Knicks- Hornets PG

[dc]

We should’ve drafted Haliburton and RJ is a scrub. All these kids here who follow high school ball fell in love with him because he dominated in Canada.

I seem to remember people here didn't want Haliburton after they saw the form on his shot during pre-draft workouts. They were either clowning on him or saying "Ewwww.....no thanks."

But dude shot 42% from 3 in college, ugly form and all, and was scoring at all 3 levels to go along with very good defense.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

We should’ve drafted Haliburton and RJ is a scrub. All these kids here who follow high school ball fell in love with him because he dominated in Canada.

I seem to remember people here didn't want Haliburton after they saw the form on his shot during pre-draft workouts. They were either clowning on him or saying "Ewwww.....no thanks."

But dude shot 42% from 3 in college, ugly form and all, and was scoring at all 3 levels to go along with very good defense.

He got the "Frankiburton" tag, as well as Fred VanFelton.


So many people here didn't want FVV, Haliburton and Hayward, now just think of how good we'd be if we had those 3 or any combo of 2 of them

[K_ick_God]

To clarify —

Refocus on RJ, Knox and Mitch. And Obi.

Trade Randle now with his stock high. Get rid of Elf by any means necessary.

RJ will make some shots and Quickley can help him. He is a good decision maker and has other ways to score. He can pass and cut. Invest in him. If it fails you still have a good scorer who can facilitate and play. Third scorer with toughness at worst IMO.

Most of all perhaps trade Randle with stock high, replace Elf with Frank, let it roll.

Randle is a phony lead scorer, that’s not as valuable as a guy who can grow into a fine second or third scorer and be less mistake ridden ... Randle is a high mistake low IQ scorer with an unreliable J.

[BugginOut]

I don't know what happened to Quickley, but he went from making great decisions his first couple of games to playing timid. He doesn't even try to draw fouls anymore. I wonder if the coaching staff told him to stop doing it. 2-23 the last 3 games. I'm getting worried that he is not capable of shooting a 3 off the dribble or his release is too slow, which would be pretty troubling as there are few open opportunities for a 6'3 spot up shooter.

I don't know what is up with RJ, but since his 3 point shot is gone, the rest of his scoring has fell apart. He can't even get easy looks to get his confidence back, cause the paint is packed with teams playing the 2-3 zone. This offense is really not catered to his skillset. Even though his FGA and minutes are up, his usage is down. RJ is not an off ball player, he is not an on-ball player either if he can't score. Hopefully he pulls it together

Randle had his worse game this season. He just felt invisible out there. I think the minutes and being on a back to back got to him. No reason he should be taking less than 15 shots a game

Knox played a great first half and a meh 2nd half. I don't know why Thibs didn't play him after he was hooping, since he has been pretty good with riding the hot hand this season. He was our only threat from deep and without him we only scored 18 points in the 3rd. Between this and taking Mitch out in OKC, Thibs has made some head scratching decisions with personnel.

Payton was meh, but you can't really hate him cause he is the only guard we have that is actually consistent right now even though I'd love anyone else get his minutes.

Mitch good as usual, but team low -27.

River was decent all I can really say

Noel was good after having the horrendous game against Denver

All and all I just don't know how we expect our offense to increase. Burks might help, but I just don't see this team getting any better. The main thing I don't understand is that we are last in pace. WE ARE NOT A HALF COURT TEAM. There were 3 or 4 plays I saw where we had the ball in transition and we slowed it down to let everyone catch up This makes no sense as I thought our main attribute was our youth. RJ, Quick, Knox and Mitch would score better in transition. Being slow only helps Payton and Randle who both like to dominate the ball and facilitate the offense at their own tempo. We can not survive in a half court offense with crap 3 point shooters and no shot creators. Maybe we can't push the pace because with the minutes we are playing we would burn out even faster, but the offense needs a overhaul.

I'm starting to think Thibs ball is not the answer. We need a comeback game soon or I'm going to start looking at our lotto odds.

[Spree2Houston]

Give me Jalen Suggs

[Davis18]

Couple of thoughts:

• Thibs is going to burn our guys out. The starters are tired. Guys that are league leaders in MPG are playing in the garbage time of blow outs. I get Thinbs doesn't trust the end of bench guys, (Iggy, Pinson, DSJ, Harper), but he needs to lean on them in 2 - 3 minute segments. Hopefully the starters can get longer rests when Burks, Frank, and Toppin get back

• Despite what everyone is saying, RJ absolutely has to take those wide open 3s. If the other guys on the floor are going to spend 15 - 20 seconds tilting the defense getting him a wide open shot, he has to take that every time. I know it looks rough because of his shooting slump, but its the right play. For a team in our position, process > results.

• Talking about RJ, we have got to get the kid in better spaced lineups. Our starting lineup is constructed of 4 guys who all primarily score at the rim. The way that lineup is made, the ball is going to constantly find RJ as the outlet for Payton & Randle drives. I think he plays better with the bench guys anyways. Just like last year our bench has much better spacing than our starters.

