Political Roundtable Part XXIX

[bsilver]

I don't get those that advocate impeachment with the idea that it will have any chance of removing Trump from office. That is not going to happen. 0% chance. Having a trial in the senate while Trump is still president. 0% chance.

At least what James Clyburn is proposing makes some sense. Impeach now, but wait 100 days before sending articles of impeachment to the senate. Biden's first days in office should not be overshadowed by a trial which dominates the news, and where the results are an obvious acquital. (49-50 democrats and 4-5 republicans voting to convict). A major defeat is not the way to start the presidency.

Waiting 100 days leaves open the options. An obvious choice being, don't send the impeachments articles to the senate. Since the result of a trial is already known, the only reason for a trial is political gain for the Ds. But, we've already seen how that played out in the first impeachment, so it's hard to see a reason to proceed.

It's possible that Trump will continue to implode and democrats will believe there's a chance republicans will finally "come to their senses". But we've been there before. It doesn't seem to matter what he does. His followers will not abandon, and Foxnews, etc, also will not abandon Trump. They knows what version of the news fills their coffers.

[dckingsfan]

I disagree. Treason and promoting insurrection should be met with immediacy. This is not the time for tactics. Impeach now.

[Ruzious]

He's got 4 years to be president, so who cares if there aren't trumpets blaring on his first day. And having an investigation and impeachment shouldn't hinder other things that he and his staff need to work on.

[payitforward]

Treason is a crime that a person can be prosecuted for without impeachment being required. Once out of office, he can be arrested for treason.

No, he cannot pardon himself -- in fact, I hope he tries to, as it would be good for the question to be ruled on by the Supreme Court.

Edit: anyway there's an upside to him being President on 1/17, when these brain-dead ninnies come back. It'd be interesting to watch how he handles it.

Will he call out Federal forces to put down "Insurrection: the Sequel" -- ? If so, great; he damages his standing with the doofus-mob. If not... well, now we are really talking arrest for treason!

I wonder how Vegas will list the odds? Since he himself is his only real concern, I bet on his calling out forces & trying to legitimize himself -- at least a little bit.

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

@dobro, dem establishment doing our girl dirty

REP. KATIE PORTER, the California Democrat whose interrogations of financial executives and Trump administration officials gained wide notice, is unlikely to remain on the House Financial Services Committee, after Democratic leaders have been unresponsive to her requests for a waiver that would allow her to continue serving on the panel despite having two other committee assignments. Porter has been added to the Natural Resources Committee for the new Congress, and remains on the Oversight Committee. But she has pushed to remain on Financial Services, given her background in bankruptcy law that has made her an ally of progressives including her mentor, Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

Porter sent a letter requesting a waiver to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Nov. 30. After not getting an affirmative response, she sent another on Wednesday, noting that five waivers remain available for members to join the committee while retaining their other committee assignments. A Pelosi spokesman didn’t respond to requests for comment.

That sounds like all the reasons why so many progressives including myself at times, can't abide
the Dem party _in total_. It's freaking pathetic. While doing exactly what she should be doing,
protecting the interests of ordinary americans, she gets undercut because she upset some
important apple carts. Sad. Hope it gets more favorably resolved than what it sounds like.

[Ruzious]

Treason is a crime that a person can be prosecuted for without impeachment being required. Once out of office, he can be arrested for treason.

No, he cannot pardon himself -- in fact, I hope he tries to, as it would be good for the question to be ruled on by the Supreme Court.

Edit: anyway there's an upside to him being President on 1/17, when these brain-dead ninnies come back. It'd be interesting to watch how he handles it.

Will he call out Federal forces to put down "Insurrection: the Sequel" -- ? If so, great; he damages his standing with the doofus-mob. If not... well, now we are really talking arrest for treason!

I wonder how Vegas will list the odds? Since he himself is his only real concern, I bet on his calling out forces & trying to legitimize himself -- at least a little bit.

