Political Roundtable Part XXIX

[Ruzious]

Anyone feel sick to their stomachs that every state now has to have their National Guard protecting their state capital buildings "in preparation for what the FBI identified as massive armed protests planned in every state capital in the country leading up to Inauguration Day"? https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/13/states-begin-activating-national-guard-after-fbi-warns-of-armed-protests-at-capitols/

It's just amazing the radical right is comparing these to the Black Lives Matters rallies. There was a very good PEACEFUL reason for the BLM rallies. Anyone with a brain understands that. These attacks aren't even rallies or protests - these are heavily armed terrorists with absolutely no justifiable purpose.

And right wing nuts who complain about being taxed - all these extra expenses for protection have to be paid for by taxpayers at some point.

[Zonkerbl]

The more violent they are, the more persuasively they make their point - that Trump is a criminal who must be banned from holding office ever again, and that we need to aggressively prosecute and suppress right wing terrorism in this country.

I support the impeachment efforts but if all you are going to accomplish is banning Trump from holding public office you can do that through the 14th amendment much more quickly.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/removing-trump-through-impeachment-or-25th-amendment-warranted-better-ncna1253991

[Zonkerbl]

Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks, and Paul Gosar. Seditious traitors who incited insurrection. They should all be prosecuted and barred from office for the rest of their lives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/ali-alexander-capitol-biggs-gosar/

Massive, aggressive, relentless counter strike.

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

Great rant tonight by Rick Wilson during the last ten minutes of Joy Reid.
Language warning as if this group freakin cares. Lol.

More serious and truly disturbing was Wilson saying there are _many_ GOP Congress critters
who now fear for the safety of their families if they cross Golfy McBonespurs.
However late their second thoughts are, I’m glad to hear it but deeply disturbed
if this is a real threat. And when police are infiltrated by white supremacist
sympathizers, this $h!t just got way more real.

[queridiculo]

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Newsmax and OAN, I can't even.

The fact that these networks exist blows my mind.

[Ruzious]

Donald & Rudy really are the modern-day version of Laurel & Hardy as written by Stephen King; actually by King's son - Joe Hill - who likes writing stories from the point of view of villains. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html

[Wizardspride]

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[Ruzious]

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She certainly appears to be a terrorist and should not be allowed back in the Capitol or any of the House Office Buildings - unless she clears herself somehow.

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[Ruzious]

James Comey - smart guy, lots of integrity, good hair... but damn... he's made some unfortunate decisions over the years. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comey-biden-should-consider-pardoning-trump/ar-BB1cKSnN?li=BBnb7Kz

[bsilver]

James Comey - smart guy, lots of integrity, good hair... but damn... he's made some unfortunate decisions over the years. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comey-biden-should-consider-pardoning-trump/ar-BB1cKSnN?li=BBnb7Kz

I’d love to see Trump in jail. But if Trump made a deal where he admits that there was no voter fraud, and that it was a fair election, then a pardon would be best for the country.

But the pardon shouldn’t take him off the hook for his NY State financial crimes.

[Ruzious]

James Comey - smart guy, lots of integrity, good hair... but damn... he's made some unfortunate decisions over the years. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comey-biden-should-consider-pardoning-trump/ar-BB1cKSnN?li=BBnb7Kz

I’d love to see Trump in jail. But if Trump made a deal where he admits that there was no voter fraud, and that it was a fair election, then a pardon would be best for the country.

But the pardon shouldn’t take him off the hook for his NY State financial crimes.

If he intentionally delayed the MD National Guard and other defenses from getting to The Capitol - along with all his other despicable conducts - he absolutely should go to jail - for the good of the country. Otherwise, the message - especially to young people - is so wrong and - for want of a real word that covers it - pussified. Young folks, old folks, in between folks need to understand - this stuff doesn't happen in civilized society - not at the Capitol Building of the US. It could have been much worse - they actually planned on kidnapping the VP and a key US Senator. That can't come close to happening here - ever. And we can't just do nothing about it. Otherwise, we are dramatically increasing the chances it happens again.

[payitforward]

Early in Trump's Presidency I referred to him as "a demagogue" & pointed out that all demagogues suffer the same fate in the end -- to have their bodies dragged through the street. Not always literally (tho often enough -- Mussolini for example) but in one or another sense. That's coming to pass for Donald Trump: all the things he cannot stand are happening to him or going to happen to him.

As to the current insurrectionist uprisings, they are serious to be sure -- but, they should be understood as largely reactive rather than active. Again, that's still serious -- no less serious than anything else when you have to deal with them, & that is definitely how they should be dealt with: firmly & seriously.

