1-10-21 OKC Thunder a Brooklyn Nets 5PM CST

[Old Man Game]

Did anybody got stuck comparing the difference in quickness between Durant and Poku? I couldn't ignore it. Durant has Poku's length, Roby's quickness and first step, and Shai's skills with the ball. Durant is bizarre.

I did notice that now that you mention it. He stands eye to eye but Durant just blows right by people whereas most guys that size are moving in sand comparatively.

Right after an Achilles tear.

I feel cautiously optimistic we may have actually found something with Roby. He's not a perfect player but he does a lot of the little things, and not a complete stiff with the ball either.

I like him too, but he seems lost in this offensive scheme, like many other players. He's in a similar level of chemistry with the team and schemes than Poku, which is worrisome for a third season guy. In this offense either you can drive to the basketball, or you won't see many shots.

I miss CP3 badly.

Second year I believe. Also he was injured much of last season and switched teams mid-season he played less than 15 minutes all of last year over the course of 3 games. I think it's not completely unreasonable to presume he's very near a rookie in terms of experience level.

[spearsy23]

Lol baze has played 2 bad games.

Too bad cupcake has never played with a pg as good as shai.

More like five bad games. He’s shooting 28% from three this year. He’ll come around but I think he’s three point struggles are probably real.

Meant in a row. But even so, I'dsay he's had 4 bad, 4 good, and one about as expected. Dude's 20. He's showing the flashes of what you hope you'll get, he's not going to give it to you every night at this point in his career. He looks like he has a Thad young floor.

[spearsy23]

I'm always wary of guys who 'look like players' on bad teams. It's usually a reminder that everyone in the nba (except poku) are pretty good at basketball.

[Old Man Game]

Ya know, this is the hottest of hot takes (and I'm sort of ashamed of myself for making it) but here goes ...

That game sort of reminded me how Durant isn't much of a leader. He got his, his team mostly got dominated. Didn't feel like there was ever a moment where he was emotionally picking his guys up or directing traffic or anything. Reminded me of what it was like watching him with some of our more hapless rosters in these early to mid-season games that can sort of drag. Especially against a non-contending team.

[ThunderBolt]

Ya know, this is the hottest of hot takes (and I'm sort of ashamed of myself for making it) but here goes ...

That game sort of reminded me how Durant isn't much of a leader. He got his, his team mostly got dominated. Didn't feel like there was ever a moment where he was emotionally picking his guys up or directing traffic or anything. Reminded me of what it was like watching him with some of our more hapless rosters in these early to mid-season games that can sort of drag. Especially against a non-contending team.

It’s not that crazy. He’s an introvert whose best friend thinks the earth is flat.

[Old Man Game]

Ya know, this is the hottest of hot takes (and I'm sort of ashamed of myself for making it) but here goes ...

That game sort of reminded me how Durant isn't much of a leader. He got his, his team mostly got dominated. Didn't feel like there was ever a moment where he was emotionally picking his guys up or directing traffic or anything. Reminded me of what it was like watching him with some of our more hapless rosters in these early to mid-season games that can sort of drag. Especially against a non-contending team.

It’s not that crazy. He’s an introvert whose best friend thinks the earth is flat.

Glad it wasn't just me. That reminded me of some of those random losses where Durant would have like 28 and 9 and we'd lose and Russ would get all the blame because he missed 10 shots or something.

[bbms]

Well, that game only reminded me how liberally people throw KD comparisons for prospects. His physical toolbox is way beyond 7' and 9'3" with fluidity. NBA needs a real Combine.

I miss those quiet 30+ points on 20 FGAs, night in, night out. Players coming out of the Draft all seem too performative and too reliant on ball handling on the pick and roll to be effective. Truth is that there is only one ball. For example, the biggest problem I see with our offense is that the players off the ball are stagnant and don't create good looks for themselves via slashing, or for the others via setting off picks. A team with Durant doesn't have this problem just for the sake of his presence.

I mean, we're stockpiling draft picks to get something like that.

And how Brooklyn Nets aren't all that impressive outside of their two superstars. Their defense is flat out soft.

[spearsy23]

What's a leader? Not going to drag a guy for not being demonstrative, he has lead teams to championship contention for years. Lebron's teams routinely punt the regular season away and I wouldn't question his ability to lead, steph isn't real demonstrative either and he's a good leader.

