the time, as I am NOT A YOUNGSTER as you surmise, I've been watching basketball since the 70's, I go old-school, don't even try to be condescending with me, makes you look desperately bad.

I think in the long-run, a player (much like his uncle) will get more attention as a player with a ring (which he isn't going to get in DET) , more respect and possibly more endorsements playing on a championship-caliber team like this current Nuggets team.

If you want to say STUPID stuff, you may want to think before you put it in a post, it's hard to back-pedal.

i don't need to backpedal
u are quoting me and than explaining things that are not related to the quote in a logical way. i don't think there is anything more to explain as it's useless

USELESS ??? Like your post that we need to apologize to a man making $20M ??? And that ANYONE said he had a low BBIQ ??? Then you're right.

[The Rebel]

I agree this is a business, he made what he believes was the best move for his career. While he is scoring more on his new team, when I look at his business opportunity, it is clouded by a couple of things. One he has two highly touted young players playing behind him in Sekou and Saddig, how long are they going to be sitting on the bench, that seems to be an open-ended question. Secondly, if it's about a financial decision, it's clear the money was EXACTLY the same, except he'd be 3rd or 4th option, he wanted to be "The Man,". My premise is exactly that ! He wanted to be "The Man". Back to the business part of it now. Leaving a team where he could've been a starter on a contending team for a starter on a lottery team just doesn't make sense unless it's purely ego related IMO. I'll question that all the time, as I am NOT A YOUNGSTER as you surmise, I've been watching basketball since the 70's, I go old-school, don't even try to be condescending with me, makes you look desperately bad.

I think in the long-run, a player (much like his uncle) will get more attention as a player with a ring (which he isn't going to get in DET) , more respect and possibly more endorsements playing on a championship-caliber team like this current Nuggets team.

The more I think about it, the more I think some of us are wrong on this. Horace Grant was the 3rd star on 2 different teams that made the finals, the 1st 3 peat Bulls and the Shaq/Penny Magic. Grant could have easily went and been a star on a bad team, he is very underrated today because while Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Penny were the superstars and Grant was a lower end all star. Also being replaced by Rodman did not help.

The fact is you don't see or hear much about role players or even the 3rd star on most occasions after a few years. Most people had little memory of Kerr until he took over the Warriors. Rodman has always found ways to get attention, but where are the other guys on that team? HOw much do you even hear about Bosh after the Heatles? How often do you hear about Bynum after being the 3rd best guy on the Pau/Kobe Lakers? How many people remember Horace Grant had the 3rd most minutes in 2001 on the Shaq/Kobe 2nd championship team?

How many Nuggets fans that were around in the 90s remember Laphonso Ellis? Do you think people remember him if he was the 3rd or 4th guy on a championship team like his game was suited best for? Mutombo was the DPOY, 2nd team all NBA, 1st team all defense, and starting C on the 76ers team with AI that went to the finals, yet everybody says AI did it alone. My most significant memory of Mutombo will always be as a Nugget though.

I can understand why Grant left, I am still not sure he can be the face of the franchise long term, but it is better to be the star on a bad team than the 4th guy on a great team long term,

[skywalker33]

Let's check that out, let's go back to that 1993-94 season. Dominique Wilkins was the top scorer for what team that year...and it wasn't the Hawks ??? Do you remember the HOFer without looking it up ?? I didn't, totally forgot he scored 29.1ppg that year for the....














LA Clippers.

Can probably do the same thing with guys from the 2000's, 2010's, etc. They all fade but who can forget names like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Manu Ginobili, how about Robert Horry. All 3-4th options on championship teams.

[Maf]

Can probably do the same thing with guys from the 2000's, 2010's, etc. They all fade but who can forget names like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Manu Ginobili, how about Robert Horry. All 3-4th options on championship teams.

It's not that I want to disagree but that's it. They were on (multiple except Ben) championship teams. Sure, everyone remembers fifth wheel on Bulls/Lakers vehicle Ron Harper more than Ron Harper who were 20+ pts/g scorer on play-off teams at Cavs and Clippers.
But how 'bout those who didn't get that ring? You know, like how many really remember Kerry Kittles? Or Doug Christie? Or let's say guy like Jerome Kersey. With Portland in three years he was twice in finals and once in WCF. During that run he was their third leading scorer. Scored over ten thousands points in NBA. Or maybe the best one. Alton Lister. I mean that guy was starter for Bucks and Sonics and he was three times in four years in conference finals. And I bet ONLY thing anyone remembers about Anton Lister is being dunked on by Shawn Kemp.

