Is KAT an empty stats player?

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

Is KAT an empty stars player?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:51 am

Yes, empty stats
124
56%
No, just plays in bad organisation/system
98
44%
 
Total votes: 222

picko
Veteran
Posts: 2,591
And1: 3,699
Joined: May 17, 2018

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#41 » by picko » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:20 am

At some point he will demand a trade, play in a better system / team and suddenly everyone will think he's amazing. Just like Davis.
User avatar
Leslie Forman
RealGM
Posts: 10,119
And1: 6,304
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#42 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:36 am

I would not say he's the problem.

He does not, however, appear to be the solution.
jpengland
General Manager
Posts: 7,615
And1: 6,944
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
   

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#43 » by jpengland » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:39 am

Bigs that can't play defense aren't taking you far.

The fundamental need for a C is to protect that paint. You can get scoring from anywhere else on the floor.
Midw35t
Senior
Posts: 627
And1: 564
Joined: Jan 28, 2017
       

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#44 » by Midw35t » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:17 am

The problem is not truly building around KAT. Minnesota is piecing BS around him. He is not great on defense, so why is MN putting 6-4 to 6-6 guys at the 2-4 positions who are not great defenders, nor can they shoot. If you watched the games, Towns has no chance to anchor the paint because our guard/wing defense can't keep anyone out of it. Ever. And he never has any other big man for help side D.

It is a botched FO job. First, Saunders needs to go. Then they need to do whatever they can to get someone that is an actual 3 that can make a dang shot, and get an actual defensive 4 or decently mobile 5 next to him. KAT is the only reliable scoring threat on the team, and also the only good rebounder. The FO is royally screwing him.

Rubio, Beasley, and Juancho are taking up near 40 mil in cap space. How stupid is that?
Spanish_Laker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,672
And1: 2,010
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
   

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#45 » by Spanish_Laker » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:21 am

Bad defensive player, he could be a great player in a better franchise and with a better roster.
Banned after 15 years in this forum for no reason. Farewell RealGM users
User avatar
Phreak50
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,928
And1: 10,969
Joined: Feb 01, 2014

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#46 » by Phreak50 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:39 am

KAT is so skilled. I'd love to see him with a good coach and intelligent front office to get a real team around him.

He still takes way too many threes but again, he needs the right situation imo.

I'd love him in a team with some of the Spurs young guards.
TheBallsDeeper
Starter
Posts: 2,040
And1: 2,135
Joined: Nov 20, 2017
       

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#47 » by TheBallsDeeper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:48 am

Is this still a questions? Anybody outside of the wolves have known this for the past four years.

Big stats with no defence never wins anything.
User avatar
Optms
RealGM
Posts: 23,729
And1: 20,129
Joined: Jun 11, 2009
 

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#48 » by Optms » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:55 am

Sofia wrote:Was AD an empty stats player before last season?


AD could at least pull trash to playoff contention. KAT isn't even good enough to lift anyone out of the bottom 5.
Crazy-Canuck
RealGM
Posts: 29,588
And1: 7,507
Joined: Nov 24, 2003

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#49 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:57 am

Kat is a gifted player, its the organization that has let him down.

Dlo and malik can score, but cant defend. Dlo might be the worst defensive player in the league.

Okogie and culver can defend, but are useless on offense.

KAT isnt a good defensive player, but he still might be the best 2 way player on the wolves.
User avatar
Sofia
GOTB: Mean Girls
Posts: 30,422
And1: 34,259
Joined: Aug 03, 2008

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#50 » by Sofia » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:57 am

Optms wrote:
Sofia wrote:Was AD an empty stats player before last season?


AD could at least pull trash to playoff contention. KAT isn't even good enough to lift anyone out of the bottom 5.

AD had a better team with him tho.
lottery is rigged militia
President of the Pharmcat Fanclub
President of the GreatWhiteStiff Fanclub
Free OKCFanSinceSGA
Reddyplayerone = my RealGM bae
Richard Miller
Veteran
Posts: 2,934
And1: 2,982
Joined: Jan 24, 2011

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#51 » by Richard Miller » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:06 am

Optms wrote:
Sofia wrote:Was AD an empty stats player before last season?


AD could at least pull trash to playoff contention.


Yea, twice in seven seasons. KAT's team did it once. Not exactly a huge difference.
User avatar
Optms
RealGM
Posts: 23,729
And1: 20,129
Joined: Jun 11, 2009
 

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#52 » by Optms » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:10 am

Richard Miller wrote:
Optms wrote:
Sofia wrote:Was AD an empty stats player before last season?


AD could at least pull trash to playoff contention.


Yea, twice in seven seasons. KAT's team did it once. Not exactly a huge difference.


Correction: Jimmy Butler did. And he called him out as a loser on the way out. Hasn't been to the playoffs since. :noway:
Whole Truth
Head Coach
Posts: 7,457
And1: 3,842
Joined: Mar 19, 2018

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#53 » by Whole Truth » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:20 am

jpengland wrote:Bigs that can't play defense aren't taking you far.

The fundamental need for a C is to protect that paint. You can get scoring from anywhere else on the floor.


Memphis set a record tonight with 80 paint points, down 3 starters. They were 8-24 from 3, on a poor shooting night overall.

