Knicks- Hornets PG

[booyaka_jones]

I don't know why half ya'll mad in the first place. There's a large contingent of this fanbase that values defense over shooting and poo poo'ed basically every shooter available in FA /trade scenarios. This is what ya'll want isn't it? Outside of like, the last game, we've played good defense, our metrics are in the upper portion of the league through 10 games. This is ya'll dream team, why so mad?

[3toheadmelo]

Yea for a few games. You like him and I want to like him. But he's a flatfooted defender and a mistake prone offensive player whose jumper is really not that good.

If Randle's J was a little better he'd be a legit 1st scorer. But it's not and his passing comes and goes. He's a turnover machine really.

He's talented like a lot of NBA players and he's a potent offensive player but as a package, he's not the guy for us. Those mistakes he makes -- he'll always make them and they're costly.

In basketball mistakes kill you. A missed shot is much better than a mistake. Randle standing around while guys dunk, or throwing the ball away, or taking a bad shot ... these are all mistakes and the mistakes sink your team. Lower usage, different team, bye.

He’s been passing extremely well pretty much every game. Which games has he not besides last night?

The impact Randle has on our team is enormous. Without him, we’re the worst team in the league.

Read on Twitter

Yes Randle has been the best Knick for sure. He's the most talented offensive player but he also comes with baggage. He lacks a high basketball IQ and his D stinks. He's kind of a losing player.

He has put aside those lapses and caught fire. But I don't think he's the hot Randle, I think he's the guy who gets caught napping while people dunk on us.

Right now he's basically carrying the offense because he's the most offensively potent player in his prime. But I just don't think you build around him. I am basically betting the Under on Randle. I've seen enough -- he is going to be a mistake prone guy on O and D.

But yeah he's clearly been the guy carrying the team thus far. To a 5-6 record and 3 straight L's though.

His defense has been good

Read on Twitter

I don’t think anyone here is saying the Knicks can go far with him as our #1 player. But he’s simply a great piece to keep around. I mean the fact he led us to our best start since 2013 with the hardest schedule in the league is very impressive. Most of us thought we would be 1-10

[prophet_of_rage]

He’s missing shots but he’s still hanging in there. We already know what Randle is.

He’s missing shots and being a complete net negative on the court. Randle is making teammates who can actually shoot better (Knox, Rivers). R does nothing out there to help us.. he only hurts

What I see from Rivers is that he gets the ball and is asked to do too much because the ball is not moving. He's made some 3's but I don't think it's because of Randle. I also don't think Knox will regress if Randle is dealt away.

Randle is tradable now but he's not leading the Knicks very far. He's too many mistakes, bad D, turnovers, and his offensive isn't good enough to overcome it. He is always in the middle of some defensive lapse and he's a ball stopper too. He's taking shots now that aren't even close. This is closer to who he is than the hot start guy. Sadly lol.

His jumper comes back down as it is now and he's not a really good player.

RJ is struggling but he has a good makeup and enough skill. You don't need to overplay him or count on him a ton yet but he has a chance to be a very good player. Randle is a good 2nd or 3rd scorer somewhere else.

Elfrid is a disaster. Give his PT to Frank and keep developing Frank.

Into what? Elfrid?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[Synciere]

I wasn’t comfortable going to 30 mil for Gordon Hayward in free agency, but I think I was wrong there. A lot of our issues would be mitigated by his addition.

[prophet_of_rage]

He’s missing shots and being a complete net negative on the court. Randle is making teammates who can actually shoot better (Knox, Rivers). R does nothing out there to help us.. he only hurts

What I see from Rivers is that he gets the ball and is asked to do too much because the ball is not moving. He's made some 3's but I don't think it's because of Randle. I also don't think Knox will regress if Randle is dealt away.

Randle is tradable now but he's not leading the Knicks very far. He's too many mistakes, bad D, turnovers, and his offensive isn't good enough to overcome it. He is always in the middle of some defensive lapse and he's a ball stopper too. He's taking shots now that aren't even close. This is closer to who he is than the hot start guy. Sadly lol.