So I mean it's nice to talk about guys who sacrificed their stats and glory and will be remembered as champions. But if they don't win, not many remembers them.

[The Rebel]

Let's check that out, let's go back to that 1993-94 season. Dominique Wilkins was the top scorer for what team that year...and it wasn't the Hawks ??? Do you remember the HOFer without looking it up ?? I didn't, totally forgot he scored 29.1ppg that year for the....














LA Clippers.

Can probably do the same thing with guys from the 2000's, 2010's, etc. They all fade but who can forget names like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Manu Ginobili, how about Robert Horry. All 3-4th options on championship teams.

It is funny you bring up Wilkins, as he really proves my point. Did you know that Wilkins only got out of the 2nd round 1 time in his career? How many starters can you name from those Hawks teams? I can name 1, Wilkins himself. I think Hastings was on some of those teams as well, but we all know he didn't start. Yet everybody remembers Wilkins.

Ben Wallace was the defensive star of a defensive team that won a championship due to that defense, if anything he was their most important player.

How often do you see Horry brought up on any message board? How many ads has he done? Where is he used a spokesperson? Sure people who watched remember him, but he is not exactly out there gathering endorsements.

The only time I see anything about Ginobli it is about him not being good enough to be a starter, and he just retired a couple of years ago. 5 years from now he will be forgotten.

Rodman is known for his crazy antics off the court, just like Kerr is now remember due to his time with the Warriors.

Let's talk about some other names.
Kevin Love is an afterthought at this point, I see a lot of posts talking about how good he was for the Twolves but that he was terrible for the Cavs. 10 years from now do you honestly think he is remembered as anything more than a footnote on those cavs teams? Yet Twolves fans will always remember him.

Wince Carter made it past the 1st round 1 time in Toronto, he made it past the 1st round 4 other times in his career as the 2nd option including a trip to the conference finals, yet everybody remembers him as a Raptor.

Michael Redd still gets talked about, and he was really only great for 2 seasons on a bad Bucks team.

Brandon Roy is talked about as if he was some future god that had his career derailed by injuries.

I still occasionally run across stuff about Ben Gordon on the Bulls, and he was not even a true quality starter on a championship team.

It is just human nature, when I tell my son about the Nuggets of the 80s and 90s I am not talking about Blair Rasmussen, Ellis and McDyess's huge potential in the late 90s is mentioned though. When I tell him about the Jordan Bulls Horace Grant is not a huge topic. 3rd, 4th, 5th guys are forgotten even on championship teams, that is just the way it goes. We all do it, and it is okay, but you have to realize that the best player on bad teams are not forgotten. fans of those teams remember those players for decades and that knowledge has always been passed down from one generation to the next.

[The Rebel]

Can probably do the same thing with guys from the 2000's, 2010's, etc. They all fade but who can forget names like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Manu Ginobili, how about Robert Horry. All 3-4th options on championship teams.

It's not that I want to disagree but that's it. They were on (multiple except Ben) championship teams. Sure, everyone remembers fifth wheel on Bulls/Lakers vehicle Ron Harper more than Ron Harper who were 20+ pts/g scorer on play-off teams at Cavs and Clippers.
But how 'bout those who didn't get that ring? You know, like how many really remember Kerry Kittles? Or Doug Christie? Or let's say guy like Jerome Kersey. With Portland in three years he was twice in finals and once in WCF. During that run he was their third leading scorer. Scored over ten thousands points in NBA. Or maybe the best one. Alton Lister. I mean that guy was starter for Bucks and Sonics and he was three times in four years in conference finals. And I bet ONLY thing anyone remembers about Anton Lister is being dunked on by Shawn Kemp.

So I mean it's nice to talk about guys who sacrificed their stats and glory and will be remembered as champions. But if they don't win, not many remembers them.

Who do you ever see talk about Ron Harper? I see Cavs fans, I have seen Clippers fans mention him, but when talking about the Bulls 3 peat or the 2 with Shaq and Kobe Lakers I don't ever see Harper brought up by anybody. He was not seen as a huge piece even right after it happened.