What I mean by calling these phenomena "reactive" is as follows:

1. There has always been an anti-democratic brain-dead right wing in this country. It's no bigger or more deeply dangerous today than it was in the 1930s, when the explicitly pro-Fascist, pro-Hitler Father Coughlin drew huge audiences for his weekly radio broadcasts and, at the same time, the explicitly pro-Hitler organization of German-American citizens called the German American Bund also flourished.

2. The current insurrectionist flurry is a reaction to defeat. In a way it's like the period around 1920 after Germany was defeated in WWI & what was called "The Freikorps" engaged in violent unrest. Yes, the Nazis came to power a dozen years later, but in the interim a huge inflation had pauperized the entire German middle class. The Freikorps, & even the early iteration of the Nazi Party, were altogether ineffective.

There is no social basis whatever for radical change in this country, & there will be none. It's rather the opposite -- even Trump becoming President reflects the fact: the Republican Party had marginalized itself & knew it!

What do I mean? How many here are familiar with "The Growth & Opportunity Project" -- the The Republican National Committee's deep & thorough self-analysis done in 2013, led by Rance Priebus. Here's the report: https://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/RNCreport03182013.pdf

Page down to p.75 for a quick hit of the report's recommendations -- none of which was followed. Instead, the party undertook a last ditch effort to bolster its recently increasing right-wing stance by demagoguery: recruiting Donald Trump to run.

Is there trouble ahead? You bet! Can it win anything? Anything at all? No, it can't, & it won't.

There will be pain from its failure, but fail it will. It already has.

[dckingsfan]

Early in Trump's Presidency I referred to him as "a demagogue" & pointed out that all demagogues suffer the same fate in the end -- to have their bodies dragged through the street. Not always literally (tho often enough -- Mussolini for example) but in one or another sense. That's coming to pass for Donald Trump: all the things he cannot stand are happening to him or going to happen to him.

As to the current insurrectionist uprisings, they are serious to be sure -- but, they should be understood as largely reactive rather than active. Again, that's still serious -- no less serious than anything else when you have to deal with them, & that is definitely how they should be dealt with: firmly & seriously.

What I mean by calling these phenomena "reactive" is as follows:

1. There has always been an anti-democratic brain-dead right wing in this country. It's no bigger or more deeply dangerous today than it was in the 1930s, when the explicitly pro-Fascist, pro-Hitler Father Coughlin drew huge audiences for his weekly radio broadcasts and, at the same time, the explicitly pro-Hitler organization of German-American citizens called the German American Bund also flourished.

2. The current insurrectionist flurry is a reaction to defeat. In a way it's like the period around 1920 after Germany was defeated in WWI & what was called "The Freikorps" engaged in violent unrest. Yes, the Nazis came to power a dozen years later, but in the interim a huge inflation had pauperized the entire German middle class. The Freikorps, & even the early iteration of the Nazi Party, were altogether ineffective.

There is no social basis whatever for radical change in this country, & there will be none. It's rather the opposite -- even Trump becoming President reflects the fact: the Republican Party had marginalized itself & knew it!

What do I mean? How many here are familiar with "The Growth & Opportunity Project" -- the The Republican National Committee's deep & thorough self-analysis done in 2013, led by Rance Priebus. Here's the report: https://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/RNCreport03182013.pdf

Page down to p.75 for a quick hit of the report's recommendations -- none of which was followed. Instead, the party undertook a last ditch effort to bolster its recently increasing right-wing stance by demagoguery: recruiting Donald Trump to run.

Is there trouble ahead? You bet! Can it win anything? Anything at all? No, it can't, & it won't.

There will be pain from its failure, but fail it will. It already has.

Long read, so that will take time but only on page 6 and

2. The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself. We have become expert in how to provide ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us on every issue.

[doclinkin]

The place Repugnicans have fallen short is in not courting the vote of Spanish speaking Americans. Many spanish speaking americans come from cultures that are Family oriented, believe in bootstrapping yourself up from hard work, are socially conservative, etc. The problem is they have only been able to double down on White Supremacy to hold on to their power, as this seems to be their most reliable voting bloc. If they were clever and more diabolical they'd understand they can tap into racism within the spanish speaking community, which in some cultures is less apologetic than here. The browning of america will not necessarily banish inequality and suspicion between ethnic groups. I do think it is important for progressive causes to reach these communities before Republicans figure it out.

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Reading the summation of the paper forwarded by PIF: well yeah, I'd hope progressives would make a similarly persuasive case and not get caught in warring with each other over disagreements of procedure etc.

[payitforward]

Doc -- "Repugnicans" ! A+ !