Knicks - Nuggets PG

[NY 567]

I don't think building around Randle would be the worst thing in the right circumstance, but there are two issues. Number 1 is that this team sucks and we don't have the assets to get better. Number 2 is that Randle might not be this good, he could be riding a hot streak. Jeremy Lin looked like a superstar for a months or so as well.

Idk.. 10 games is a pretty long hot streak.. at what point do you start believing ?

Wasn't Jeremy averaging like 25/8 for around the same amount of games, going 8-0 at a point? Randle is good but I'm not convinced that he's this good.

[prophet_of_rage]

I don't think building around Randle would be the worst thing in the right circumstance, but there are two issues. Number 1 is that this team sucks and we don't have the assets to get better. Number 2 is that Randle might not be this good, he could be riding a hot streak. Jeremy Lin looked like a superstar for a months or so as well.

Idk.. 10 games is a pretty long hot streak.. at what point do you start believing ?

Wasn't Jeremy averaging like 25/8 for around the same amount of games, going 8-0 at a point? Randle is good but I'm not convinced that he's this good.

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

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[NY 567]

Idk.. 10 games is a pretty long hot streak.. at what point do you start believing ?

Wasn't Jeremy averaging like 25/8 for around the same amount of games, going 8-0 at a point? Randle is good but I'm not convinced that he's this good.

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

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While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

[god shammgod]

Wasn't Jeremy averaging like 25/8 for around the same amount of games, going 8-0 at a point? Randle is good but I'm not convinced that he's this good.

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

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While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

what are we missing out on if we don't trade him and let this play out ? what is being offered ? nobody even knows. people seem happy to just grab the 20th pick in the draft or something. but if it's for real that will look horrible. i'd rather risk missing out on a late 1st than trading away a top 20-25 player who just turned 26 for next to nothing.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I dont really think tanking is a good strategy in general at this point, but this looks like a special draft. If we could guarantee ourselves a top 5 pick and best chance at #1 i would take that over winning 33 games. Of course it doesnt work that way and it is never that simple. Being the worst team in the league means the other guys on the team are really bad. At this point whatever happens, happens and can't stress over it too much. Hopefully we get some luck for a change.

i agree with what you're saying. the question people are debating is should we try to sell randle to have an even greater chance at tanking. and right now i'd say no. if you want a greater chance, trade off rivers/payton/burks whoever else. but if randle is gonna play like this you keep him.

It really depends on what we could get for him. I would not call him untouchable, but at this point I know we are not giving him away for Batum either.

We are probably still trying to figure out if we can be competitive or not so we won't will not be selling right now. Maybe if things go downhill and its clear we are out of it we will look to sell some of the vets, give Randle some extra rest and make a move more towards tanking.

Guess right now we just hold and wait and see.

[prophet_of_rage]

Wasn't Jeremy averaging like 25/8 for around the same amount of games, going 8-0 at a point? Randle is good but I'm not convinced that he's this good.

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

Not really because he put up stats. People may not recall but Jordan was condidered an empty stat guy until he won, but he put up numbers and won ... in his seventh yrar. It's maturation. And 7 years isn't a crazy amount of time to develop.

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[seren]

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

Not really because he put up stats. People may not recall but Jordan was condidered an empty stat guy until he won, but he put up numbers and won ... in his seventh yrar. It's maturation. And 7 years isn't a crazy amount of time to develop.

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Which Jordan are we talking about here? DeAndre Jordan?

[seren]

I canceled cable two years ago. Got sling and can only watch ESPN/TNT games. Haven't seen a Knicks game for over a year now. Best decision of my life.

[WargamesX]

The thing is can he be a piece?? Because it looks like to me he has to have the ball in hands/everything run through him to be this version of Julius.

He can’t spot up or space the floor and he can’t defend.

I’m not trying to bash Randle because I love the way he’s improved his mindset and his effort this season.

I just don’t think he can be a guy you can build a legit playoff contender around.

Read on Twitter

No offense but this is BS. He’s playing great all around surrounded by no shooters. Teams would trade for him, especially teams trying to make a playoff push.

The real hinderance to a Randle trade is 1) matching salaries and 2) the PF position is pretty stacked league wide.

The first one can be got around by professionals but us fans figuring it out makes the deal seem harder than it is. The second one is a real issue that makes trading a PF in general a hard thing to do. The only teams that outright need a PF are the Hornets and the Blazers. Other than that every team in the league is good enough at PF I doubt they would come off of picks for Randle unless a injury happened.

I dont think Hornets and Blazers are too needy for a PF.

The Blazers have Convington to play PF. And he is one of the best PFs in the league today. MUltiples guys can play as SF like Derrick, Hood, Trent and even Melo.

