Mo Swag

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If he jumps from year 2 to 3 at the same rate of his jump from year 1 to 2... he'll be knocking on the door of Giannis territory! So... I guess that's not happening!

As to "budding star," I don't think there was a 3-game stretch this year where Moe produced the kind of per-40-minute numbers Thomas Bryant produced in 2018-19. I haven't checked, but even without taking a look I'd put $$ on it.

Still, the best predictor of improvement tomorrow is improvement today, so for sure there's reason to hope he'll become a pretty good player.

Wagner's early season defensive metrics were way better than anything Bryant has ever posted.

Oh, and Wagner had a 3-game stretch from 11/15 to 11/20 when he averaged 30 points, 13.4 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.5 blocks, 3.3 turnovers per 40 minutes on a TS% of .863, with a 3P% of .750. Let's see Bryant beat that!

Most important -- I just wrote an extremely positive post about Moe Wagner. I'd rather it not be turned into a criticism of him, which it was not.

As to the 3 game stretch, Moe had an unbelievable game on 11/15, grabbing 15 boards & scoring 30 points on 13 of 15 shooting. On top of which, he did all that damage in just over 25 minutes. Wow!

In our next 2 games, on 11/17 & 11/20, he scored 26 points in 45 minutes -- @3 more points per 40 minutes than his season average. He grabbed 9 boards (in this case a lot fewer than his season average).

Still, in the 2d & 3d of the stretch he shot the ball great! He got the combined 26 points on only 16 shots & 1 FTA.

In fact, it didn't stop there! in the next game -- the 4th of this run -- though he only scored 7 points, he did it on just 5 shots.

That's some amazing shooting over those 4 games! 26-38 -- & 10 of them were 3-point makes, so it was 62 points on 38 shots.

On top of which he proceeded to go 17-24 in the next 3 games for a total of 36 points (.750 TS% for those 3 games) before finally cooling off vs. the Lakers.

In all, that was an incredible run of shooting -- 98 points on 62 shots & 3 FTAs over 7 games for an astronomical .774 TS%. It does seem unlikely that Thomas Bryant ever did that (he did go 14-14 in one game last season, if I remember right). Bryant, otoh, did post a .674 TS% on that entire season -- over 1500 minutes.

The comparison is pointless of course. If I initiated it, then it's my fault. These guys are both Washington Wizards -- the better either of them plays the happier everyone is. The main story on Moritz Wagner is that he got a lot better this year! May it continue.

Mo Wagner will have a long, productive NBA career.

I think the Wizards are mathematically challenged and they don’t appreciate numerical improvements in a player’s growth. They’re idiots.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnemo01.html

Aside from prodigious fouling Mo’s a damn good young player. He made strides last season. He’s been as good in short minutes as Robinson has been bad but last year’s data and 15 PER means NOTHING to doofuses who want veteran names.

[Eli Babak]

I'm not a fan of Wagner but they should give him Lopez's minutes for a 5-10 game run and see if he can contribute in a positive way. Robinson is a lost cause.

Off-topic, but why on earth Pasecnicks is on the roster? No need for 4 centers.

[LyricalRico]

I'm not a fan of Wagner but they should give him Lopez's minutes for a 5-10 game run and see if he can contribute in a positive way. Robinson is a lost cause.

Off-topic, but why on earth Pasecnicks is on the roster? No need for 4 centers.

I actually thought Wagner was effective in the first game, and was surprised he hasn't gotten more run since. I guess I shouldn't be because...well...Scott Brooks.

[Dat2U]

Wagner's early season defensive metrics were way better than anything Bryant has ever posted.

Oh, and Wagner had a 3-game stretch from 11/15 to 11/20 when he averaged 30 points, 13.4 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.5 blocks, 3.3 turnovers per 40 minutes on a TS% of .863, with a 3P% of .750. Let's see Bryant beat that!

Most important -- I just wrote an extremely positive post about Moe Wagner. I'd rather it not be turned into a criticism of him, which it was not.

As to the 3 game stretch, Moe had an unbelievable game on 11/15, grabbing 15 boards & scoring 30 points on 13 of 15 shooting. On top of which, he did all that damage in just over 25 minutes. Wow!

