A super team has developed in our already competitive division, now what?

[RaptorPride]

Trade Lowry to a team he wants to go to.
Let Pascal and Fred unload the clip and gain some experience being the first/second option on a team.
Tank
Hope we land a star in the draft.
Retool and try to compete again next year.

[Marty_Budda]

I’m not down for tanking at all. We won a Championship without tanking.

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

Short term tanking for this year I’d be okay with. Anything past next year and all you’re doing is just developing a losing culture. Lets say we get a top 5 pick this draft (I’ll use Suggs as an example). Why wouldn’t you want our team developing and getting playoff experience and build a winning mentality? Even if it is as a 5-8 seed.

We wouldn’t be like the magic or the pistons because we’d have a young team to build around and develop
Fvv - 27
Suggs - 19
OG - 24
Siakam - 27
Young FA

I don’t want to watch 3-4 years of losing at a chance of MAYBE hitting big in the draft and being good.

[Kurtz]

I’m not down for tanking at all. We won a Championship without tanking.

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

We could just as easily end up like the Kings or T-Wolves who have been rebuilding for 15 years. There are other ways to win in this league as we have already proven. We have the best front office in the league to make it happen.

I hate tanking too, but with no home games, messed up covid season, Kyle hitting FA, stacked draft, etc...I'm good with making an exception just this once.

[RapsAndJays21]

It's not going to be a decade long tank... I really do feel like the circumstances around the Raps and just some general back luck have really skewed their record. Back in Toronto, you put this exact same team - and we likely make the playoffs. Now - add a top 10 pick and a decent free-agent signing or off-season trade and we can jump right back into the playoffs.

[PhilBlackson]

As everyone and their mama knows...

TRADE LOWRY TO PHI...and Norm wherever, gets picks and rebuild as quickly as possible.

[Indeed]

Brooklyn’s acquisition of the Harden trade will mean we now have to compete against a very dangerous KD/Harden and Kyrie (maybe) all in their prime core for at least two more seasons along with a Philly team that’s clicking and a good young team in Boston. This is clearly the most competition we have had in our team history. We are 2-8 and haven’t even faced the cream of the crop on the NBA yet. It seems like at best we are cemented as a non HCA team if things go best case scenario for us we would be lucky to steal a couple games in the first round. Then we go into the off season with a bad pick outside the lottery, and a bunch of cap space with a very weak free agency class.

This is an incredibly good draft possibly the best in years, I am trying to understand the rationale of ‘competing’, it’s not like 2013-2014 when we had very little success and wanted to change the culture so it made perfect sense to not tank after the bad start. Right now we’ve reached the top, and know it takes superstar talent to win it all. We can’t do that through free agency, we are relying on trades and the draft. Problem with trades is we have to pretty much gut our roster to acquire one or provide tons of draft compensation which is something I assume Masai doesn’t want to do. So what now?

How certain you are that we will end up with a superstar even with a 1st overall pick?
How certain you are that it will be enough to have this one superstar?
How certain you are that Boston and Philadephia who built from the draft are better than Miami and Brooklyn who built from the trades?

I think we win our championship through trades, should we first look into trading our expiring for something first?
I think the rationale of "competing" is to develop the mental side of our players, where some potential superstar lacked that and never became superstar.

[C_Money]

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

We could just as easily end up like the Kings or T-Wolves who have been rebuilding for 15 years. There are other ways to win in this league as we have already proven. We have the best front office in the league to make it happen.

I hate tanking too, but with no home games, messed up covid season, Kyle hitting FA, stacked draft, etc...I'm good with making an exception just this once.

Oh yeah for this 1 season it’s fine. But some people are suggesting we go back to the Babcock/Colangelo era and suck for the forseeable future. I think thats a terrible idea.

[KrazyP]

This question was already answered in 2013 when the Raps were in exactly the same position they are in now. Back then the Heat were a super team and Tank Nation was in panac mode wanting to tank for Andrew Wiggins.

The answer then was the same as it is now. Ignore what everybody else is doing, draft and develop young talent, build good chemistry/winning culture, make logical decisions and see where things stand 3 years from now.