Charlotte has PJ Washington (who can play as Center too), Gordon Hayward (who can serve as SF) and Myles Bridges. I dont think they are looking for more PFs.

Honestly if that is the case then you have the biggest conundrum with Randle. The league is rich in good power forwards or the team prefers a SF in the position. So unless we wanted to swap Randle for another one I don’t see us moving him at near his worth.

[WargamesX]

Why don't we treat Randle like our top lotto pick and build around him? We've got the centre to defend the rim and help him rebound. We need two shooters/defenders to give hin the middle and a ballhandler to play pick and roll with him.

If Randle were Zion we'd be rcstatic and yet Randle is better at Zion's style of play.

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He's not our lotto pick so fans dont want to build around him. If it was KP or Obi or RJ playing like Randle is playing now and also 26 yo we would be throwing a party and begging the org to get him help.

To be fair the FO has done the exact opposite of building around Randle, since the moment they got him.

[KnicksGadfly]

Gotta give props to Randle. He’s playing d and hitting threes. As one of the biggest haters around, those 2 skills mean a lot. As long as he doesn’t leave that edge and mentality, I don’t see why that doesn’t continue. This version of Randle can also play off stars.

[Slicin N Dicin]

I think i should create the next game thread, I've done one per season for the last couple of years and am undefeated. Let's start streaking

[Chanel Bomber]

We're praising Randle for his defense but RJ has been better on that end of the floor.

Randle has improved defensively, but I think we're overrating some very theatrical plays that he's made and mistaking that as consistent effort and focus. Julius is still a minus defensively in the grand scheme of things imo, while Barrett has been more focused and more consistent on that end.

My point is, if you're gonna praise Randle for his defense, then mention RJ's defense as a positive if you're gonna kill RJ for his overall impact.

[prophet_of_rage]

While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

Not really because he put up stats. People may not recall but Jordan was condidered an empty stat guy until he won, but he put up numbers and won ... in his seventh yrar. It's maturation. And 7 years isn't a crazy amount of time to develop.

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Which Jordan are we talking about here? DeAndre Jordan?

Michael. Before he was Michael he was called selfish, ballhog and loser because his scoring didn't lead to wins.

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[Jimmit79]

I canceled cable two years ago. Got sling and can only watch ESPN/TNT games. Haven't seen a Knicks game for over a year now. Best decision of my life.

I only watch Knicks on Livestream at first I thought I would regret cutting cable turns out I saved a lot of money instead.

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[Nazrmohamed]

That brief feeling of excitement about the team was fun. Now I know what other basketball fans feel about their teams, or most of them.
Back to apathy.

I didn't enjoy it too much. We'll be drafting 8th and 15th because of that and we should have been smarter.

Oh, the Knicks might suck enough to have a shot at the top 5. I still enjoyed it.

Top 1-3? That's based on luck now.

Team still has to draft competently. Historically they are pretty pedestrian/poor. Not awful. Just never really "hit it out of the park". Mitch is the best value pick so far, but he's no franchise player.

I'd say under Phil/Pills/Mills, it's not looking that good.

Frank? Sucks.
Knox? Mediocre at best.
RJ? "Consensus #3 pick", so hard to shame them here. I think a smarter team trades down. The Knicks are never the smarter team.
Still, RJ looks like a high usage, low efficiency player who does exactly nothing above average.
Mitch was a good pick.
Trier was nice for a year.
Dotson a decent JAG player.
KP was good. He's gone anyway, in a wise move.


The Rose/Perry/Perrin/Whiz Kid Scout collective? I'm not impressed so far.

Obi looks dubious.
Quickley is coming across as Toney Douglas 2.0
Passed on Haliburton who would have addressed MULTIPLE areas of need (PG/outside shooting)
Traded all over the place for Toney Douglas 2.0
Didn't use the 33rd pick or whatever it wound up as on someone who can actually shoot.
Didn't have the balls to trade up for LaMelo.

Maybe they'll get next draft right. I doubt it.

This yr was a crazy draft. Id have killed them if they traded up for Toppin but to see a guy who fell from being mocked as high as 4 drop to 8 I guess I can't kill them as it was a steal. And it still can be. Neither of us know who our real PG is and he's a PF. Point is for him to have looked good you'd need a PG who was actively looking for him as Peyton does Randle but really it just takes time. Yes he was 22 coming in but for a bigman you just don't understand the nba till you're in the nba regardless of age however I think his learning curve will be quick. ( as in 1 yr to 1 1/2 yrs, as opposed to 3 for many 19yr old bigs) But people thinking in week 5 he should look like an allstar after no SL, I don't think thier expectations are realistic and somewhat unfair tbh. Most teams drafting PFs don't expect immediate production.