In our next 2 games, on 11/17 & 11/20, he scored 26 points in 45 minutes -- @3 more points per 40 minutes than his season average. He grabbed 9 boards (in this case a lot fewer than his season average).

Still, in the 2d & 3d of the stretch he shot the ball great! He got the combined 26 points on only 16 shots & 1 FTA.

In fact, it didn't stop there! in the next game -- the 4th of this run -- though he only scored 7 points, he did it on just 5 shots.

That's some amazing shooting over those 4 games! 26-38 -- & 10 of them were 3-point makes, so it was 62 points on 38 shots.

On top of which he proceeded to go 17-24 in the next 3 games for a total of 36 points (.750 TS% for those 3 games) before finally cooling off vs. the Lakers.

In all, that was an incredible run of shooting -- 98 points on 62 shots & 3 FTAs over 7 games for an astronomical .774 TS%. It does seem unlikely that Thomas Bryant ever did that (he did go 14-14 in one game last season, if I remember right). Bryant, otoh, did post a .674 TS% on that entire season -- over 1500 minutes.

The comparison is pointless of course. If I initiated it, then it's my fault. These guys are both Washington Wizards -- the better either of them plays the happier everyone is. The main story on Moritz Wagner is that he got a lot better this year! May it continue.

Mo Wagner will have a long, productive NBA career.

I think the Wizards are mathematically challenged and they don’t appreciate numerical improvements in a player’s growth. They’re idiots.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnemo01.html

Aside from prodigious fouling Mo’s a damn good young player. He made strides last season. He’s been as good in short minutes as Robinson has been bad but last year’s data and 15 PER means NOTHING to doofuses who want veteran names.

Sorry CCJ. If a C can't defend, he ain't worth a damn b/c of the production he's giving up on the other end as the last line of defense. Most wouldn't dispute Wagner has some offensive utility but it doesn't matter because he's a hack box that can't move laterally.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I never said he wasn’t a hack box. He’s a Vlade Divac at best on defense. Mo flops or tries to draw charges. He’s physically overwhelmed on defense but dude was a Laker selection for a reason. I’m not championing Wagner as a great prospect.

I am saying Lopez is not a better option on this roster at this time. Wagner not getting renewed makes me think since Brooks won’t play him at all the Wizards might as well release him. Just like Jason Smith has a long career I foresee Moritz Wagner finding minutes and being utilized on another few teams in the future, Dat for the skills we agree on.

Luka Garza....him and Mo Wagner? Musing over your defense assertion.

[nate33]

Through 68 total minutes played so far this season, Mo Wagner is currently averaging on a per 36 basis:

16.9 points
10.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
0.0 blocks
0.5 steals
0.5 turnover
9.5 fouls
.700 2P%
.571 3P%
.780 TS%

The team is +17.1 when he is on the court, though in a meaningless sample size.

[tontoz]

He really need to stop trying to draw charges all the time. He should take a page from Deni, just jump straight up with hands up. Sure he won't actually block the shot but at least he will contest it and be less likely to be called for a foul.

Refs are so used to him trying to draw charges that the refs seem to give the benefit of the doubt to the offense.

[FAH1223]

Through 68 total minutes played so far this season, Mo Wagner is currently averaging on a per 36 basis:

16.9 points
10.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
0.0 blocks
0.5 steals
0.5 turnover
9.5 fouls
.700 2P%
.571 3P%
.780 TS%

The team is +17.1 when he is on the court, though in a meaningless sample size.

Threat title should add 'Mo Swag'

Gooden's nick name for him is good

[Ruzious]

Through 68 total minutes played so far this season, Mo Wagner is currently averaging on a per 36 basis:

16.9 points
10.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
0.0 blocks
0.5 steals
0.5 turnover
9.5 fouls
.700 2P%
.571 3P%
.780 TS%

The team is +17.1 when he is on the court, though in a meaningless sample size.

Threat title should add 'Mo Swag'

Gooden's nick name for him is good

Better than Mo Flop, for sure.

