Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Dark Faze]

Kelley obure, Jordan poole , james wiseman and the mini picks for this year and a pack of two or three future pics. Would be the option from GS and honestly I would probably take that trade. The money works and you can move kelly later at the dead line.

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We can't trade with GS until the off-season because the Mini pick is top 3 protected. Mini will have a great chance at a top 3 pick. So we'll have for the actual lottery to play out in order for these assets to be locked in. The Oubre contract expires by that point so he couldn't be included without a sign and trade.

If we're somewhat lucky with how the lottery works out: GS pick (11 or so), Mini pick (4), Wiseman.

Then future GS firsts:

2022: they can't trade it, Stepien rule

2023: free to trade

2024: traded already

I guess with this draft 4, 11, Wiseman may not be terrible, but there's a chance both Minny and GS could play better than anticipated and those picks could become 8, 14.

[gambitx777]

GS can trade that pick any time they want. The protection does not prevent them from reading the pick. Now they can't trade their own pick because it's owed to someone with protections in place.

Kelley obure, Jordan poole , james wiseman and the mini picks for this year and a pack of two or three future pics. Would be the option from GS and honestly I would probably take that trade. The money works and you can move kelly later at the dead line.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

We can't trade with GS until the off-season because the Mini pick is top 3 protected. Mini will have a great chance at a top 3 pick. So we'll have for the actual lottery to play out in order for these assets to be locked in. The Oubre contract expires by that point so he couldn't be included without a sign and trade.

If we're somewhat lucky with how the lottery works out: GS pick (11 or so), Mini pick (4), Wiseman.

Then future GS firsts:

2022: they can't trade it, Stepien rule

2023: free to trade

2024: traded already

I guess with this draft 4, 11, Wiseman may not be terrible, but there's a chance both Minny and GS could play better than anticipated and those picks could become 8, 14.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

Kelley obure, Jordan poole , james wiseman and the mini picks for this year and a pack of two or three future pics. Would be the option from GS and honestly I would probably take that trade. The money works and you can move kelly later at the dead line.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

We can't trade with GS until the off-season because the Mini pick is top 3 protected. Mini will have a great chance at a top 3 pick. So we'll have for the actual lottery to play out in order for these assets to be locked in. The Oubre contract expires by that point so he couldn't be included without a sign and trade.

If we're somewhat lucky with how the lottery works out: GS pick (11 or so), Mini pick (4), Wiseman.

Then future GS firsts:

2022: they can't trade it, Stepien rule

2023: free to trade

2024: traded already

I guess with this draft 4, 11, Wiseman may not be terrible, but there's a chance both Minny and GS could play better than anticipated and those picks could become 8, 14.

Yeah, we can still do the trade for the Minny pick. If it lands in the top 3, we just end up with the 2022 Minny pick.

If we think Beal will depart in 2022 and therefore we must trade him, I'm leery of waiting all the way until this summer. I think he will have more value at the Trade Deadline because the acquiring team will know that they'll have him for two playoff runs at a minimum.

The best of all options would be to convince Beal to stay, but continue to suck this year and land a top 3 lotto pick ourselves. Then we could have Beal AND Cunningham!

[Dark Faze]

Well specifically with GS, there's nothing I can imagine happening that would leave them not wanting to move their picks for Brad, even if they land at #4 (Minny pick) and in the lottery (their own pick) respectively.

Other teams, particularly ones for which its dicey whether he'd resign, yea I agree a deal at the deadline would be good, but I don't think anyone trades for him that doesn't have a strong chance at an extension.

[The Consiglieri]

Boston doesn't have anything close to a centerpiece for Beal. If they don't include Jaylen Brown, I'm hanging up the phone.

I'm moderately interested in MPJ plus picks, but his injury history concerns me.

The Miami package is probably the baseline for a Beal trade. I think we could do better, but I wouldn't be apoplectic if that's what we got.