His jumper comes back down as it is now and he's not a really good player.

RJ is struggling but he has a good makeup and enough skill. You don't need to overplay him or count on him a ton yet but he has a chance to be a very good player. Randle is a good 2nd or 3rd scorer somewhere else.

Elfrid is a disaster. Give his PT to Frank and keep developing Frank.

Are you making these claims all off of Randle’s 1 bad game last night???

And some baseless assertions.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[K_ick_God]

He’s been passing extremely well pretty much every game. Which games has he not besides last night?

The impact Randle has on our team is enormous. Without him, we’re the worst team in the league.

Read on Twitter

Yes Randle has been the best Knick for sure. He's the most talented offensive player but he also comes with baggage. He lacks a high basketball IQ and his D stinks. He's kind of a losing player.

He has put aside those lapses and caught fire. But I don't think he's the hot Randle, I think he's the guy who gets caught napping while people dunk on us.

Right now he's basically carrying the offense because he's the most offensively potent player in his prime. But I just don't think you build around him. I am basically betting the Under on Randle. I've seen enough -- he is going to be a mistake prone guy on O and D.

But yeah he's clearly been the guy carrying the team thus far. To a 5-6 record and 3 straight L's though.

His defense has been good

Read on Twitter

I don’t think anyone here is saying the Knicks can go far with him as our #1 player. But he’s simply a great piece to keep around. I mean the fact he led us to our best start since 2013 with the hardest schedule in the league is very impressive. Most of us thought we would be 1-6.

Randle is capable of good moments and certainly is the best scorer on the team. No question. But the question is where you think he's going and whether his flaws are worth it.

I say the answer is no.

If he plays D well all year and the team is pretty good with him as the best player, I'll say I was wrong.

[DaGawd]

To me the way to judge a good player is to think about whether they can grind out a W. I see RJ being a guy who comes through for you in a big playoff game by keeping at it doggedly, playing team ball, and coming through in the clutch with ENOUGH shooting to be a good player but probably not a franchise.

Randle is not a grind it out guy. In fact he sort of sucks in close games. I think he's bad news, honestly. He seems to lose focus, he is not really playing a team game most of the time (or his O is not conducive to ball movement, the same deal) and I really don't believe winning is a priority for him.

Sell high.

I wish I could see what you see.. RJ to me looks like one of those guys who might have peaked in high school.. once he met guys his size with equal or better athleticism he couldn’t adapt and his skills aren’t up to par to make up for it.. I hope he proves me wrong but that’s how it’s looking

[thebuzzardman]

I wasn’t comfortable going to 30 mil for Gordon Hayward in free agency, but I think I was wrong there. A lot of our issues would be mitigated by his addition.

He could have singlehandedly gotten the Knicks to their 28 wins in a 72 game season.

[K_ick_God]

Frank and RJ are low mistake players. RJ's mistakes are misses. Not bad shots or turnovers. Both could grind out a big win. That's not happening with Julius.

Frank may not be a starter and RJ may not be franchise, but the question is the makeup of your club from top to bottom. If you have good players who can support a franchise player, then develop those guys. Why pretend Randle is franchise though? He's not. Not for us.

[3toheadmelo]

Yes Randle has been the best Knick for sure. He's the most talented offensive player but he also comes with baggage. He lacks a high basketball IQ and his D stinks. He's kind of a losing player.

He has put aside those lapses and caught fire. But I don't think he's the hot Randle, I think he's the guy who gets caught napping while people dunk on us.

Right now he's basically carrying the offense because he's the most offensively potent player in his prime. But I just don't think you build around him. I am basically betting the Under on Randle. I've seen enough -- he is going to be a mistake prone guy on O and D.

But yeah he's clearly been the guy carrying the team thus far. To a 5-6 record and 3 straight L's though.

His defense has been good

Read on Twitter

I don’t think anyone here is saying the Knicks can go far with him as our #1 player. But he’s simply a great piece to keep around. I mean the fact he led us to our best start since 2013 with the hardest schedule in the league is very impressive. Most of us thought we would be 1-6.