Kyle Lowry will likely be traded for a young asset but this team will continue to try and win....fans expecting an all out tank will be dissappointed.

[Steelo Green]

This question was already answered in 2013 when the Raps were in exactly the same position they are in now. Back then the Heat were a super team and Tank Nation was in panac mode wanting to tank for Andrew Wiggins.

The answer then was the same as it is now. Ignore what everybody else is doing, draft and develop young talent, build good chemistry/winning culture, make logical decisions and see where things stand 3 years from now.

Kyle Lowry will likely be traded for a young asset but this team will continue to try and win....fans expecting an all out tank will be dissappointed.

Winning culture is overrated.

If not for Kawhi, 6/7 seasons were basically the Atlanta Hawks from 07-17.

[MavCarter]

I just want yall to take note of the posters who are touting our FO's abilities right now and talking about how other tanks failed because of bad management. The draft is such a crapshoot and so much is left up to luck that this will probably turn into a 4-5 year rebuild with *some* failed prospects. There's a good possibility we don't end up with a transcending superstar at the end of it and that wont be masai/the front offices fault but these same toxic posters will turn on him just as fast as they've turned on nurse. With that being said i don't see an alternative route and MU should start pivoting and looking at trades for lowry. Try to collect as many picks as you can to shift the odds in your favor with more attempts

[rocky_da_best]

Before today I was hesitant about the tank but after today, it's clear we have no business trying to compete. We're at best case a #4/5 in the east and first round fodder. Covid, not playing at home, poor start,etc. we need to trade Lowry and Powell for picks, sit guys and tank.

[planetmars]

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

15th pick in the draft can be pretty good.. that's where Kawhi and Giannis were drafted.

And for every Giannis and Kawhi there are 95% of the NBAs finals MVPs who are lottery picks.

NBA finals MVP? That's such a dumb trophy. It's at most a 7 game sample and usually less. Also how many of those picks were drafted by their team since the new CBA was developed (the one with max 5 year contracts so 2011)?

2020 Lebron - nope
2019 Kawhi - nope
2018 Durant - nope
2017 Durant - nope
2016 James - nope
2015 Iggy - nope
2014 Leonard - yup
2013 James - nope
2012 James - nope
2011 Dirk - yup

2 out 10.. that's a 20% success rate. Pretty crappy odds. And the Dirk one doesn't technically count since the CBA came in during the 2011-2012 season.. so really 1 out of 9.

I'll take Tolzman's pick at 15 and enjoy a bit of the playoffs as well.

[Ado05]

This doesnt change anything for the Raptors lol.

[Bruin]

15th pick in the draft can be pretty good.. that's where Kawhi and Giannis were drafted.

And for every Giannis and Kawhi there are 95% of the NBAs finals MVPs who are lottery picks.

NBA finals MVP? That's such a dumb trophy. It's at most a 7 game sample and usually less. Also how many of those picks were drafted by their team since the new CBA was developed (the one with max 5 year contracts so 2011)?

2020 Lebron - nope
2019 Kawhi - nope
2018 Durant - nope
2017 Durant - nope
2016 James - nope
2015 Iggy - nope
2014 Leonard - yup
2013 James - nope
2012 James - nope
2011 Dirk - yup

2 out 10.. that's a 20% success rate. Pretty crappy odds. And the Dirk one doesn't technically count since the CBA came in during the 2011-2012 season.. so really 1 out of 9.

I'll take Tolzman's pick at 15 and enjoy a bit of the playoffs as well.

Idk how you can call Finals MVP trophy the dumbest trophy. It’s the most valuable trophy a player could get. I guarantee if Giannis could he’d trade an MVP award for a Finals MVP

[Indeed]

I’m not down for tanking at all. We won a Championship without tanking.

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

we won a championship by trading away 4 lottery talents, 2 late first round talents and a couple 2nd round picks

we no longer have those assets on our team - we need more assets

jv - lottery pick
terrence - lottery pick
poeltl - lottery pick
demar - lottery pick

1 first rounder in the terrence ibaka traded
1 2nd rounder in the gasol trade
delon write - late 1st round pick

dumped carroll with
1st and 2nd rounder

You can't claim trading lottery talents. Most of the players playing in the league are 1st round or even lottery pick anyway, so there is no point. And what happen like Ibaka, who was under performing, and it was more our coaches make his value much higher.

