Is KAT an empty stats player?

[_qubik]

KAT + Bam will be nice when Pat Riley give Minny 2 G leaguers + some bananas.

A great defensive big with a great passing game and an insane offensive big that can shoot from anywhere

[Richard Miller]

Correction: Jimmy Butler did. And he called him out as a loser on the way out. Hasn't been to the playoffs since.

Try again. Jimmy Butler played 59 games in that season, KAT played 82.

they lost almost every game butler didn’t play in at the end and he had to come back with a broken hand to drag them to the playoffs. Kat the. Proceeded to get like 8 ppg against the small ball rockets team.

I went back to check, they were 8-9 without Butler, not to mention that January through February they were 11-10 with Butler, so for the entire second part of the season they were hovering around .500. But when people remember, it seems as if they were 50-0 with Butler and 0-30 without him.

[UcanUwill]

He had good statistical game yesterday, but I wasnt wowed, call me old fanboy but I thought Valanciunas had far more impact. Valanciunas created extra points from numerious offensive rebounds, points and possessions that wouldnt be there if not for him, KAt had his stats but burned possessions and I never felt that KAT is cooking or taking over the game. KAT and Vuc right now I think might not be empty stats completely, but definitely not as good as their stats.

[johanliebert]

Kat is who Jimmy Butler was talking about. Many thought he was singling out wiggins but wiggins confirmed they had no issues a few months ago.

Kat is just a soft player that doesn't care about winning.

[johanliebert]

A byproduct of the famous TWolves superstar appeasement. They never go cheap based on flaws, a glass half full franchise. IMO there are a couple dozen players that have either no place in the league or should be a couple tiers below their perceived value but receive protection as "investment value".

Guys like Zach Lavine could have three good years and nobody would look at 5 or more seriously terrible seasons. In the case of players like Love or even KAT you need to determine how redundant is their forte. KAT has gravity and can score but those are also guard skills nowadays. Coming back to the flaws, getting a wombo combo with KLove or KAT is difficult as hell. Love wasn't quick enough to work with Pek (who was also uninterested into being meaner with his size but probably was born a bit too late to exploit that) and KAT had no success with any PF to this date. You know what, most PFs shape their game around a C that plays an utility game, opposite to KAT.

IMO giving a chance to guys like Amare is just plain wrong. You are a solid "passable" at all parts of your role or you don't get to play. Basically you can mulligan "poor man Taj Gibsons" until your piece gets in but the worst you can do is to play heterodox dudes until they work. A PG that cannot defend a chair, you might work with that in this environment. A C should be proficient enough at C things and maybe stats are getting in the middle. KAT as a Sheed played at C is a lot better than KAT as a Chris Webber played at C but he still needs to play more centerish. And the Wolves should not try to reinvent the game with "boom or bust" tactics. Those only work from time to time with "win more" rosters.

you typed a bunch of nothing lol. It doesn't matter where or who KAT plays with he's just not a professional nor cares to win. He checked out when they maxed him.

the zach lavine examlple is nonsense.

[Wolf of Ball St]

He's just in a poor situation. Life long wolves fan and it's sad to see the team not capitalize on the talent on the court. The team is competitive when he's on the floor and really rough to watch when he doesn't play.

I agree with some others here, he's of the AD mold -- right now is best suited as no. 2 option, and can be a no. 1, but needs a legit vet to groom him like LeBron has done with AD. If only the Wolves could acquire a superstar vet...oh wait *insert Jimmy Butler meme here*

Sadly for us wolves fans, I bet a change of scenery would do him well.

[AbeVigodaLive]

if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT and empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer

All decent veteran players, plus Ricky, Gorgui. In a weaker Western Conference. With a seasoned coach in Adelman and then Flip. KaT is not the problem in MN.

And that 40 - 42 team was one of the greatest underachieving teams in recent NBA history.

- They were a top 10 offensive AND top 10 defensive team until the final week of the season. (Finished #9 and #12). I'm not aware of any other teams rated that high on both sides of the ball to be under .500... EVER.

- That team started the season 0 - 10 in games decided by 4 points or less. Their 4th quarter issues were legendary with both PGs (Rubio + Barea) shooting below 30% or some crazy thing.

- Kevin Love finished 3rd in Win Shares. He was the only one in the top 20 on a losing team.

- The Expected W-L for that team was 48 - 34.

[Tim Kempton]

Yea, twice in seven seasons. KAT's team did it once. Not exactly a huge difference.

Correction: Jimmy Butler did. And he called him out as a loser on the way out. Hasn't been to the playoffs since.

Try again. Jimmy Butler played 59 games in that season, KAT played 82.

Wolves record with Butler that season: 37-22 (on pace for 51-52 wins)
Wolves record without Butler that season: 10-13 (on pace for a 35-47 record, as per usual with KAT)

[AbeVigodaLive]

KAT isnt a good defensive player, but he still might be the best 2 way player on the wolves.

I think you nailed it.

And that's what many/most non-Wolves fans don't realize. Is Towns good on defense? No. But he has three other starters next to him who are worse (Hernangomez, Beasley and Russell)... measurably worse.

Meanwhile recent 1st rd picks Okogie (27% career 3fg... 8 ppg) and Culver (47% career ft... 9 ppg) can't play offense. At all.

Even the most avid Wolves fan acknowledges Towns' faults. But others should look closer to realize just how poor the rest of the team is... which can be documented very easily with stats and tangible evidence.*



* Just like when people were saying the same things about Kevin Love.
* Just like when people were saying the same things about Kevin Garnett.


You don't become the worst organization in the history of the NBA by accident. You have to work at it and do some really crazy ####.

[Midw35t]

if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT and empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer

All decent veteran players, plus Ricky, Gorgui. In a weaker Western Conference. With a seasoned coach in Adelman and then Flip. KaT is not the problem in MN.

And that 40 - 42 team was one of the greatest underachieving teams in recent NBA history.

- They were a top 10 offensive AND top 10 defensive team until the final week of the season. (Finished #9 and #12). I'm not aware of any other teams rated that high on both sides of the ball to be under .500... EVER.

- That team started the season 0 - 10 in games decided by 4 points or less. Their 4th quarter issues were legendary with both PGs (Rubio + Barea) shooting below 30% or some crazy thing.

- Kevin Love finished 3rd in Win Shares. He was the only one in the top 20 on a losing team.

- The Expected W-L for that team was 48 - 34.

It was a fun team to watch. Ricky, Love, and Pekovic had good chemistry, brewer was the glue, Martin just did his thing - iso score or find open spots. Barea would be a spark one night and a nightmare the next two.

We have lacked 3 point shooting for so long, and that is the main issue. Well, behind drafting like crap. Defense has also been an issue most years since we traded KG.

As for the guy posting about last season. The original roster we had KAT played most of the season with. After the complete overhaul, KAT played so few games before being injured, now he has been injured again.

Now there is another GM here who has fallen in love with guards, and a completely green coach. Nobody outside of KAT rebounds in the lineups. There are not many supporting pieces that are good defenders or 3pt/efficient scorers. It is a sh*tshow of organization around KAT.

[_AIJ_]

Arw you kidding me? NO! The roster construction is so flawed. Only 3 players can shoot on the team and only a couple of guys can defend. And their coach is clueless as ****. Give him a better roster and he will be a beast.


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[Johnny Tomala]

Nope. He is fabulous, I hope Celtics trade for him in the future. He is Top 15 player in the NBA.

[Steven1562]

Good player on a bad team. Similar to AD stuck in New Orleans. He would look unstoppable in a PNR with Lebron could you imagine? His defense isn't great but it's not like his team can defend a lick either. Would like to see him with an organization that can surround him with the right talent.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Bigs that can't play defense aren't taking you far.

The fundamental need for a C is to protect that paint. You can get scoring from anywhere else on the floor.

Memphis set a record tonight with 80 paint points, down 3 starters. They were 8-24 from 3, on a poor shooting night overall.