Randle is capable of good moments and certainly is the best scorer on the team. No question. But the question is where you think he's going and whether his flaws are worth it.

I say the answer is no.

If he plays D well all year and the team is pretty good with him as the best player, I'll say I was wrong.

Your expectations for him is unrealistic though. He would have to drop like 60 points a game for us to be in the playoffs. He has no help. Somebody has to step it up. It can’t just be Randle by himself every single night.

[K_ick_God]

To me the way to judge a good player is to think about whether they can grind out a W. I see RJ being a guy who comes through for you in a big playoff game by keeping at it doggedly, playing team ball, and coming through in the clutch with ENOUGH shooting to be a good player but probably not a franchise.

Randle is not a grind it out guy. In fact he sort of sucks in close games. I think he's bad news, honestly. He seems to lose focus, he is not really playing a team game most of the time (or his O is not conducive to ball movement, the same deal) and I really don't believe winning is a priority for him.

Sell high.

I wish I could see what you see.. RJ to me looks like one of those guys who might have peaked in high school.. once he met guys his size with equal or better athleticism he couldn’t adapt and his skills aren’t up to par to make up for it.. I hope he proves me wrong but that’s how it’s looking

I think that's a fair argument actually. His J is off now and he doesn't have eye popping offensive talent. But he has enough to build on and he does have a lot of size and IQ. It's not all about raw talent or leaping. There are a lot of guys who have had that and failed in the NBA. Dennis Smith types.

[3toheadmelo]

Frank and RJ are low mistake players. RJ's mistakes are misses. Not bad shots or turnovers. Both could grind out a big win. That's not happening with Julius.

Frank may not be a starter and RJ may not be franchise, but the question is the makeup of your club from top to bottom. If you have good players who can support a franchise player, then develop those guys. Why pretend Randle is franchise though? He's not. Not for us.

It’s so odd that you’re praising RJ and Frank but bashing Randle when it should be the complete opposite (I’ll give Frank a pass cause he’s been out) but RJ has been completely killing us. The eye test and stats say so.

[K_ick_God]

His defense has been good

Read on Twitter

I don’t think anyone here is saying the Knicks can go far with him as our #1 player. But he’s simply a great piece to keep around. I mean the fact he led us to our best start since 2013 with the hardest schedule in the league is very impressive. Most of us thought we would be 1-6.

Randle is capable of good moments and certainly is the best scorer on the team. No question. But the question is where you think he's going and whether his flaws are worth it.

I say the answer is no.

If he plays D well all year and the team is pretty good with him as the best player, I'll say I was wrong.

Your expectations for him is unrealistic though. He would have to drop like 60 points a game for us to be in the playoffs. He has no help. Somebody has to step it up. It can’t just be Randle by himself every single night.

Not like I completely disagree but I do think you're missing one thing: He's a guy who needs 1st scorer touches and freedom to give you good production. He takes up a lot, with bad D (not about stats right now, about just whether he is truly a good defender, and I think way too many lapses), and makes mistakes.

Yeah if the Knicks had him and Hayward, that's probably a playoff team that can win some games and that'd be fun. But doesn't mean it's really the framework of a very good team.

[K_ick_God]

Frank and RJ are low mistake players. RJ's mistakes are misses. Not bad shots or turnovers. Both could grind out a big win. That's not happening with Julius.

Frank may not be a starter and RJ may not be franchise, but the question is the makeup of your club from top to bottom. If you have good players who can support a franchise player, then develop those guys. Why pretend Randle is franchise though? He's not. Not for us.

It’s so odd that you’re praising RJ and Frank but bashing Randle when it should be the complete opposite (I’ll give Frank a pass cause he’s been out) but RJ has been completely killing us. The eye test and stats say so.

But he's 20 and I like what he brings in several areas. I'd rather take a risky bet on him than continue pretending Randle is a keeper.

[Gravy]

RJ is playing like a taller Payton right now. Cant shoot from anywhere on the court, all their points are on drives, tunnel vision. Its costing us games when the guy who was supposed to be our best player is one of the worst.