Meaning, we can turn players into assets, as long as we can help the player to perform.

[planetmars]

So what do you want then? 8 seed and getting swept by the Nets in the 1st round? Cause that’s there we’d be headed if we don’t tank

15th pick in the draft can be pretty good.. that's where Kawhi and Giannis were drafted.

2 exceptions dont make that the rule. If we wanna bank on eventually striking gold with a mid-late 1st rounder, we’d be in treadmill mode for the foreseeable future.

Who said it was a rule? How many of the teams drafting at 15 had Tolzman as a scout? It's okay to want to be in the playoffs.

If you have a lousy front office then yes a treadmill sucks... but we have a pretty good one. We don't have Bryan Colangelo running this team anymore.

[Steelo Green]

15th pick in the draft can be pretty good.. that's where Kawhi and Giannis were drafted.

And for every Giannis and Kawhi there are 95% of the NBAs finals MVPs who are lottery picks.

NBA finals MVP? That's such a dumb trophy. It's at most a 7 game sample and usually less. Also how many of those picks were drafted by their team since the new CBA was developed (the one with max 5 year contracts so 2011)?

2020 Lebron - nope
2019 Kawhi - nope
2018 Durant - nope
2017 Durant - nope
2016 James - nope
2015 Iggy - nope
2014 Leonard - yup
2013 James - nope
2012 James - nope
2011 Dirk - yup

2 out 10.. that's a 20% success rate. Pretty crappy odds. And the Dirk one doesn't technically count since the CBA came in during the 2011-2012 season.. so really 1 out of 9.

I'll take Tolzman's pick at 15 and enjoy a bit of the playoffs as well.

What on earth kind of selective bias is that?

"How many finals MVPs were drafted by the team that won"

The Finals MVP has basically always been won by a lottery pick. Forget Finals MVP if you want, the NBA title has basically always been led by a lottery pick.

Who can control what happens with trades and all that?

The fact is, lottery picks, are the ones that lead you to titles. Kawhi is the only non lottery pick ever to lead a team to a title. Why does it matter if he stayed with the team or not? That's uncontrollable.

How about Duncan or Magic or MJ or Bird or Kobe who all stayed with their teams?

Lottery picks lead you to titles. By your logic we should hope we can become LA because they have an unfair advantage in getting stars, also to think Lebron went back to Cleveland because that wasn't his team.

This place has become so dishonest with its posting, its unbelievable.

[tecumseh18]

We could just as easily end up like the Kings or T-Wolves who have been rebuilding for 15 years. There are other ways to win in this league as we have already proven. We have the best front office in the league to make it happen.

I hate tanking too, but with no home games, messed up covid season, Kyle hitting FA, stacked draft, etc...I'm good with making an exception just this once.

Oh yeah for this 1 season it’s fine. But some people are suggesting we go back to the Babcock/Colangelo era and suck for the forseeable future. I think thats a terrible idea.

Having lived through that era (check my start date), I can safely say that this team won't be that bad - unintentionally. Fred, Pascal, OG, Flynn, Boucher and maybe even TD are much promising than that team ever was. The key is to limit minutes, and see what W2 (Watson and Watanabe) can develop into. Can Stanley ever learn to shoot - let's find out.

[Badonkadonk]

It honestly doesn't change anything, because the same teams that were favoured to come out of the East before today are still the same ones (Nets, Sixers, Bucks... maybe Celtics).

The Raps will soft-tank this year, maybe next, and be opportunistic while developing their talent, as they have always done under this FO.

[Son Goku 25]

I haven't felt more at ease until this year. No pressure, I dont get mad if refs screw us like we know the script.

Team needs to get back to Toronto and play for something bigger. This is not the year, especially with the current state of the team and world in general, im sensing another bubble playoff.

Yall will feel much better thinking like this. We won it all, have great pieces to work with and flexibility plus a potential top pick and a great front office.

We're good