[stoo]

Not to mention that we don't actually know if Denver offered Grant 20 mil, as that was "confirmed" only by media sources. Even then, Grant is gonna sign close to 30 mil per year his next contract, compared to 15 if he stayed with us
I am happy for every player who keeps succedding and improving thru his career, and Grant is proving night after night he is more than just a good role player. He might turn as one of the best 2way players in the league.
Calling him selfish is nothing but a mirroring

[Manolito]

Should not be Malone accountable for Grant performance as a Nugget?? Please don't explain me his TS% and so on.

This guy has damaged many players value along these year, and Connelly seems to be always the one yo be blamed.

Nurkic, Beasley, Grant....all underperformed in Denver because Malone preferred to play less skilled players

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[skywalker33]

Should not be Malone accountable for Grant performance as a Nugget?? Please don't explain me his TS% and so on.

This guy has damaged many players value along these year, and Connelly seems to be always the one yo be blamed.

Nurkic, Beasley, Grant....all underperformed in Denver because Malone preferred to play less skilled players

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Shouldn't this be in the "I HATE Malone" thread ??

[DaFan334]

I just had a little bit of an epiphany about Grant. We always looked at him as the ideal PF next to Jokic and that's what he mainly played in the regular season and he never really fit in that well there. In the post-season he started to do well when he got moved into the starting SF spot.

I know that positions are not what they use to be, but Grant was never a good rebounder and strived on offense from the perimeter either shooting or driving. His defense was also best against perimeter players with the occasional weakside block. Thats where losing him right now probably hurts the most.

[FilNugsFan]

Checked on Grant's stats these past few games and he simply doesn't have no room for all those shot attempts here in Denver. But yeah, his presence on the defensive end is what we're missing.

[ForeverRDjazz]

I agree this is a business, he made what he believes was the best move for his career. While he is scoring more on his new team, when I look at his business opportunity, it is clouded by a couple of things. One he has two highly touted young players playing behind him in Sekou and Saddig, how long are they going to be sitting on the bench, that seems to be an open-ended question. Secondly, if it's about a financial decision, it's clear the money was EXACTLY the same, except he'd be 3rd or 4th option, he wanted to be "The Man,". My premise is exactly that ! He wanted to be "The Man". Back to the business part of it now. Leaving a team where he could've been a starter on a contending team for a starter on a lottery team just doesn't make sense unless it's purely ego related IMO. I'll question that all the time, as I am NOT A YOUNGSTER as you surmise, I've been watching basketball since the 70's, I go old-school, don't even try to be condescending with me, makes you look desperately bad.

I think in the long-run, a player (much like his uncle) will get more attention as a player with a ring (which he isn't going to get in DET) , more respect and possibly more endorsements playing on a championship-caliber team like this current Nuggets team.

The more I think about it, the more I think some of us are wrong on this. Horace Grant was the 3rd star on 2 different teams that made the finals, the 1st 3 peat Bulls and the Shaq/Penny Magic. Grant could have easily went and been a star on a bad team, he is very underrated today because while Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Penny were the superstars and Grant was a lower end all star. Also being replaced by Rodman did not help.

The fact is you don't see or hear much about role players or even the 3rd star on most occasions after a few years. Most people had little memory of Kerr until he took over the Warriors. Rodman has always found ways to get attention, but where are the other guys on that team? HOw much do you even hear about Bosh after the Heatles? How often do you hear about Bynum after being the 3rd best guy on the Pau/Kobe Lakers? How many people remember Horace Grant had the 3rd most minutes in 2001 on the Shaq/Kobe 2nd championship team?

How many Nuggets fans that were around in the 90s remember Laphonso Ellis? Do you think people remember him if he was the 3rd or 4th guy on a championship team like his game was suited best for? Mutombo was the DPOY, 2nd team all NBA, 1st team all defense, and starting C on the 76ers team with AI that went to the finals, yet everybody says AI did it alone. My most significant memory of Mutombo will always be as a Nugget though.

I can understand why Grant left, I am still not sure he can be the face of the franchise long term, but it is better to be the star on a bad team than the 4th guy on a great team long term,

Grant is playing great and was a huge loss for your team. You guys are missing top defenders now. Step back from last years team. Not sure who Craig is playing but thought he was also a good defender?