[ThunderBolt]

What's a leader? Not going to drag a guy for not being demonstrative, he has lead teams to championship contention for years. Lebron's teams routinely punt the regular season away and I wouldn't question his ability to lead, steph isn't real demonstrative either and he's a good leader.

Steph is pretty demonstrative when he’s in the zone but I think most people know that Draymond is the true emotional leader of the team. Not being a vocal leader doesn’t mean KD isn’t an all time great player. It’s just not his greatest strength.

[bbms]

What's a leader? Not going to drag a guy for not being demonstrative, he has lead teams to championship contention for years. Lebron's teams routinely punt the regular season away and I wouldn't question his ability to lead, steph isn't real demonstrative either and he's a good leader.

It's short memory and bad blood.

[spearsy23]

What's a leader? Not going to drag a guy for not being demonstrative, he has lead teams to championship contention for years. Lebron's teams routinely punt the regular season away and I wouldn't question his ability to lead, steph isn't real demonstrative either and he's a good leader.

Steph is pretty demonstrative when he’s in the zone but I think most people know that Draymond is the true emotional leader of the team. Not being a vocal leader doesn’t mean KD isn’t an all time great player. It’s just not his greatest strength.

If we're talking about yelling after big plays and shimmying on his way down the court, Durant does that too, but I meant in regards to directing his teammates. I just think it's pointless to disregard him as a bad leader because we don't see him yelling at teammates or because his team doesn't give 100% in every game. His teammates have always liked him, he's been the best player on multiple championship contenders, and he had an entire organization at his beck and call for 4-5 years that was well run. Most NBA players/teams aren't Russ, they aren't going to try and destroy every night.

[ThunderBolt]

What's a leader? Not going to drag a guy for not being demonstrative, he has lead teams to championship contention for years. Lebron's teams routinely punt the regular season away and I wouldn't question his ability to lead, steph isn't real demonstrative either and he's a good leader.

Steph is pretty demonstrative when he’s in the zone but I think most people know that Draymond is the true emotional leader of the team. Not being a vocal leader doesn’t mean KD isn’t an all time great player. It’s just not his greatest strength.

If we're talking about yelling after big plays and shimmying on his way down the court, Durant does that too, but I meant in regards to directing his teammates. I just think it's pointless to disregard him as a bad leader because we don't see him yelling at teammates or because his team doesn't give 100% in every game. His teammates have always liked him, he's been the best player on multiple championship contenders, and he had an entire organization at his beck and call for 4-5 years that was well run. Most NBA players/teams aren't Russ, they aren't going to try and destroy every night.

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD or Kyrie.

[Dadouv47]

Steph is pretty demonstrative when he’s in the zone but I think most people know that Draymond is the true emotional leader of the team. Not being a vocal leader doesn’t mean KD isn’t an all time great player. It’s just not his greatest strength.

If we're talking about yelling after big plays and shimmying on his way down the court, Durant does that too, but I meant in regards to directing his teammates. I just think it's pointless to disregard him as a bad leader because we don't see him yelling at teammates or because his team doesn't give 100% in every game. His teammates have always liked him, he's been the best player on multiple championship contenders, and he had an entire organization at his beck and call for 4-5 years that was well run. Most NBA players/teams aren't Russ, they aren't going to try and destroy every night.

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD.

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

[ThunderBolt]

If we're talking about yelling after big plays and shimmying on his way down the court, Durant does that too, but I meant in regards to directing his teammates. I just think it's pointless to disregard him as a bad leader because we don't see him yelling at teammates or because his team doesn't give 100% in every game. His teammates have always liked him, he's been the best player on multiple championship contenders, and he had an entire organization at his beck and call for 4-5 years that was well run. Most NBA players/teams aren't Russ, they aren't going to try and destroy every night.

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD.

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

When we are discussing players of this level it's all nitpicking. They are the best in the game but are all flawed. Jordan's style of leadership had its flaws too.

[spearsy23]

If we're talking about yelling after big plays and shimmying on his way down the court, Durant does that too, but I meant in regards to directing his teammates. I just think it's pointless to disregard him as a bad leader because we don't see him yelling at teammates or because his team doesn't give 100% in every game. His teammates have always liked him, he's been the best player on multiple championship contenders, and he had an entire organization at his beck and call for 4-5 years that was well run. Most NBA players/teams aren't Russ, they aren't going to try and destroy every night.