The best package would be from Golden state. Wiseman plus two 2021 1sts, plus a bunch of unlikely future pick swaps.

New Orleans has a bunch of future picks to trade, but they're all from Milwaukee or Los Angeles, so they may all be picks higher than #25, barely better than 2nd round picks.

I'd still take a straight up Ben Simmons swap.

Do the Simmons trade, and then dump Westbrook on the Knicks. Go with a backcourt of Brown and Simmons. We'd have the biggest team in the NBA.

Don't have a huge problem with the former, don't see the Knicks doing the latter. I get the sense they're run by some people ready to do it the right way and a trade for Westbrook w/that monstrous contract is the wrong way. Not sure who we can move Westbrook too, but it's not the Knicks.

[The Consiglieri]

That atlanta package is awful.

The best player i've seen as options are MPJ and Jaylen Brown. I don't think you can take back anyone less than these calibre of players.

Like many, I imagine, I was screaming for us to trade up for MPJ a few years ago when the dunderheaded GM's around the league let him fall 10 or so slots lower than he had any right to. At the same time it does concern me that the core piece of a Beal trade could be a guy whose fall was predicated on medicals w/regards to his back. We'd definitely need to have clean medicals going forward, and a thumbs up from docs to do feel that way, and how can you do that with a players back? Not sure. Regardless I agree w/the general sentiment that if we trade Beal (and I've been a supporter of the idea for 18 months), we need to get back a legit piece and picks, or a mega legit young piece. You don't do the quarter, nickel and a dime for a dollar type trades if you want any chance to avoid joining the extraordinary long list of trades of elite players that ended being total disasters for the team trading said asset (I think Bill Simmons has gone quite out of his way to repeatedly state that these trades have historically been consistently epically one sided over and over again).

How do you avoid that result? I tend to think there's only one way and that's to get the elite player back from the jump, the guys you suggest or Ben Simmons etc. But there's also the question about what we are trying to accomplish w/the trade, get better faster, or try to build something long term that may take longer etc and where the picks project to be if you go for a pick package. I'd definitely be going after the NBA version of Warren Sharpe types if I'm trading for picks to target the highest likely picks in '21 and '23 and beyond.

As someone whose off on the West Coast, what do you hear out in DC? Is the team headed towards an inane, stupid, win now trade that's going to screw us, or are they going to be sane, break it up, and rebuild around the kids acquired through the last few drafts? What's the sense you get?

[NatP4]

Westbrook’s value will increase once Brooks is gone

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Boston doesn't have anything close to a centerpiece for Beal. If they don't include Jaylen Brown, I'm hanging up the phone.

I'm moderately interested in MPJ plus picks, but his injury history concerns me.

The Miami package is probably the baseline for a Beal trade. I think we could do better, but I wouldn't be apoplectic if that's what we got.

The best package would be from Golden state. Wiseman plus two 2021 1sts, plus a bunch of unlikely future pick swaps.

New Orleans has a bunch of future picks to trade, but they're all from Milwaukee or Los Angeles, so they may all be picks higher than #25, barely better than 2nd round picks.

I'd still take a straight up Ben Simmons swap.

Do the Simmons trade, and then dump Westbrook on the Knicks. Go with a backcourt of Brown and Simmons. We'd have the biggest team in the NBA.

Don't have a huge problem with the former, don't see the Knicks doing the latter. I get the sense they're run by some people ready to do it the right way and a trade for Westbrook w/that monstrous contract is the wrong way. Not sure who we can move Westbrook too, but it's not the Knicks.

After watching that game last night, I don't think I'd be opposed to the Herro + Precious deal. I like the way both of those guys play.

Also intrigued by the Simmons idea. Have concerns about rumblings about his work ethic. His size and defense on the perimeter instantly transforms this team. Imagining a Simmons-Mathews backcourt...