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

I agree this is a business, he made what he believes was the best move for his career. While he is scoring more on his new team, when I look at his business opportunity, it is clouded by a couple of things. One he has two highly touted young players playing behind him in Sekou and Saddig, how long are they going to be sitting on the bench, that seems to be an open-ended question. Secondly, if it's about a financial decision, it's clear the money was EXACTLY the same, except he'd be 3rd or 4th option, he wanted to be "The Man,". My premise is exactly that ! He wanted to be "The Man". Back to the business part of it now. Leaving a team where he could've been a starter on a contending team for a starter on a lottery team just doesn't make sense unless it's purely ego related IMO. I'll question that all the time, as I am NOT A YOUNGSTER as you surmise, I've been watching basketball since the 70's, I go old-school, don't even try to be condescending with me, makes you look desperately bad.

I think in the long-run, a player (much like his uncle) will get more attention as a player with a ring (which he isn't going to get in DET) , more respect and possibly more endorsements playing on a championship-caliber team like this current Nuggets team.

The more I think about it, the more I think some of us are wrong on this. Horace Grant was the 3rd star on 2 different teams that made the finals, the 1st 3 peat Bulls and the Shaq/Penny Magic. Grant could have easily went and been a star on a bad team, he is very underrated today because while Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Penny were the superstars and Grant was a lower end all star. Also being replaced by Rodman did not help.

The fact is you don't see or hear much about role players or even the 3rd star on most occasions after a few years. Most people had little memory of Kerr until he took over the Warriors. Rodman has always found ways to get attention, but where are the other guys on that team? HOw much do you even hear about Bosh after the Heatles? How often do you hear about Bynum after being the 3rd best guy on the Pau/Kobe Lakers? How many people remember Horace Grant had the 3rd most minutes in 2001 on the Shaq/Kobe 2nd championship team?

How many Nuggets fans that were around in the 90s remember Laphonso Ellis? Do you think people remember him if he was the 3rd or 4th guy on a championship team like his game was suited best for? Mutombo was the DPOY, 2nd team all NBA, 1st team all defense, and starting C on the 76ers team with AI that went to the finals, yet everybody says AI did it alone. My most significant memory of Mutombo will always be as a Nugget though.

I can understand why Grant left, I am still not sure he can be the face of the franchise long term, but it is better to be the star on a bad team than the 4th guy on a great team long term,

Grant is playing great and was a huge loss for your team. You guys are missing top defenders now. Step back from last years team. Not sure who Craig is playing but thought he was also a good defender?

Yuppers, Grant is playing great, but we knew he had talent. On the Nuggets, he would not have been featured in the way Detroit uses him. Good for him. Do we miss him? Yes because he was a hard worker who was willing to sacrifice for the team. On the other hand, Green is a rather similar player, so no, we do not actually miss Grant all that much.

Craig was a streaky offensive player and a decent defensive player that was over-valued by too many on the defensive end. Do we miss him? Probably, because he did hustle, but he actually averaged less than 20 mpg and those players are not usually the reason a team wins or loses. He is now playing in Milwaukee, but has only played about 50 minutes on the year.

[ForeverRDjazz]

Spoiler:

The more I think about it, the more I think some of us are wrong on this. Horace Grant was the 3rd star on 2 different teams that made the finals, the 1st 3 peat Bulls and the Shaq/Penny Magic. Grant could have easily went and been a star on a bad team, he is very underrated today because while Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Penny were the superstars and Grant was a lower end all star. Also being replaced by Rodman did not help.

The fact is you don't see or hear much about role players or even the 3rd star on most occasions after a few years. Most people had little memory of Kerr until he took over the Warriors. Rodman has always found ways to get attention, but where are the other guys on that team? HOw much do you even hear about Bosh after the Heatles? How often do you hear about Bynum after being the 3rd best guy on the Pau/Kobe Lakers? How many people remember Horace Grant had the 3rd most minutes in 2001 on the Shaq/Kobe 2nd championship team?