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD.

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

Would you guys consider Tim Duncan a good leader?

[Dadouv47]

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD.

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

Would you guys consider Tim Duncan a good leader?

Yeah I thought about Duncan writing my post. It's really difficult to say when you had Pop and 3 vets in Duncan/Ginobili/Parker.

Maybe he was a good leader off the court but you don't need him to yell at players during games when u have Pop already doing it and Ginobili giving advises to the young guys.

Btw don't think Durant is a not a leader because he isn't yelling at his teammates. It's more about his lack of communication, passive behavior not trying to solve/address issues during games.

[ThunderBolt]

Yelling at teammates doesn't make someone a leader anymore than being really talented or well liked. KD is closer to Kawhi than Lebron in that regard. It doesn't mean teams can't win with him but it's clearly not his greatest strength as player. It's just like saying Lebron's leadership can off putting for some players. You can win with both guys despite their faults because their strengths are so great. Even if KD isn't the vocal on the court leader for Brooklyn, they need so find that person because it isn't KD.

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

Would you guys consider Tim Duncan a good leader?

Tim Duncan wasn't a vocal leader. Didn't mean he wasn't a great player. I'm really not sure what we are discussing at this point.

[spearsy23]

Pretty much. KD was never a leader and it's fine. To be fair only Lebron is a great leader amongst the best players in the world, which is part of the reason why I would always pick Lebron over KD in any year. Harden isn't a leader, Curry was not the leader of the GSW dinasty, Kawhi wasn't a leader in SAS/Toronto etc. Maybe the only other good leader amongst the superstars is CP3 but he also has his issues in the playoffs (and injuries that didn't help)

Would you guys consider Tim Duncan a good leader?

Tim Duncan wasn't a vocal leader. Didn't mean he wasn't a great player. I'm really not sure what we are discussing at this point.

The discussion is rather you can be a great leader without being a vocal leader. Imo the answer is yes, and Duncan is commonly sited as a great leader. Durant was compared to Duncan until he left for golden state. I think it's sour grapes to retroactively call him a bad leader when his entire time here here was the guy setting the tone for an organization that was constantly on the cusp of a championship, including an mvp season when russ went down.

[ThunderBolt]

Would you guys consider Tim Duncan a good leader?

Tim Duncan wasn't a vocal leader. Didn't mean he wasn't a great player. I'm really not sure what we are discussing at this point.

The discussion is rather you can be a great leader without being a vocal leader. Imo the answer is yes, and Duncan is commonly sited as a great leader. Durant was compared to Duncan until he left for golden state. I think it's sour grapes to retroactively call him a bad leader when his entire time here here was the guy setting the tone for an organization that was constantly on the cusp of a championship, including an mvp season when russ went down.

I’m not calling him a bad leader, but saying it’s not his personality to be a vocal leader. Most championship teams need a vocal leader even if that player isn’t the best actual player. Saying that about KD isn’t any more of sour grapes than saying Russ lets his emotions get the best of him. It’s just who they are as players. You take the good with the bad. Even the best of the best are flawed.

Can you lead in other ways besides being vocal? I would say it's not dissimilar from trying to be a great offensive player that doesn't shoot well. It's going to be much more difficult.

[spearsy23]

Tim Duncan wasn't a vocal leader. Didn't mean he wasn't a great player. I'm really not sure what we are discussing at this point.

The discussion is rather you can be a great leader without being a vocal leader. Imo the answer is yes, and Duncan is commonly sited as a great leader. Durant was compared to Duncan until he left for golden state. I think it's sour grapes to retroactively call him a bad leader when his entire time here here was the guy setting the tone for an organization that was constantly on the cusp of a championship, including an mvp season when russ went down.

I’m not calling him a bad leader, but saying it’s not his personality to be a vocal leader. Most championship teams need a vocal leader even if that player isn’t the best actual player. Saying that about KD isn’t any more of sour grapes than saying Russ lets his emotions get the best of him. It’s just who they are as players. You take the good with the bad. Even the best of the best are flawed.

Can you lead in other ways besides being vocal? I would say it's not dissimilar from trying to be a great offensive player that doesn't shoot well. It's going to be much more difficult.

The original discussion started with him being called "not much of a" leader. I don't think there's any basis for that.