[nate33]

As someone whose off on the West Coast, what do you hear out in DC? Is the team headed towards an inane, stupid, win now trade that's going to screw us, or are they going to be sane, break it up, and rebuild around the kids acquired through the last few drafts? What's the sense you get?

I haven't heard anything specific. But throughout his entire tenure as GM, Sheppard has avoided trading future assets for win now assets. He seems to be of the mindset that you use picks and trades acquire and develop young guys, and you use free agency to sprinkle the roster with vets. You don't trade youth for vets.

The only trade he has made that got us older was the Wall for Westbrook deal, and that was presumably driven by off-court factors and Ted Leonsis.

I don't expect a panic trade like when we traded Oubre for Ariza. They may look to trade someone like Robinson or Wagner since they already declined their player option and clearly don't have much intention of keeping them for the long term, but they won't trade Hachimura, Avdija, Bryant, Brown or a future 1st (unless it's for a similarly young player).

Honestly, I think the only logical trade to make right now would be a Beal trade. And I don't think they'll do that before first firing Brooks and trying out a different coach. Therefore, I think the first move that they make will be to fire Brooks.

[payitforward]

As someone whose off on the West Coast, what do you hear out in DC? Is the team headed towards an inane, stupid, win now trade that's going to screw us, or are they going to be sane, break it up, and rebuild around the kids acquired through the last few drafts? What's the sense you get?

I haven't heard anything specific. But throughout his entire tenure as GM, Sheppard has avoided trading future assets for win now assets. He seems to be of the mindset that you use picks and trades acquire and develop young guys, and you use free agency to sprinkle the roster with vets. You don't trade youth for vets.

The only trade he has made that got us older was the Wall for Westbrook deal, and that was presumably driven by off-court factors and Ted Leonsis.

I don't expect a panic trade like when we traded Oubre for Ariza. They may look to trade someone like Robinson or Wagner since they already declined their player option and clearly don't have much intention of keeping them for the long term, but they won't trade Hachimura, Avdija, Bryant, Brown or a future 1st (unless it's for a similarly young player).

Honestly, I think the only logical trade to make right now would be a Beal trade. And I don't think they'll do that before first firing Brooks and trying out a different coach. Therefore, I think the first move that they make will be to fire Brooks.

As I've just written in a new thread, I agree that this is Tommy Sheppard's overall strategy.

But... Tommy works for Ted -- & there's evidence that Ted sees things differently:

1. They failed to take a R1 pick for Davis Bertans last year. Now, if I'm Tommy, that is such an enormous win for my work... I can't imagine turning it down. I got a guy for nothing. A few months later I traded him for a R1 pick! For that reason, I am inclined to conclude that the decision was Ted's.

2. We concentrated on bandaid-level veteran FAs this off-season.

IOW, as with the Wall trade, I give Ted responsibility for these decisions, & I feel significant trepidation that he'll force Tommy to trade 1 or more of the young guys (not Deni or Rui...) for veteran "help."

I hope you are right & I am wrong!

[NatP4]

Bryant out for the season. Time to tear it all down.

[nate33]

1. They failed to take a R1 pick for Davis Bertans last year. Now, if I'm Tommy, that is such an enormous win for my work... I can't imagine turning it down. I got a guy for nothing. A few months later I traded him for a R1 pick! For that reason, I am inclined to conclude that the decision was Ted's.

2. We concentrated on bandaid-level veteran FAs this off-season.

IOW, as with the Wall trade, I give Ted responsibility for these decisions, & I feel significant trepidation that he'll force Tommy to trade 1 or more of the young guys (not Deni or Rui...) for veteran "help."

I hope you are right & I am wrong!

1. Refraining from trading a veteran for future assets isn't the same thing as trading future assets for veterans. Yes, I agree that Sheppard missed an opportunity to build a better future by declining to trade Bertans, but that's not an indication that he is prioritizing now over the future. It is merely an indication that he cares about now to some degree. He isn't oriented solely on the future.

2. I thought the band-aid stop gap veteran additions were actually further indication of his future orientation. He wanted to make sure there was cap room available to retain our own young free agents and or be ready to acquire a bigger star down the line. The Ernie Grunfeld move would be to pay Tristian Thompson or Serge Ibaka $15M a year for 4 years and then watch Troy Brown and Isaac Bonga walk in free agency because we wouldn't pay the luxtax to retain them.

[nate33]

Bryant out for the season. Time to tear it all down.

[The Consiglieri]

Sure he is scoring efficiently but taking 25 shots per game does mean fewer touches from the young guys. A lot of his shots come without anyone else touching the ball.

Westbrook has been garbage but that is a separate issue. I have to wonder if he has a chronic problem with his knee. No lift.

I dont mean no harm but f*** the young guys. What Beal is doing is elite. He is the best two guard on the earth outside of James Harden and he is early in his prime. Beal taking 25 shots is not a problem when he's leading the league in scoring with a TS% over .600. That's HOF-level. But we want him to sacrifice shots to develop future role players?

I am not asking him to do anything. We are still losing even with him going off.

If the goal is to win, and we can't do it even with Beal lighting it up, then how do we become a winner?

Fire Brooks sure but is changing coaches really enough to become a winner?

+1000

Having Beal heave a billion shots a night while we lose 80% of our games is utterly pointless beyond potentially ramping up his trade value. Unless we're doing this to up the trade market, it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Trade Beal, period, as I've been saying for 18 or 19 months.

[Frichuela]

Bryant out for the season. Time to tear it all down.

Indeed. Our chances of recovering and competing this year have deteriorated further. Westbrook’s quad is also allegedly injured. Time to tank for a great draft.

[Frichuela]

I dont mean no harm but f*** the young guys. What Beal is doing is elite. He is the best two guard on the earth outside of James Harden and he is early in his prime. Beal taking 25 shots is not a problem when he's leading the league in scoring with a TS% over .600. That's HOF-level. But we want him to sacrifice shots to develop future role players?

I am not asking him to do anything. We are still losing even with him going off.

If the goal is to win, and we can't do it even with Beal lighting it up, then how do we become a winner?

Fire Brooks sure but is changing coaches really enough to become a winner?

+1000

Having Beal heave a billion shots a night while we lose 80% of our games is utterly pointless beyond potentially ramping up his trade value. Unless we're doing this to up the trade market, it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Trade Beal, period, as I've been saying for 18 or 19 months.

Agreed. This should be the rational decision to make. However, Ted is gonna Ted

[The Consiglieri]

Bryant out for the season. Time to tear it all down.

Two thoughts here:

#1 Priority: Bryant get better, rehab, and recover 100% I hope.

#2 I hope this means we're less likely to make a stupid trade. I hope. One could make a stupid trade to try to address the hole in the roster/lineup, or one could be sane, realize, we're 2-8 in a season w/only 62 games left, not 72 and pack it in. I wonder how they evaluate the rest of the season?

[Frichuela]

After watching Tyler Herro’s poise and performance last night, I’m even keener on a Beal trade with Miami. Herro has the potential to be as good as Beal. He’s got 3 1/2 years left on a great rookie deal (was picked 13th).

Make the trade, get Achiuwa, a far in the future 1st round pick and run!

Obviously, get rid of Brooks too for a good coach who can install decent X and Os and develop a young core of Herro/Avdija/Rui/Achiuwa together with Bryant/Matthews/Troy/Bonga. We would probably have to keep Westbrook and Bertans until they can be traded for some positive value.

[J-Ves]

Bryant out for the season. Time to tear it all down.

That’s just sad. Bryant has become by favorite player on the team. It’s a joy to watch him on offense.

[NatP4]

I’m not sure you trade a 27 year old superstar that has been nothing but loyal to the franchise, and for the most part, always played hard and played the right way and was a great leader on and off the court.