From what I've read, the legal definition of treason is much narrower than the definition most of us use. Legally speaking, there are two ways to commit treason: levying war against the government or providing aid or comfort to the enemy. Was Trump levying war against the government? Probably not - though perhaps it could be argued that his actions come up to that level because he encouraged violent disregard of federal law resulting in danger to representatives of the federal government. And he wasn't providing aid or comfort to an enemy of the US. I'm no lawyer, but I think it would be difficult to convict him of treason. Edit: I do think he committed treason using the definition that the average person would use.

[montestewart]

I don't get those that advocate impeachment with the idea that it will have any chance of removing Trump from office. That is not going to happen. 0% chance. Having a trial in the senate while Trump is still president. 0% chance.

At least what James Clyburn is proposing makes some sense. Impeach now, but wait 100 days before sending articles of impeachment to the senate. Biden's first days in office should not be overshadowed by a trial which dominates the news, and where the results are an obvious acquital. (49-50 democrats and 4-5 republicans voting to convict). A major defeat is not the way to start the presidency.

Waiting 100 days leaves open the options. An obvious choice being, don't send the impeachments articles to the senate. Since the result of a trial is already known, the only reason for a trial is political gain for the Ds. But, we've already seen how that played out in the first impeachment, so it's hard to see a reason to proceed.

It's possible that Trump will continue to implode and democrats will believe there's a chance republicans will finally "come to their senses". But we've been there before. It doesn't seem to matter what he does. His followers will not abandon, and Foxnews, etc, also will not abandon Trump. They knows what version of the news fills their coffers.

All other arguments aside, the idea that initiating the process puts the damper on his pardon power is enough to sell me on impeachment, whether it even goes to trial in the Senate. Trump and supporters gleefully thumb their noses at the law whenever they cannot sufficiently contort it. (How often do you hear a conservative concede that the Constitution sadly but surely dictates something that they disagree with?)

I wouldn't be surprised by astonishingly broad blanket pardons issued to everyone connected with everything: the events of January 6, Trumps attempts to steal the election, Trump's bad faith attempts to overturn the the outcome of the election in the courts, in the legislatures, and through executive order. This is a long, long trail of treachery, with far too many people involved to cover it up, but if he can start pardoning everyone, that goes a long way toward keeping things secret.

Impeachment takes that power away, for obvious reasons. He's probably preparing those pardons as I write.

"Get me those pardons, minion!"
"I'm sorry, Mr. President, I'm the housekeeper."
"You're just like Pence! Traitors, all of you!"

[Ruzious]

I hadn't even thought about the possibility of him pardoning the Capitol building terrorists. That would truly be a disaster.

[Zonkerbl]

Talking to one of my neighbors here in Anacostia - absolutely NOT planning on getting the vaccine. She doesn't trust it.

[montestewart]

Talking to one of my neighbors here in Anacostia - absolutely NOT planning on getting the vaccine. She doesn't trust it.

I wonder how much "Rushed into production and distribution in time for a Trump victory" contributes to that? My wife, who will be eligible for vaccination before I will (assuming distributing authorities actually conform to stated criteria--no idea if they do), asked if she should take it when eligible, and when I asked if she knew which one, she didn't seem aware that there could possibly be differences.

As with past diseases/viruses, the response to COVID may produce multiple vaccines beyond the first two, and some may be more effective and/or have fewer or lesser side effects. There's a difference between being antivax and wanting to have more information, but under Trump, everything has been reduced to disinformation, ignorance, and hysteria.

It is interesting, however, how many who blindly trust Trump also refuse to get the vaccine for which Trump wimpily (is that a word?) whines that he deserves all credit. He could have told his supporters, "COVID is deadly. It's no hoax. Save yourselves, save your family, get the vaccine." Instead, he used his political capital to try to overthrow the government.

"Steal me liberty, or give me COVID!"

