NBA Expansion

[LakerLegend]

as someone who lives in vancouver and was an original grizzlies fan i would to see it.... but one of the big issues will be the expansion fee. It will likely be well over 1 billion dollars US... maybe 1.5 billion. The local ownership group that owns the canucks and the arena would have to be involved... and I dont see them forking over that much money for a team.

Who says they have to be the owners, or the only owners?

[MarcusBrody]

Can someone explain the argument for Vegas to me? Isn't it mostly a tourist city?

Its more of a sexy choice imo. The city is not that rich and glitzy outside The Strip plus with covid hitting the casinos and hotels like it did I'm not sure there's enough disposable income to support another pro team. The Raiders are easy- only 8 home games with thousands of Raider fans coming in from Cali and opposing fans flying in as well. I wish an NBA team got to Vegas before the hockey team because now they would have to fill up the arena for both of these teams in the winter months. I'd easily go Vancouver over Vegas.

I do think that beating hockey to market would have been a smart move. For a place with no hockey culture previously, I sit behind people with Golden Knights license plates all the time and my town has a lot of Golden Knights flags flying.

What's attractive:
Las Vegas is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the US and one of the only ones that is large enough to support a team, doesn't have one, and isn't too close to other markets. Nashville is probably the only other fast growing metro with similar characteristics in that sense.

Same with economic growth, which is increasing and rapidly diversifying (though we'll see how the pandemic affects that given how hard it's hit the central tourist area. Hopefully that would be a memory though by the time that they got a team. in the metro, there are areas that are quite poor, but there are also very large middle/upper middle/lower upper class sections in Vegas and (especially) in the huge southern suburb Henderson.

Ease of travel, for teams and especially fans who won't be arriving by private jet. No customs for trips not starting/ending in Toronto. It's pretty central to a lot of existing teams without being in their market.

People seem to spend money on things like tickets/recreation in Vegas in ways that they just don't other places.

No state income tax. I'm sure players would like this compared to Canada's tax rate.

The recent arrival of big time pro sports means no failures yet, so the honeymoon period is still on.

Would I be supporting Vegas over Vancouver if I didn't move to the Vegas Valley? Probably not, as I'm always sympathetic to cities that lost their team through minimal fault of their own. But I do think that Las Vegas would be able to support an NBA team well.

[TheSheriff]

looks like the second city is between Las Vegas and Vancouver https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261102/NBA-Expansion-Unlikely-To-Be-Seriously-Considered-Until-2022

That’s not what that link actually says.

?

Las Vegas and Vancouver are the two cities that could get the second slot.

The Athletic story says “Seattle stands ready, the obvious top candidate for expansion, with Las Vegas and Vancouver leading the list of cities that could be a second site if the NBA opted to expand by two.”

https://theathletic.com/2306367/2021/01/08/nba-expansion-cities-seattle-sonics-kraken/

[SNPA]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

[macNcheese3]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

[Sactowndog]

Seattle, and another West coast city.
Then move New Orleans or Memphis to the East

This isn't gonna happen though. That would mean owners would have to divide up and share profits even more, until the new teams build fan bases of their own to turn a profit

The owners don’t have to split expansion fees with the players and it helps the recover from Covid losses. Many owners are for it. It’s why it’s being discussed.

As far as player dilution you could well argue with the globalization of the game real dilution is minimal.

[Sactowndog]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

I get it’s about money but Vancouver is a damm wealthy city. Where do you think all the wealthy Chinese in Hong Kong went when China took over?

[JordansBulls]

Why not San Diego

[SNPA]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

It has almost nothing to do with that. This is about recouping Covid losses. It’s about money. Straight up. If ownership group in city X is offering more than city Y guess which city wins? I’m sure there’s some wiggle room around the edges (it’s split 30 ways after all) but if there is a real money difference, NBA won’t care about expanding into markets. Owners want the damn cash, they don’t care if it comes from Kansas City or Fresno or Eugene.

[LakerLegend]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

It has almost nothing to do with that. This is about recouping Covid losses. It’s about money. Straight up. If ownership group in city X is offering more than city Y guess which city wins? I’m sure there’s some wiggle room around the edges (it’s split 30 ways after all) but if there is a real money difference, NBA won’t care about expanding into markets. Owners want the damn cash, they don’t care if it comes from Kansas City or Fresno or Eugene.

Unless someone is willing pony up an insane amount like $5-10 billion dollars, no Northern California is not getting a 3rd team. That's pure delusion.

[macNcheese3]

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

It has almost nothing to do with that. This is about recouping Covid losses. It’s about money. Straight up. If ownership group in city X is offering more than city Y guess which city wins? I’m sure there’s some wiggle room around the edges (it’s split 30 ways after all) but if there is a real money difference, NBA won’t care about expanding into markets. Owners want the damn cash, they don’t care if it comes from Kansas City or Fresno or Eugene.

Unless someone is willing pony up an insane amount like $5-10 billion dollars, no Northern California is not getting a 3rd team. That's pure delusion.