How many Nuggets fans that were around in the 90s remember Laphonso Ellis? Do you think people remember him if he was the 3rd or 4th guy on a championship team like his game was suited best for? Mutombo was the DPOY, 2nd team all NBA, 1st team all defense, and starting C on the 76ers team with AI that went to the finals, yet everybody says AI did it alone. My most significant memory of Mutombo will always be as a Nugget though.

I can understand why Grant left, I am still not sure he can be the face of the franchise long term, but it is better to be the star on a bad team than the 4th guy on a great team long term,

Grant is playing great and was a huge loss for your team. You guys are missing top defenders now. Step back from last years team. Not sure who Craig is playing but thought he was also a good defender?

Yuppers, Grant is playing great, but we knew he had talent. On the Nuggets, he would not have been featured in the way Detroit uses him. Good for him. Do we miss him? Yes because he was a hard worker who was willing to sacrifice for the team. On the other hand, Green is a rather similar player, so no, we do not actually miss Grant all that much.

Craig was a streaky offensive player and a decent defensive player that was over-valued by too many on the defensive end. Do we miss him? Probably, because he did hustle, but he actually averaged less than 20 mpg and those players are not usually the reason a team wins or loses. He is now playing in Milwaukee, but has only played about 50 minutes on the year.

I've been watching Grant way before he played in Denver and wanted him in Utah. Think your coach should've given him little more chance to score and he might'v stay with you guys. Even if it's like Jordan Clarkson coming in as the sixth man but pushing him and ask to shoot more he might'v stay? But its to little to late and you have to move on. Just like the Lakers this year, Losing McGee and Howard I believe was a step back, even tho they got Gasol and Harrell. Still team to beat but i'm thinking they'll beatable this year unlike last year.

[skywalker33]

Grant is playing well but not winning games, usually they call those empty stats. Do hope he makes the ASG but IMO, him leaving was a bad decision especially when the money was the same.

[Manolito]

43 points last night, 23.8ppg with 58% TS.

I know he is playing in the worst team in the league ....but how the hell did Malone not call a single play for this guy in one whole season???

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[NuggetsWY]

43 points last night, 23.8ppg with 58% TS.

I know he is playing in the worst team in the league ....but how the hell did Malone not call a single play for this guy in one whole season???

How? Jokic & Murray --- that was almost every play and it makes a lot of sense. But you make a good point, Grant should have gotten more playing time and truthfully, it sure seemed like the best way to use Grant was to let him hang out in the corner and run the baseline. But that wasn't how Malone used Millsap; so instead of changing the offense, he had Grant play the same as Millsap - more or less. Malone has his system and he doesn't adjust it very rapidly. Look at how long he took him to actually feature Jokic.

[psimanic1]

Malone doesnt have system, Jokic is his system, if it wasnt for Jokic Malone would probably be out of his job already. He has 2 offensive schemes, one is Murray-Jokic 2 man game and other one is giving Jokic a ball and hope for the best. One is working if Murray is on the bench, neither are working if Jokic is on the bench. He has to coach, he has to draw something where everyone can succeed if Jokic is out of the game... He is not doing that. We would be the same without a coach, maybe even better, but we would be much much worse without Jokic..

[THE J0KER]

43 points last night, 23.8ppg with 58% TS.

I know he is playing in the worst team in the league ....but how the hell did Malone not call a single play for this guy in one whole season???

How? Jokic & Murray --- that was almost every play and it makes a lot of sense. But you make a good point, Grant should have gotten more playing time and truthfully, it sure seemed like the best way to use Grant was to let him hang out in the corner and run the baseline. But that wasn't how Malone used Millsap; so instead of changing the offense, he had Grant play the same as Millsap - more or less. Malone has his system and he doesn't adjust it very rapidly. Look at how long he took him to actually feature Jokic.

Malone's big failure about Grant is also that his perfect position is SF, not PF. Instead of being an SF starter, Grant was PF backup during the regular season 80% of the time. Once Barton was out in the bubble, and Porter was removed from starting rotation during the bubble-playoff, he gets a true opportunity to play his natural position, so he played 80% of the time in the playoff on the SF spot. Knowing that Barton is Malone's favorite player and that Porter is SF in Malone's plans, Grant knew that if stay in Denver he will never play in his best position but almost only on PF. The way we used Grant during 2019-20 regular season makes sense only if we wanted to make him cheaper.