[bsilver]

With all due respect to James Clyburn, he’s not floating the “wait a 100 days” for the senate trial idea because he came up with it, and thinks it’s a good idea. He’s proposing the idea at the behest of Joe Biden. Biden doesn’t want to take the heat from the base if there’s a big backlash. Clyburn is close to Biden and reflects Biden’s preferences. Pelosi is cautious and will not take any action not approved by Biden. She knows Biden is now the head of the D party.

[Wizardspride]

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[bsilver]

I hadn't even thought about the possibility of him pardoning the Capitol building terrorists. That would truly be a disaster.

I think Trump would love to pardon the terrorists. He totally approves of their actions. It would have been an interesting idea to wait until Trump is out of office before filing charges. Then maybe he couldn’t do the pardons.

Otoh, maybe his legal advisors are against the pardons. They could be used against him in a future insurrection trial.

[Zonkerbl]

I hope Doug Jensen is arrested and goes to jail for a long, long time

https://kwwl.com/2021/01/07/iowa-man-person-of-interest-among-those-photographed-storming-us-capitol/

Wow, the guy that shot that video did an amazing job. Jensen was clearly the lead guy/future convict there.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/01/11/what-we-know-doug-jensen-iowan-arrested-fbi-after-capitol-riot/6616476002/

The black guy fleeing from Jensen, who refused to bash his face in with a police baton, did so because he was deliberately leading the mob away from the Senate chamber!!!!!

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/11/capitol-police-officer-praised-drawing-angry-mob-away-senate/6619883002/

This is the video that had me pacing back and forth in rage. Why didn't he punch that little pipsqueak right in the throat? Little did I realize what a hero that guy was! USCP Officer Eugene Goodman, good on you man

[Ruzious]

I hope Doug Jensen is arrested and goes to jail for a long, long time

https://kwwl.com/2021/01/07/iowa-man-person-of-interest-among-those-photographed-storming-us-capitol/

Wow, the guy that shot that video did an amazing job. Jensen was clearly the lead guy/future convict there.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/01/11/what-we-know-doug-jensen-iowan-arrested-fbi-after-capitol-riot/6616476002/

The black guy fleeing from Jensen, who refused to bash his face in with a police baton, did so because he was deliberately leading the mob away from the Senate chamber!!!!!

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/11/capitol-police-officer-praised-drawing-angry-mob-away-senate/6619883002/

This is the video that had me pacing back and forth in rage. Why didn't he punch that little pipsqueak right in the throat? Little did I realize what a hero that guy was! USCP Officer Eugene Goodman, good on you man

Goodman was like a pied piper leading all the inbred away. A brilliant and heroic move - to say the least. Jensen... isn't gonna last in jail.

[montestewart]

I hadn't even thought about the possibility of him pardoning the Capitol building terrorists. That would truly be a disaster.

I think Trump would love to pardon the terrorists. He totally approves of their actions. It would have been an interesting idea to wait until Trump is out of office before filing charges. Then maybe he couldn’t do the pardons.

Otoh, maybe his legal advisors are against the pardons. They could be used against him in a future insurrection trial.

The whole area of pardons and impeachment is a pretty untested legal arena, but in theory, the president could give a preemptive blanket amnesty to all who participated in the riot, much as Carter gave a blanket amnesty to all draft evaders. Again, in theory, the impeachment process would deny him the opportunity.

Trump's legal advisors may try to protect him by telling him not to do it, but hasn't he often disregarded his lawyers advice? He is an impulsive, needy child, desperate for the praise of the one group that has consistently given him unconditional, uncritical adulation in the past. A blanket pardon would get him the "True American Hero" and "Courage Under Fire" crap he craves.

Can he award himself a Presidential Medal of Freedom? Because you know he wants it. Probably inquired about the Medal of Honor too.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[DCZards]

Talking to one of my neighbors here in Anacostia - absolutely NOT planning on getting the vaccine. She doesn't trust it.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the growing number of African Americans (many of them young) who I know personally who are now saying they WILL get vaccinated.

Spoke to a young lady (around 35 years old) yesterday who said she happened to be in a Safeway in DC when they announced that they had vaccinations available. She got one on the spot and called a friend to come get one as well.