Thats what I thought..

[SNPA]

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

It has almost nothing to do with that. This is about recouping Covid losses. It’s about money. Straight up. If ownership group in city X is offering more than city Y guess which city wins? I’m sure there’s some wiggle room around the edges (it’s split 30 ways after all) but if there is a real money difference, NBA won’t care about expanding into markets. Owners want the damn cash, they don’t care if it comes from Kansas City or Fresno or Eugene.

Unless someone is willing pony up an insane amount like $5-10 billion dollars, no Northern California is not getting a 3rd team. That's pure delusion.

You’re just agreeing with me. If someone pays up big then they’ll get a team. Because this is about money, not market.

[Winsome Gerbil]

I'm amused by the idea that decades after trying and failing, they would go right back to the Seattle AND Vancover idea.

Always looked great on paper. Beautiful country up there, move back into the Northwest in force, get the other half of Canada involved (and hope the commies in the Seattle City Council don't try to nationalize your team). But...didn't take last time.

Still, I prefer that 100 times out of 100 over going into Vegas. Sports leagues are greedy morons for wanting to be there. The trouble is writ across the sky, and it WILL come. Today, tomorrow, next decade, you will get exactly the scandal you deserve, while providing a perfect pit stop for each and every one of your players to cheat on their wives and start racking up out of state baby mommas.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

I get it’s about money but Vancouver is a damm wealthy city. Where do you think all the wealthy Chinese in Hong Kong went when China took over?

Singapore

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[Nuntius]

While true, I think the NBA is realizing the geographic imbalance it has right now. They need to try to balance it out and there just aren't as many available markets in the western half of the US and Canada. After Seattle and Vancouver, you basically have Vegas and.....Kansas City?

While technically adding two new franchises, they're also adding two old ones too. These markets both had NBA franchises, I believe both have the remnants of a local fan base. It isn't starting from scratch.

I think its pretty well covered on the west coast. If you added Vegas and Seattle you'd have those two then Golden State, Sacramento, the two LA teams, and Portland.

I think Las Vegas is a definite win due to year round tourism and a pretty large urban population, as well. Plus, players would be happy to go there to live/play in winter.

I'm not talking about just the coast, I'm talking about the conference as a whole.

Look at the divisions (specifically the orange) and try to argue that it makes geographic sense.

It would be interesting to see how these dominoes fall. Seattle and Vancouver would naturally go to the Northwest division (the orange) which would open the way to the divisions making more geographical sense. Minny and Memphis would move to the East (Central for Minny, Southeast for Memphis) and OKC would probably move to the Southwest.

[Cactus Jack]

and hope the commies in the Seattle City Council don't try to nationalize your team). But...didn't take last time.

thanks for the laugh.

[Midw35t]

There is no way in hell Vancouver is the 2nd team if Seattle is the first. No way.

[jimmy keys]

This will be about money. Don’t rule out Silicon Valley. San Jose is the biggest city in the Bay.

Nah man, California isn't getting another team thats ridiculous. It's about expanding to other markets...

Theoretically speaking California could support another 1 or 2 teams easily. They have the population, the interest in the sport, the $, the players want to be there etc. If ownership groups exist that want to make the investment or relocate I could see it.

Maybe 10 years down the line.

Expansion Teams - Seattle, Vancouver

Relocate - Memphis to San Jose, Minnesota to Vegas, New Orleans to San Diego.

[DoItALL9]

It has almost nothing to do with that. This is about recouping Covid losses. It’s about money. Straight up. If ownership group in city X is offering more than city Y guess which city wins? I’m sure there’s some wiggle room around the edges (it’s split 30 ways after all) but if there is a real money difference, NBA won’t care about expanding into markets. Owners want the damn cash, they don’t care if it comes from Kansas City or Fresno or Eugene.

Unless someone is willing pony up an insane amount like $5-10 billion dollars, no Northern California is not getting a 3rd team. That's pure delusion.

You’re just agreeing with me. If someone pays up big then they’ll get a team. Because this is about money, not market.

New markets matter long-term... Some owners/governors are already saying expansion fees are just a loan. Eventually they lose money. Opening up new markets could help to offset that argument.

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[Klomp]

I'm not talking about just the coast, I'm talking about the conference as a whole.

Look at the divisions (specifically the orange) and try to argue that it makes geographic sense.

It would be interesting to see how these dominoes fall. Seattle and Vancouver would naturally go to the Northwest division (the orange) which would open the way to the divisions making more geographical sense. Minny and Memphis would move to the East (Central for Minny, Southeast for Memphis) and OKC would probably move to the Southwest.

Only one team would move from West to East (and it would be Minnesota)

Northwest: Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento
Pacific: Golden State, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, Phoenix
Southwest: New Orleans, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio
Midwest: Utah, Denver, Oklahoma City, Memphis

Atlantic: Brooklyn, New York, Boston, Philadelphia
Northeast: Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland, Washington
Southeast: Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Orlando
Central: Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana