So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[Stanford]

Why wouldn’t trading Ben for Beal make sense for us? It makes tons of sense.

Nets just added Harden without giving up their superstars.

Who plays the point if we make this trade with Simmons?

Literally anyone. Milton, Maxey, Beal if he's here. Anyone.

The same people who are playing point guard now. It ain't Ben.

[Kobblehead]

I am not a fan of Coby White but I'd like to get a version of him that is good

Just look at the trajectory, though. White is way better than Beal and Lavine when they were 19 and 20, respectively. He's a superior talent to both of those guys. He's even becoming less annoying to play with with his passing improvements this year. White would be amazing with Embiid, IMO. Especially in conjunction with Milton and Maxey. And if we decide we don't have magic with him, we trade him. He's cheap and ultra desirable as a young creator on a rookie contract.

Shouldn't we be trading Ben for someone who can be effective within the next two playoffs though?

Ben is not an effective playoff piece, himself, so I'm not worried about a drastic change in our playoff competence by making a deal.

Besides, we'd be theoretically adding a desirable playoff piece in Otto Porter. Strong 3&D starter at F to put next to Danny Green and form really great perimeter defense with spacing on the other end. So if youngsters White and Maxey give us anything right away, that's pure icing.

It would be Milton step-up time, though.

[76ciology]

Ya, I don't think those teams would trade those players for Beal. It wouldn't make any sense.

Us trading Ben for him wouldn't make any sense either.

It would have to be a Maxey, Tybulle, Shake, picks type package, IMO.

Why wouldn’t trading Ben for Beal make sense for us? It makes tons of sense.

Nets just added Harden without giving up their superstars.

Who plays the point if we make this trade with Simmons?

Maxey? Shake?

Pair one of them with Beal and you got a potent offensive backcourt

[76ciology]

So what are the likely offers out there for beal?

[aHealthy3]

Why not?

He’s only 25, going 26 this year. His development is on an uptrend. He’s one of the league’s best scorer.

He can’t carry a team but if you make Ben his “accessory”, then maybe you have a chance.

Beal and Lavine are weak compared to Harden. But if you can pair either one with Ben, maybe you can have something as good as a 5 man unit with Harden.

There’s not much options out there when it comes to available 25-27ppg perimeter scorers who are available.

I say, trade for one of Lavine and Beal with Tobias and assets. Im talking about giving up multiple picks, milton or maxey and Tobias. Almost the same package we offered for Harden but Tobias instead of Ben, and much lesser picks.

Let’s see if it work. If not, then you trade Ben.

If we can get them aside Ben then sure, I'm in. But the implication I've gotten from some is that they want to move Simmons for LaVine, which I think is borderline insanity.

Either way, we have to trade for one of Lavine or Beal.

But IMO we should try trading one of them without giving up Biid and Ben. If not, then let’s get one of them AND PICK(S) for Ben.

Then have the option to use those picks and Tobi for future deals.

I think some of you guys think Ben is a lot more valuable league wide than he actually is. If he was really thought of as some can't miss young stud like he maybe was 2 years ago then James Harden would be a sixer right now. The idea that Washington would give up Beal AND PICKS for Ben is straight up delusional and laughable. The asking price for Beal will be similar to what Harden went for. Maybe Lavine would be closer to a straight up deal but we may still need to even add to Ben to get that done. I think the cat is kinda out of the bag league wide about how limited Ben is and we are seeing that now.

[stormi]

I'm aboard the Beal train actually.

[Lou_23]

I think the clear and obvious message from the fact Ben was on the table for Harden to me is that Daryl understands Ben isn't going to work well enough with Joel.

He may have been voted out of making a major offer, but he clearly sees a scenario where Embiid and an elite perimeter scorer can win a title more likely than Embiid and Ben.

The ONLY reason you put a 25 year old DPOY candidate, 6'10 athletic PG in any deal is because you realize you need an elite perimeter threat on offense, and CANNOT have Simmons on the floor if you want to maximize Joel.

So, will Ben be traded this season? Maybe not. But has Daryl showed his hand on his thoughts on Simmons/Embiid pairing?? Absolutely. It's just a matter of time now before Ben is traded. And my fear is his value will drop so far that the return will be underwhelming at best.

But...if you take him off the floor and give Embiid 4 guys who can shoot...it's a little bit of addition by subtraction if you ask me.

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He was on the table because Harden is a top-5 player in the league

[Mik317]

yall really about to get your hearts broken again and it will be all your fault lol.

Beal isn't walking through that door. Let it go, Elsa

[Stanford]

He was on the table because Harden is a top-5 player in the league

It's unbelievable that people can't figure this out. Half of internet Sixers fans are denying he was even available and the other half are acting like Morey is desperate to get rid of him.

[Lou_23]

He was on the table because Harden is a top-5 player in the league

It's unbelievable that people can't figure this out. Half of internet Sixers fans are denying he was even available and the other half are acting like Morey is desperate to get rid of him.

And Morey loves Harden, probably his favourite player in the league...

[aHealthy3]

I think I'd be willing to do the same package we offered for Harden, for Beal tbh. I know he's not the same level but playing with Embiid could really unlock him. And I don't know how long Ben will be thought of the way he is now. Perhaps a 3 teamer since he doesn't fit with RW, or Wizards could look to ship RW as well.

[DCasey91]

We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

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After all this time pandering to every need under the sun for Ben it hasn’t work out at all. I believe Morey was 100% keen on the deal but management is once again has always been enamored by a hugely flawed player.

He needs to recognize the fact the way he plays hurts the team especially in the playoffs.

The ideal scenario for Ben is a literal fantasy 2k sim to get all the players that fit with him “perfectly.”
And once again your not winning with Ben as your 2nd go to option

Elite 3rd best player sure. But that is his value right now

Teams certainly don’t build around their 3rd best that’s for sure.

I’d rather cater to the actual player that’s a legit MVP/DPOY canidtate every year in his prime as long as he’s healthy which he most certainly is.

Fwiw if I was Thybulle I’d keep my head down and work my ass off to be a legit NBA rotation player before saying anything. But that’s just me I guess

Once side of the coin has ran its race

The other side was always the more valuable one since the beginning.

I dont think management was the reason.

I just think that, unlike Nets, Nets can really make a quantum leap from their position (already have two superstars) after going all in for Harden. Unlike us.

Nets have better risk vs reward ratio than us doing a deal that would require us to give like 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps.

Rox got Dipo, Exum and 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps. I say they’re asking just or very near to as many picks.

Imagine us trading Ben, Thybulle and 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps. Short term, you don’t make that quantum leap Nets did. Long term, you risk being a mediocre team while Biid is post his peak.

You’re looking at Biid at age 31 with no draft picks and likely 1-2 borderline stars. That’s like the Orlando Magic right now with Vuc, Fournier and Fultz.

The more I think of Ben, I think he’s more of a third star. This brought me peace and acceptance. Second stars can still carry a team on his shoulder like AD or PG or Kyrie. Not Ben. Ben is more like an accessory, he makes Biid or your second star great.

I do think we need to trade for Beal or Lavine with Tobias and assets. But if not, you better hope one of Seth, Milton, Maxey or Tobi becomes a 2nd star. Because once Biid is slowed down by elite defense or he gets cold, you’re in deep sh*t.

That’s fairly put if we’re being realistic I agree Simmons as the 3rd star.

The downside though is because of the pairing together you 100% need a 2nd/1st option star that’s of a very particular type. We both know what the type of player is (Combo wing/guard 3lvl scorer at a high volume).

I just think we’re very hemmed in at getting that because they have probably the highest value in the comp.

You’re very astute with your comments here so kudos. If we go down the organic route Milton is for sure the best chance down the line. Mentioned it earlier


But he’s the right age (24) next year will be his 4th season. His timelines and playstyle matches up perfectly with Embiid & Simmons

But is his ceiling more than say someone like Lavine?

For the wizards I can’t see them trading Beal without Ben and vice versa.

For Lavine though they’re maybe a realistic chance at getting him without trading away Ben. Then the question becomes is Lavine better than Milton projects to be?
And Lavine def matches up timeline wise/playstyle

Because asking Harris to be the 2nd banana and playing hot potato with the others down the stretch we’re definitely in deeeeep sh****t lol.

[NBA Moses]

I think some of you guys think Ben is a lot more valuable league wide than he actually is. If he was really thought of as some can't miss young stud like he maybe was 2 years ago then James Harden would be a sixer right now. The idea that Washington would give up Beal AND PICKS for Ben is straight up delusional and laughable. The asking price for Beal will be similar to what Harden went for. Maybe Lavine would be closer to a straight up deal but we may still need to even add to Ben to get that done. I think the cat is kinda out of the bag league wide about how limited Ben is and we are seeing that now.