Memphis starting backcourt Tyus & Dillon shot 8-28 with 4 TO's for 18 pts. Outplayed by Beasley & DLo, who shot 21-44 for 53 pts. Their backcourt was + 35 pts on a 16 FGA difference but it's Kat's supporting cast ... +/-

Jonas who was matched up against kat, put up 24 & 16 with (8) offensive boards (reason why Kat had 6 boards with Jonas on court), giving Memphis a big edge in second chance points.

Minnesota got to the line 24 times to Memphis 13, + 10 on the stripe.

Memphis starting backcourt shoot better than 30%, this game would have been a blow out.

Are you looking at stats only or you watched the game? Memphis won because their bench were scoring alot in big momentum swing at start of 4th til end, while Minnesota bench didnt score **** all whole game.

Memphis bench: Grayson Allen 20, Melton 15, Tillman 12.

Minny bench: Rubio 6 (was awful and ruined offensive schemes all the time), Culver 2, Vanderbilt 2, Edwards 2.



I could go on, starters like Okogie and Juancho weren't scoring a lick either.


There were possessions where Kat was out there with 4 non shooters any time Dlo and Beasley rested, and Memphis just played zone and dared them to shoot, triple teaming Kat, or rushing ball holder and forcing the non shooters to shoot.




Anyone who knows basketball and goes out of tonight's game thinking Kat was the problem, is a friggin moron.

[Shaka_Zulu]

He had good statistical game yesterday, but I wasnt wowed, call me old fanboy but I thought Valanciunas had far more impact. Valanciunas created extra points from numerious offensive rebounds, points and possessions that wouldnt be there if not for him, KAt had his stats but burned possessions and I never felt that KAT is cooking or taking over the game. KAT and Vuc right now I think might not be empty stats completely, but definitely not as good as their stats.

Valenciunas is very difficult big to face. He isnt given the credit he deserves.

[Harry Garris]

Anyone answering yes is honestly being kind of ignorant, and clearly does not watch Minnesota play. The roster he is playing on is an absolute dumpster fire.

I voted "no" just because although his stats are pretty empty when KAT isn't playing defense, I've seen him engage and be a good defensive player for stretches. He has it in him. He'd probably be a consistently better defender if he played for a better franchise. So his stats aren't inherently empty, he has the ability to impact winning.

[UcanUwill]

He had good statistical game yesterday, but I wasnt wowed, call me old fanboy but I thought Valanciunas had far more impact. Valanciunas created extra points from numerious offensive rebounds, points and possessions that wouldnt be there if not for him, KAt had his stats but burned possessions and I never felt that KAT is cooking or taking over the game. KAT and Vuc right now I think might not be empty stats completely, but definitely not as good as their stats.

Valenciunas is very difficult big to face. He isnt given the credit he deserves.

Yeah, he is hard to box out, but I heard Minny gave up 80 points in the paint yesterday, thats unacceptable for a team with ''star'' center.

[Lockdown504090]

Try again. Jimmy Butler played 59 games in that season, KAT played 82.

they lost almost every game butler didn’t play in at the end and he had to come back with a broken hand to drag them to the playoffs. Kat the. Proceeded to get like 8 ppg against the small ball rockets team.

I went back to check, they were 8-9 without Butler, not to mention that January through February they were 11-10 with Butler, so for the entire second part of the season they were hovering around .500. But when people remember, it seems as if they were 50-0 with Butler and 0-30 without him.

look at who they played those two months

[NY 567]

All I know is if he goes to a winning team, his volume and advanced stats likely plummet, very much like Kevin Loves did when he was traded to the Cavs

[Domejandro]

they lost almost every game butler didn’t play in at the end and he had to come back with a broken hand to drag them to the playoffs. Kat the. Proceeded to get like 8 ppg against the small ball rockets team.

I went back to check, they were 8-9 without Butler, not to mention that January through February they were 11-10 with Butler, so for the entire second part of the season they were hovering around .500. But when people remember, it seems as if they were 50-0 with Butler and 0-30 without him.

look at who they played those two months

Wow, that is a pretty impressive shifting of the goalposts, especially after such an authoritative statement.