[nate33]

Bump for WallToWall

Didnt find the dedicated Mo Wagner thread...is there one?
Does anyone think that Wagner can develop into something more than a one trick pony on D? He seems to have an affinity to drawing charges, but thats about the extent of his D. On O, he hasnt really shown much either. He is still only 23 y.o, and has some growth to be realized, but by now, he should have shown some flashes that would convince us that he is more than, at best, a journey-man F/C.

The Wizards declined his 4th year option, so he'll be an unrestricted free agent this offseason. It looks like the Wizards don't want him.

I think he's useful as a backup center, but he'll never be a starter unless he can pack on about 20 pounds of muscle. His flopping technique is nice, but it's not a foundation for a stout defense. You still have to be able to deny an opponent deep post position and keep from getting pushed under the basket when rebounding. Wagner needs to get stronger.

[nate33]

Mo Swag is having himself another nice season so far:



His scoring rate is the same and his TS% remains the same as last year at 63.1%, but his steals are way up, his assists are up, and his turnovers and fouls are down. The only decline is in rebounding, some of which may be the Westbrook Effect. His on/off remains incredible at +11.1

Since taking over as a starter, he has managed to keep his foul rate down to just 4.4 PF's per 36 minutes. He is averaging 20 points, 6 boards, 3.4 assists and 2.7 steals per 36, with just 2.2 turnovers on a TS% of .603. His on/off as a starter is about -0.8 per 48, but he is affording Lopez the opportunity to overpower weaker back up centers.

I really hope we find a way to keep him. He put on some muscle this offseason and I think he can get stronger still, which will help him on the boards. Offensively, he's already about as good as it gets as a roll man, and his 3-point shot is steadily improving - up to 34%. If he can reach the point that he's a knock down 3-point shooter, he might actually become a starting caliber player, or certainly a gamed-changing backup. He'll probably always have trouble with the biggest centers in the league like Embiid and Jokic.

[NatP4]

Re sign him. Draft his brother. Profit.

[nate33]

One thing about Mo is that he really seems situation-dependent.

In some matchups, he is just terrible - getting overpowered inside and unable to compensate with his finesse game. And in other matchups, he looks like the best player on the floor - mixing and matching his inside/outside game while making solid rotations and switching onto forwards and guards with competence. It's this inconsistency that makes me question if he could ever be a true starter. But he definitely looks like a good platoon guy who should play 28 minutes on some nights but just 12 on others. If we paired him with a low post behemoth like Valanciunas, it could work out. It's sort of working out right now with him paired with Lopez.

[Ruzious]

I'd love to see him get 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season and see if he can put up Thomas Bryant type numbers. It'll take him lowering his foul rate - which may be a key to his future success. Basically playing smarter with more consistency. Agreed that a little more muscle would go a long way. If he can add 10 to 15 pounds of good bulk in the offseason, he's going to be a pleasant surprise for... some team.

[nate33]

I'd love to see him get 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season and see if he can put up Thomas Bryant type numbers.

That Bryant contract is starting to look a little burdensome.

It's too bad Bryant and Wagner have the same general strengths and weaknesses. They're both finesse guys who can pick and pop and pick and roll, but neither can protect the rim. The main difference is that Bryant is the better rebounder and shooter, while Wagner is better at switching defensively and generally avoiding defensive mistakes.

We really only need one of them, and pair them with a guy who is the yin to their yang. I think I prefer Wagner over Bryant, which means Bryant would be the one to move. But we can't trade him due to the injury. So, next year, we will either have to pay both guys to be redundant with each other, or we will have to let Wagner go.

Again, opting in on Wagner's deal would have made so much sense. We keep him at a reasonable price for one more year, and then him and Bryant are both free agents in 2022 and we just keep the one we like most.

[Ruzious]

I'd love to see him get 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season and see if he can put up Thomas Bryant type numbers.

That Bryant contract is starting to look a little burdensome.

It's too bad Bryant and Wagner have the same general strengths and weaknesses. They're both finesse guys who can pick and pop and pick and roll, but neither can protect the rim. The main difference is that Bryant is the better rebounder and shooter, while Wagner is better at switching defensively and generally avoiding defensive mistakes.

We really only need one of them, and pair them with a guy who is the yin to their yang. I think I prefer Wagner over Bryant, which means Bryant would be the one to move. But we can't trade him due to the injury. So, next year, we will either have to pay both guys to be redundant with each other, or we will have to let Wagner go.