Now that whole craziness of what we did later on. Its hard to even track it. We go from pick 27 and 39 to 23. We could've stopped there and I would've been elated. Then Maxey gets selected (who we obviously wanted) and we trade back but for 2 picks better than our original in 25 and 33. But then we grab Quickley who I never even scouted thinking he was a 2nd rounder while then trading away pick 33 for future 2nd rounders.

I guess I like Quickley but its reminiscent of when we drafted Backman. Even if Quickley ends up awesome. If you could've taken him with your later pick then you still Fd up. Its about draft value. We could've drafted Desmond Bane or someone else and made Quick the steal of the second round. So its almost like Rose got too crafty for his own good, wanted Maxey and then it was like he never scouted the rest of the draft so instead he gave up and just called Calipari to see what else he had on his roster.

[spree2kawhi]

I didn't enjoy it too much. We'll be drafting 8th and 15th because of that and we should have been smarter.

Oh, the Knicks might suck enough to have a shot at the top 5. I still enjoyed it.

Top 1-3? That's based on luck now.

Team still has to draft competently. Historically they are pretty pedestrian/poor. Not awful. Just never really "hit it out of the park". Mitch is the best value pick so far, but he's no franchise player.

I'd say under Phil/Pills/Mills, it's not looking that good.

Frank? Sucks.
Knox? Mediocre at best.
RJ? "Consensus #3 pick", so hard to shame them here. I think a smarter team trades down. The Knicks are never the smarter team.
Still, RJ looks like a high usage, low efficiency player who does exactly nothing above average.
Mitch was a good pick.
Trier was nice for a year.
Dotson a decent JAG player.
KP was good. He's gone anyway, in a wise move.


The Rose/Perry/Perrin/Whiz Kid Scout collective? I'm not impressed so far.

Obi looks dubious.
Quickley is coming across as Toney Douglas 2.0
Passed on Haliburton who would have addressed MULTIPLE areas of need (PG/outside shooting)
Traded all over the place for Toney Douglas 2.0
Didn't use the 33rd pick or whatever it wound up as on someone who can actually shoot.
Didn't have the balls to trade up for LaMelo.

Maybe they'll get next draft right. I doubt it.

This yr was a crazy draft. Id have killed them if they traded up for Toppin but to see a guy who fell from being mocked as high as 4 drop to 8 I guess I can't kill them as it was a steal. And it still can be. Neither of us know who our real PG is and he's a PF. Point is for him to have looked good you'd need a PG who was actively looking for him as Peyton does Randle but really it just takes time. Yes he was 22 coming in but for a bigman you just don't understand the nba till you're in the nba regardless of age however I think his learning curve will be quick. ( as in 1 yr to 1 1/2 yrs, as opposed to 3 for many 19yr old bigs) But people thinking in week 5 he should look like an allstar after no SL, I don't think thier expectations are realistic and somewhat unfair tbh. Most teams drafting PFs don't expect immediate production.

Now that whole craziness of what we did later on. Its hard to even track it. We go from pick 27 and 39 to 23. We could've stopped there and I would've been elated. Then Maxey gets selected (who we obviously wanted) and we trade back but for 2 picks better than our original in 25 and 33. But then we grab Quickley who I never even scouted thinking he was a 2nd rounder while then trading away pick 33 for future 2nd rounders.

I guess I like Quickley but its reminiscent of when we drafted Backman. Even if Quickley ends up awesome. If you could've taken him with your later pick then you still Fd up. Its about draft value. We could've drafted Desmond Bane or someone else and made Quick the steal of the second round. So its almost like Rose got too crafty for his own good, wanted Maxey and then it was like he never scouted the rest of the draft so instead he gave up and just called Calipari to see what else he had on his roster.

Maybe he wasn't ever aware of how genius it all seemed at first

[Nazrmohamed]

Jeremy Lin was an end of bench guard that had never seen significant action or had been scouted. Randle has been 7 years in the league. He has always scored and rebounded and defended decently. He is now maturing into a role.

Lin is more alin to Quickley than Randle.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

While there is truth to that, this is quite the jump. Randle was considered an inefficient empty stat player who couldn't defend who has seemingly morphed into a top 20-25 player overnight. Pretty aggressive jump for a 7 year vet

Not really because he put up stats. People may not recall but Jordan was condidered an empty stat guy until he won, but he put up numbers and won ... in his seventh yrar. It's maturation. And 7 years isn't a crazy amount of time to develop.

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There's still plenty of time for him still to be considered an empty stats player. I never have subscribed to that terminology unless we're talking about inefficient points scored. Its a fan driven term that guys in basketball rarely use. A player is a collection of production. Its up to a coach to make that production benefit the team concept. Thibs is doing that right now, Randle is same as he ever was.

But of there is some optical illusion making it seem that Randle is a way better player than before you better trade him or trade others to help him cuz as it stands our division just got a whole lot tougher with one trade and this draft is generational.