This is like when everyone blamed Melo for the Knicks not being good when our second best scorer was crazy JR Smith. Who is out there to help Randle?

[DaGawd]

RJ is playing like a taller Payton right now. Cant shoot from anywhere on the court, all their points are on drives, tunnel vision. Its costing us games when the guy who was supposed to be our best player is one of the worst.

This is like when everyone blamed Melo for the Knicks not being good when our second best scorer was crazy JR Smith. Who is out there to help Randle?

FACTS

[Handledatruth]

Keep grinding, I have faith in RJ.

Season may have some positives but I don’t see Randle as worth it. Trade him.

Quickley can play and will get it together.

Get rid of Elf and play Frank.

Go back to D.

Knox making strides. A team built around Randle is not what we need. He’s not very good.

Mitch and others seem tired. Not overly concerned but should be a refocus on seeing what RJ can do. He makes good decisions, his shot will come, he plays less selfishly with more leash and doesn’t make the mistakes Randle will always make.

This

[3toheadmelo]

Randle is capable of good moments and certainly is the best scorer on the team. No question. But the question is where you think he's going and whether his flaws are worth it.

I say the answer is no.

If he plays D well all year and the team is pretty good with him as the best player, I'll say I was wrong.

Your expectations for him is unrealistic though. He would have to drop like 60 points a game for us to be in the playoffs. He has no help. Somebody has to step it up. It can’t just be Randle by himself every single night.

Not like I completely disagree but I do think you're missing one thing: He's a guy who needs 1st scorer touches and freedom to give you good production. He takes up a lot, with bad D (not about stats right now, about just whether he is truly a good defender, and I think way too many lapses), and makes mistakes.

Yeah if the Knicks had him and Hayward, that's probably a playoff team that can win some games and that'd be fun. But doesn't mean it's really the framework of a very good team.

Randle doesn’t need 1st scorer touches to be good. He only gets those touches cause he’s the only one who can score and pass on the team.
I don’t think Randle’s defense is as bad as you say. Stats say otherwise and so does my eyes.

Besides last night, it’s hard to complain about Randle’s production on both ends this season so far really. But whatever, agree to disagree.

[K_ick_God]

RJ is playing like a taller Payton right now. Cant shoot from anywhere on the court, all their points are on drives, tunnel vision. Its costing us games when the guy who was supposed to be our best player is one of the worst.

This is like when everyone blamed Melo for the Knicks not being good when our second best scorer was crazy JR Smith. Who is out there to help Randle?

FACTS

I'm not blaming Randle for the Knicks not being good. But I don't think RJ is a taller Elfrid, although I won't disagree that he's playing poorly and in a similar way to Elf lol.

Obviously this is about where you think things are going. Like Card Shark. I think RJ can be part of a really good team and a big part. I think Randle is just a guy who can put up points. There's a big difference.

Randle is productive though yeah. Productive is not always what you should look at as far as the future though.

And talent isn't all that it's about either. It's of course about winning. RJ doesn't need to score 23 PPG to help us win. And Randle's 20 PPG is not the thing of a future high quality team ... IMO.

[3toheadmelo]

Frank and RJ are low mistake players. RJ's mistakes are misses. Not bad shots or turnovers. Both could grind out a big win. That's not happening with Julius.

Frank may not be a starter and RJ may not be franchise, but the question is the makeup of your club from top to bottom. If you have good players who can support a franchise player, then develop those guys. Why pretend Randle is franchise though? He's not. Not for us.

It’s so odd that you’re praising RJ and Frank but bashing Randle when it should be the complete opposite (I’ll give Frank a pass cause he’s been out) but RJ has been completely killing us. The eye test and stats say so.

But he's 20 and I like what he brings in several areas. I'd rather take a risky bet on him than continue pretending Randle is a keeper.

What good is he doing for us? He’s been ass in every aspect of the game. He’s consistently missing open players, he can’t even make wide open shots, and his defense hasn’t even been that great either.