Lets talk Zach Lavine

[erasmusmrr]

So either he walks after next year or 5/190

[ZOMG]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

[Shill]

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

My main issue with LaVine has always been the turnovers.

He's too loose with the ball.

His A/T ratio is abysmal, but he had 0 TOs against the Lakers, which is nice.

Lavine is playing two roles at once. Go to scorer and lead/point guard. He also plays the most minutes.

Go to any team and combine the turnover totals of their highest volume shooter and highest volume ball handler.
Expecting Zach, who is not a true PG, to average less than 4 turnovers a game is a pretty high expectation.

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Trae Young. 4.7 TO per game
LeBron. 3.7
Doncic. 4.5

Those are guys who also are responsible for being top scorers and handling the ball every possession. Who else can you think of and what are their turnover averages?

Right, but they average a lot more assists.

LaVine’s A/T ratio had always hovered around 1.0.

His teammates play a part in that, but for his usage, the assists numbers could be better.

[RagingBull316]

As for Zach's turnovers Trae Young, Jokic, Westbrook, Doncic, Booker, Paul George, Harden, Randle all have turned it over more then him this year.

Last year Trae Young, Harden, Westbrook, Doncic, Lebron, Booker, Gianns, Drummond and Simmons all turned it over more then him and Bradley Beal, Morant and D'Angelo Russell were right there with him.

I really don't think the turnovers thing is that big of an issue with Zach, I wouldn't say he is in bad company on that list. If the offense runs through you and you are the focus of the defense you are going to turn the ball over.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

As for Zach's turnovers Trae Young, Jokic, Westbrook, Doncic, Booker, Paul George, Harden, Randle all have turned it over more then him this year.

Last year Trae Young, Harden, Westbrook, Doncic, Lebron, Booker, Gianns, Drummond and Simmons all turned it over more then him and Bradley Beal, Morant and D'Angelo Russell were right there with him.

I really don't think the turnovers thing is that big of an issue with Zach, I wouldn't say he is in bad company on that list. If the offense runs through you and you are the focus of the defense you are going to turn the ball over.

Those guys run an offence and dish out 7 or 8 assists for easy layup or dunk, every single game. Zach would been most effective with playing style of Klay Thompson,Reggie Miller, Mike Miller, Ray Allen as best example. Lavine is not foccal point of offence and pointguard. He is scorer, third guy idealy on strong team or Lou Will on steroids. Lavine makes dumb decisions with ball when he is the guy who handles the ball, especially late in the game.

[Stratmaster]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

Nothing sensitive about pointing out a ridiculously bad post when I see it.

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[Hold That]

I see people are confused on whether we are in a rebuild or not.

Until AK starts handing out extensions we are in a rebuild. He’s not putting his signature next to any of these players long term, and I don’t blame him.

[Stratmaster]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

Look at that. Zach is now shooting 37.1% from 3.

He just hit my projection in 1 game.

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[Stratmaster]

Lavine and Coby combine for 20 assists. If Coby has his normal shooting night the Bulls win.

Bulls are playing right with the best in the west on their turf with 5 rotation players missing.

This is getting interesting.

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[TheSuzerain]

Lavine and Coby combine for 20 assists. If Coby has his normal shooting night the Bulls win.

Bulls are playing right with the best in the west on their turf with 5 rotation players missing.

This is getting interesting.

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We have lost 3 in a row and have the 6th worst record in the league. The minutes we've won so far have more so been the minutes where we've had out veteran bench players on the floor along with Gafford/Valentine.

[Stratmaster]

Lavine and Coby combine for 20 assists. If Coby has his normal shooting night the Bulls win.

Bulls are playing right with the best in the west on their turf with 5 rotation players missing.

This is getting interesting.

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We have lost 3 in a row and have the 6th worst record in the league. The minutes we've won so far have more so been the minutes where we've had out veteran bench players on the floor along with Gafford/Valentine.

So you aren't liking the performances from PWill, Lavine, and to a lesser extent Coby? Lauri wasn't playing better than before when he got the Covid hook?

Ican't agree and even if I did, I am not seeing your point.

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[TheSuzerain]

Lavine and Coby combine for 20 assists. If Coby has his normal shooting night the Bulls win.

Bulls are playing right with the best in the west on their turf with 5 rotation players missing.

This is getting interesting.

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We have lost 3 in a row and have the 6th worst record in the league. The minutes we've won so far have more so been the minutes where we've had out veteran bench players on the floor along with Gafford/Valentine.