• IQ has to stop standing 5 feet behind the 3 point line. When he catches the ball out there, he's to far to blow by his guy and he's clearly not strong enough to shoot from that distance. He's constantly caught in that no mans land. Also, he needs to be ready to shoot instantly when he catches it. For a guy with a reputation as a shooter, he's pretty gun shy about launching it. IDK if he's trying to balance scoring / playmaking, but he's gotta shoot those instantly. Thats why you made it to the league

• When everyone is healthy, Thibs has to really shake up the lineups. We aren't getting shooting from the 4/5 spot anytime soon so he needs to get IQ, Burks, Frank, Rivers, RJ, Knox pretty much all the mins are the 1/2/3. I don't think our team really needs Elf's interior scoring and his playmaking isn't bringing that much to me. Bullock has just been really inconsistent for a shooter. Reminds me of Ellington last season where he's either super hot or ice cold

Great summary.
I agree with almost.
Thibs can grind starters into the ground, not really care.
We had such a short training camp, need all the practice we can get.
Why not have it in real games, we are not going anywhere any time soon.
I definitely agree that RJ needs to continue shooting. His shooting MUST be improved.
We need players back from injuries ASAP.

[prophet_of_rage]

These games are so much better when you just look for the positives with the kids

LaMelo would have been nice though

True, unfortunately the kids suck

Quickley needs some time though, I see the potential but I also see why he was selected in the second round.

He wasn't, though.

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[knickstape4ever]

There just aren’t many point guards or true playmakers available. They’re the most rare player type in the league, the unique talent who can make others better. After this little evaluation period Thibs and Rose referred to it’ll be on Rose and Perry to find a good deal.

LaMelo and Haliburton were attainable tho. But CAA...

whats bad is Haliburton was CAA and we still passed on him.

but is Leon's son part of Hali's team?

[knickstape4ever]

this team is the bottom-5 team we thought before the season. lack of talent and poor roster construction

the worst part is that the young players aren't producing outside of Mitch

[ibraheim718]

I absolutely love the way Lamelo lets the game breathe. For a player as active as he is he has a great sense of not forcing the issue.

[Davis18]

Keep grinding, I have faith in RJ.

Season may have some positives but I don’t see Randle as worth it. Trade him.

Quickley can play and will get it together.

Get rid of Elf and play Frank.

Go back to D.

Knox making strides. A team built around Randle is not what we need. He’s not very good.

Mitch and others seem tired. Not overly concerned but should be a refocus on seeing what RJ can do. He makes good decisions, his shot will come, he plays less selfishly with more leash and doesn’t make the mistakes Randle will always make.

I want to see RJ facilitate more.
RJ seems to be much less selfish than other 2. (Randle/Payton)
Let's surround him w shooters for change.
IQ - Burks - RJ - Knox - Mitch/Randle/Obi
There must be a reason that he was once highest rated prospect.

[prophet_of_rage]

Our points need to attack, this is how we were winning, what happened, why change style of ball we were playing, I dont understand this team man.

Because defences just sagged and zoned and defied us to shoot. We can't.

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[ibraheim718]

What did y'all think of that sequence where Randle turned it over and got butthurt and barked on Knox? Who was right/wrong? Was that leadership or some sucker schit?

Randle just has that loser attitude. A tiger doesn't change it's stripes. Dude is basically in a contract year on a bad team looking to get his numbers up for that paycheck. We should be looking at trade options while his value is the best its ever been

Gets it.

[Spree2Houston]

Growing up in the 90s as a kid, I thought the Knicks would always be good. I never thought they would turn into the Cleveland Browns as I became an adult.

[knickstape4ever]

tanking is necessary. w/ the young player underperforming, we need a legitimate young star, and tanking gives us the best opportunity to land one

the FO should be in sell mode. id' be curious to know what Randle's value is

[Gravy]

LaMelo and Haliburton were attainable tho. But CAA...

whats bad is Haliburton was CAA and we still passed on him.

Frank put fear into folks now thinking any player with his build at the PG spot is the next Frank. But Haliburton is so much better. Haliburton was definitely undervalued, on this board and by some front offices as well because he fell too low than he should have.

So, in essence you can say Frank prevented us from getting Donovan Mitchell, SGA and Haliburton. my goodness...

[prophet_of_rage]

Whodathunk Alec Burks would be the life-line of this team.

He isn't. Just keep acquiring talent.

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[BugginOut]

Saw this on reddit:

"RJ 0-10 with the starters, 5-8 with the bench. All his scoring came playing with the bench unit...We need to make a line up change man. He does work with the starters because his jumpshot is broken right now and the paint is clogged as hell with the starting unit.

At least with the bench he gets to run and attack the basket more freely."

This goes back to my pace point. RJ gets his points in the flow of the offense, since he is playing with Randle he doesn't get to handle the ball as much which explains his low usage. If we are going to play slow in the half court with Randle and Payton we should play RJ with the bench and insert a shooter. Would make the offense so much easier.

[Davis18]

tanking is necessary. w/ the young player underperforming, we need a legitimate young star, and tanking gives us the best opportunity to land one

the FO should be in sell mode. id' be curious to know what Randle's value is

Although I agree 100%, let's give Thibs 10 more games before get on tank.

[prophet_of_rage]

Why do Knicks fans always blame coaches for players lack of talent if someone could become respectable shooter from a horrible career shooter in a year then there wouldn't be a problem for lack of shooters in league.

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Have to have a villain.

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