Again, opting in on Wagner's deal would have made so much sense. We keep him at a reasonable price for one more year, and then him and Bryant are both free agents in 2022 and we just keep the one we like most.

Yeah, Bryant can't stay healthy, and Wagner can't stay out of foul trouble - but for Wagner that's correctible. If we can keep Wagner, gotta figure that Bryant will be traded - perhaps as part of a package.

[mhd]

I'd love to see him get 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season and see if he can put up Thomas Bryant type numbers.

That Bryant contract is starting to look a little burdensome.

It's too bad Bryant and Wagner have the same general strengths and weaknesses. They're both finesse guys who can pick and pop and pick and roll, but neither can protect the rim. The main difference is that Bryant is the better rebounder and shooter, while Wagner is better at switching defensively and generally avoiding defensive mistakes.

We really only need one of them, and pair them with a guy who is the yin to their yang. I think I prefer Wagner over Bryant, which means Bryant would be the one to move. But we can't trade him due to the injury. So, next year, we will either have to pay both guys to be redundant with each other, or we will have to let Wagner go.

Again, opting in on Wagner's deal would have made so much sense. We keep him at a reasonable price for one more year, and then him and Bryant are both free agents in 2022 and we just keep the one we like most.

I've always liked Mo more than Bryant. Bryant doesn't play team ball. Always shoots it when he gets the ball. Bryant is a just a wretched defender. Luckily, he's expiring on a 8.66 million. Its not hard to move for an equivalent expiring at a better position of need. Some teams might want Bryant on a 1 year expiring as a backup C while moving an equivalent salary. Just need to find out who.

[Ruzious]

I'd love to see him get 30 minutes a game for the rest of the season and see if he can put up Thomas Bryant type numbers.

That Bryant contract is starting to look a little burdensome.

It's too bad Bryant and Wagner have the same general strengths and weaknesses. They're both finesse guys who can pick and pop and pick and roll, but neither can protect the rim. The main difference is that Bryant is the better rebounder and shooter, while Wagner is better at switching defensively and generally avoiding defensive mistakes.

We really only need one of them, and pair them with a guy who is the yin to their yang. I think I prefer Wagner over Bryant, which means Bryant would be the one to move. But we can't trade him due to the injury. So, next year, we will either have to pay both guys to be redundant with each other, or we will have to let Wagner go.

Again, opting in on Wagner's deal would have made so much sense. We keep him at a reasonable price for one more year, and then him and Bryant are both free agents in 2022 and we just keep the one we like most.

I've always liked Mo more than Bryant. Bryant doesn't play team ball. Always shoots it when he gets the ball. Bryant is a just a wretched defender. Luckily, he's expiring on a 8.66 million. Its not hard to move for an equivalent expiring at a better position of need. Some teams might want Bryant on a 1 year expiring as a backup C while moving an equivalent salary. Just need to find out who.

It'd be cool to get Bamba to split the center position with Wagner - maybe with some kind of 3 way trade involving Bryant. Just gotta wait and see - since Wagner isn't sure to return.

[nate33]

I've always liked Mo more than Bryant. Bryant doesn't play team ball. Always shoots it when he gets the ball. Bryant is a just a wretched defender. Luckily, he's expiring on a 8.66 million. Its not hard to move for an equivalent expiring at a better position of need. Some teams might want Bryant on a 1 year expiring as a backup C while moving an equivalent salary. Just need to find out who.

I think I prefer Wagner too, but I don't want to get too negative on Bryant. I disagree that he doesn't play team ball. He averaged 2.6 assists per 36 last year which is pretty good for a young big man. And his much quicker release on his 3-point shoot provided better spacing that Wagner, which helps to explain why our offense was better before his injury.

With Bryant, our ORtg was 112.7. Since he went down, it's 109.8. And Bryant was playing alongside Bad Westbrook, who was one of the worst players I've ever seen.

My concern with Bryant is that I just don't think he has the mobility or instincts to ever be a good defensive center. He has all the energy in the world and tries really hard, but his instincts suck and his feet are encased in concrete.

[NatP4]

Bryant is so much better than Mo Bamba.