So you aren't liking the performances from PWill, Lavine, and to a lesser extent Coby? Lauri wasn't playing better than before when he got the Covid hook?

Ican't agree and even if I did, I am not seeing your point.

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Well the topic of the thread is what to do with Zach Lavine. When he plays well and has monster scoring games, 2 things happen:

1. The amount we can ask for in a trade increases.
2. The amount he's going to cost as a Free Agent in 2 summers increases.

I would say for both of those reasons, the case for trading him continues to strengthen.

[Stratmaster]

We have lost 3 in a row and have the 6th worst record in the league. The minutes we've won so far have more so been the minutes where we've had out veteran bench players on the floor along with Gafford/Valentine.

So you aren't liking the performances from PWill, Lavine, and to a lesser extent Coby? Lauri wasn't playing better than before when he got the Covid hook?

Ican't agree and even if I did, I am not seeing your point.

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Well the topic of the thread is what to do with Zach Lavine. When he plays well and has monster scoring games, 2 things happen:

1. The amount we can ask for in a trade increases.
2. The amount he's going to cost as a Free Agent in 2 summers increases.

I would say for both of those reasons, the case for trading him continues to strengthen.

A max is a max. The only reason for trading your all star elite scorer is if you are a bad team. Actually, that isn't even a reason but some people on here think it is.

The Bulls don't appear to be a bad team any more. Playing even with elite teams in the west coast with half the Bulls rotation out. They have to learn to convert these close games into wins, but there is no reason to blow this team up and start from scratch.

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[The Force.]

Zach has surpassed my expectations so far this season. I figured he hit his ceiling already but under the tutelage of BD it looks like he's poised to make another jump.

With that said, what do people think the Bulls' offer will be? I'm guessing somewhere in the range of 4/130?



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[DASMACKDOWN]

Im keeping Zach. Ive said, unless its for a deal we cant refuse, I would keep him.

Guys like him dont grow on trees. And its just me, the last thing I want is to move on from him and have a Jimmy Butler type envy of why didnt we build around him the proper way.

Zach finally has a great teacher in Billy Donovan and a front office with an actual vision. On top of that Zach is ballin' out this season.

[DroseReturnChi]

As for Zach's turnovers Trae Young, Jokic, Westbrook, Doncic, Booker, Paul George, Harden, Randle all have turned it over more then him this year.

Last year Trae Young, Harden, Westbrook, Doncic, Lebron, Booker, Gianns, Drummond and Simmons all turned it over more then him and Bradley Beal, Morant and D'Angelo Russell were right there with him.

I really don't think the turnovers thing is that big of an issue with Zach, I wouldn't say he is in bad company on that list. If the offense runs through you and you are the focus of the defense you are going to turn the ball over.

Wait are you just blatantly going to ignore the assist total? This is while Zach is a secondary playmaker.
If he was the primary, he would be the number 1 turnover machine and hes already cracked top 5 while 4 seasons in top 20 . And most of those guys are avging 10 assists per game more than double.

[DroseReturnChi]

Zach has surpassed my expectations so far this season. I figured he hit his ceiling already but under the tutelage of BD it looks like he's poised to make another jump.

With that said, what do people think the Bulls' offer will be? I'm guessing somewhere in the range of 4/130?



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It doesnt matter if Zach played above your expectations or not. Not even Ak's.
To a lesser degree, same with Lauri. You gambled he will be a mle, and now your paying the price.
The only question you should be asking everyday is Zach worth 5/190 or not? If no, trade him asap and tank.
I dont mind paying him but you gotta have a fricking plan how your gonna get a top 10 player while Zach is making 35%.

[The Evidence]

Trading Lavine makes no sense.

Zach's game is going to age gracefully and he's just about to enter his prime.

Trading Butler made sense bc we didnt want to overpay a high floor + high mileage player headed into his 30s.

[tsek4]

Instead of trading Lavine we should think if we can move WCJ,Gafford,Kornet and Coby in order to get a true PG and C.

[Ferulci]

Like some have said, Zach has surpassed my expectations so far this season. I think he should be in all-star considerations. That being said, I'm for trading him if we get a good deal.
- I'm for trying to get another Top 4 pick rather than being in the treadmill.
- 2021 free agent market is dire. If Kawhi extends, Jrue and Oladipo are the top guys. It means that lots of team, rather than sitting idle in the offseason, would rather try to improve now. I think teams like Miami, Denver or Dallas would be willing to give a lot to get him.
- I still don't think he can be a Top 2 player for a contending team.
But that's not against Zach, he's been awesome this year.