Memphis starting backcourt Tyus & Dillon shot 8-28 with 4 TO's for 18 pts. Outplayed by Beasley & DLo, who shot 21-44 for 53 pts. Their backcourt was + 35 pts on a 16 FGA difference but it's Kat's supporting cast ... +/-

Jonas who was matched up against kat, put up 24 & 16 with (8) offensive boards (reason why Kat had 6 boards with Jonas on court), giving Memphis a big edge in second chance points.

Minnesota got to the line 24 times to Memphis 13, + 10 on the stripe.

Memphis starting backcourt shoot better than 30%, this game would have been a blow out.
RoundMoundOfReb
Senior
Posts: 502
And1: 589
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
       

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#54 » by RoundMoundOfReb » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:29 am

He isn't an empty stats player but he is perhaps a flawed player. He is a center who is great on offense and bad on defense. To win a lot with a player like that one of two things needs to be true. He has to be stupid good on offence. Like to the point you can run your offense through him every time down (see Nikola Jokic). Or, he has to be paired with personnel that's great on defense; preferably another big, who is a dominant and versatile defender (ie can defend the paint and guard smallball4s/wings like an Anthony Davis or Draymond Green).

I don't think he is stupid good on offence and finding a Davis/Green is not exactly easy -- and a player like that is certainly not on this timberwolves roster.
Richard Miller
Veteran
Posts: 2,934
And1: 2,982
Joined: Jan 24, 2011

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#55 » by Richard Miller » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:35 am

Optms wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
Optms wrote:
AD could at least pull trash to playoff contention.


Yea, twice in seven seasons. KAT's team did it once. Not exactly a huge difference.


Correction: Jimmy Butler did. And he called him out as a loser on the way out. Hasn't been to the playoffs since. :noway:


Try again. Jimmy Butler played 59 games in that season, KAT played 82.
RufusTrufus
Ballboy
Posts: 33
And1: 13
Joined: Mar 05, 2015

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#56 » by RufusTrufus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:55 am

A byproduct of the famous TWolves superstar appeasement. They never go cheap based on flaws, a glass half full franchise. IMO there are a couple dozen players that have either no place in the league or should be a couple tiers below their perceived value but receive protection as "investment value".

Guys like Zach Lavine could have three good years and nobody would look at 5 or more seriously terrible seasons. In the case of players like Love or even KAT you need to determine how redundant is their forte. KAT has gravity and can score but those are also guard skills nowadays. Coming back to the flaws, getting a wombo combo with KLove or KAT is difficult as hell. Love wasn't quick enough to work with Pek (who was also uninterested into being meaner with his size but probably was born a bit too late to exploit that) and KAT had no success with any PF to this date. You know what, most PFs shape their game around a C that plays an utility game, opposite to KAT.

IMO giving a chance to guys like Amare is just plain wrong. You are a solid "passable" at all parts of your role or you don't get to play. Basically you can mulligan "poor man Taj Gibsons" until your piece gets in but the worst you can do is to play heterodox dudes until they work. A PG that cannot defend a chair, you might work with that in this environment. A C should be proficient enough at C things and maybe stats are getting in the middle. KAT as a Sheed played at C is a lot better than KAT as a Chris Webber played at C but he still needs to play more centerish. And the Wolves should not try to reinvent the game with "boom or bust" tactics. Those only work from time to time with "win more" rosters.
User avatar
PharmD
Head Coach
Posts: 6,964
And1: 5,559
Joined: Aug 21, 2015
 

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#57 » by PharmD » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 pm

RufusTrufus wrote: Love wasn't quick enough to work with Pek (

Yeah they only had a net rating of +10.4 together in 1316 minutes. Where do you guys get your narratives?
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#58 » by Merc_Porto » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:16 pm

He's on AD level in terms of talent, you'll see... Never going to be a first option but he would be a hell of a 2nd option.

Just a matter of time until he gets out of Minnesota (unfortunely i guess)
Lockdown504090
RealGM
Posts: 11,860
And1: 12,727
Joined: Nov 24, 2015
         

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#59 » by Lockdown504090 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:05 pm

Midw35t wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
sikma42 wrote:He gets his stats a lot of the way Kevin Love and KG got there stats. They come within the flow of the offense but they are not players that can go and get you buckets or control games on offense. Categorize that however you want.

He either needs to get better on the block or on the perimeter. If he could get that iso post ability he could be as good as dirk one day.


I cannot decide if this is complete satire or not. The guy is an instant bucket from everywhere on the floor, and has been forever now.

35 percent from the field in the clutch last year.Embiid was at 55 and didn’t have a better half court offensive team that towns. Obviously teams can in fact stop him when it actually matters.
Lockdown504090
RealGM
Posts: 11,860
And1: 12,727
Joined: Nov 24, 2015
         

Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#60 » by Lockdown504090 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:07 pm

Richard Miller wrote:
Optms wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
Yea, twice in seven seasons. KAT's team did it once. Not exactly a huge difference.


Correction: Jimmy Butler did. And he called him out as a loser on the way out. Hasn't been to the playoffs since. :noway:


Try again. Jimmy Butler played 59 games in that season, KAT played 82.
they lost almost every game butler didn’t play in at the end and he had to come back with a broken hand to drag them to the playoffs. Kat the. Proceeded to get like 8 ppg against the small ball rockets team.

Return to The General Board