Could Not Disagree More. NBA publications/Media almost all have Ben Simmons as a Top 20 player in the NBA.

For this instance we'll use ESPN Top 100. Ben Simmons is #16 Bradley Beal is # 22.

Simmons peers are Jayson Tatum #11 Joel Embiid #14 Devin Booker #17,Donovan Mitchell #18 Zion Williamson #19. Would any of these guys be in a package for a locker room problem , 31 y.o James Harden ? No they wouldnt and Morey is a dope for having Ben Simmons in that package for Harden.

Dodged a huge bullet and Sixer fans really need to start respecting Ben Simmons upside and value.

Under no circumstance would I have traded Ben for Harden. I would consider Ben for Beal seeing how Beal is in the prime at 27 y.o. Having a monster bust-out year.

[Iverson Armband]

Ya, I don't think those teams would trade those players for Beal. It wouldn't make any sense.

Us trading Ben for him wouldn't make any sense either.

It would have to be a Maxey, Tybulle, Shake, picks type package, IMO.

Why wouldn’t trading Ben for Beal make sense for us? It makes tons of sense.

Nets just added Harden without giving up their superstars.

Who plays the point if we make this trade with Simmons?

We wouldn’t be giving up our Superstar (Embiid) either. Simmons is not a superstar.

[aHealthy3]

I think some of you guys think Ben is a lot more valuable league wide than he actually is. If he was really thought of as some can't miss young stud like he maybe was 2 years ago then James Harden would be a sixer right now. The idea that Washington would give up Beal AND PICKS for Ben is straight up delusional and laughable. The asking price for Beal will be similar to what Harden went for. Maybe Lavine would be closer to a straight up deal but we may still need to even add to Ben to get that done. I think the cat is kinda out of the bag league wide about how limited Ben is and we are seeing that now.

Could Not Disagree More. NBA publications/Media almost all have Ben Simmons as a Top 20 player in the NBA.

For this instance we'll use ESPN Top 100. Ben Simmons is #16 Bradley Beal is # 22.

Simmons peers are Jayson Tatum #11 Joel Embiid #14 Devin Booker #17,Donovan Mitchell #18 Zion Williamson #19. Would any of these guys be in a package for a locker room problem , 31 y.o James Harden ? No they wouldnt and Morey is a dope for having Ben Simmons in that package for Harden.

Dodged a huge bullet and Sixer fans really need to start respecting Ben Simmons upside and value.

Under no circumstance would I have traded Ben for Harden. I would consider Ben for Beal seeing how Beal is in the prime at 27 y.o. Having a monster bust-out year.

I have typically defended Ben but this is ridiculous lol. Ben being ahead of Booker in that list shows how little credibility it has. I doubt there is a single GM in the entire NBA that would take Ben over Booker straight up. Literally not one. Same goes for Beal and plenty of other guys ranked below him.

At some point you have to show some type of improvement to continue to justify this perceived upside. It's year 4 (5 total in the NBA) and he hasn't at all.

[kriss73]

I like Beal and I think he'd be a great fit here.
But made no mistake: Beal is half the player Harden is, both for his history and for skillset.
So the eventual trading price has to go accordingly: in the ballpark of Holiday's trade to the Bucks, imho.

[NBA Moses]

I have typically defended Ben but this is ridiculous lol. Ben being ahead of Booker in that list shows how little credibility it has. I doubt there is a single GM in the entire NBA that would take Ben over Booker straight up. Literally not one. Same goes for Beal and plenty of other guys ranked below him.

At some point you have to show some type of improvement to continue to justify this perceived upside. It's year 4 (5 total in the NBA) and he hasn't at all.

But its not just ESPN, its Sports Illustrated,Ringer,CBS Sports,Atletic,Bleacher Report,Slam etc etc. They all value basketball aspects that most Sixer fans neglect to see,most notably defense.

First 3 yrs Ben Simmons avg 16 pts, 8 assists, 8 rebounds. Giannis first 3 years avg 12 pts 8 reb 2 assists

Ben Simmons First year on the squad the Sixers went 52- 30. The year prior the Sixers were 28-54.

Sixers got swept by Boston without Ben last years playoffs. This kid adds alot to this team and Morey is an imbecile for trying to trade him. He got so lucky. If this clown trades Ben I want Doncic,Giannis,Tatum in return.

[Stanford]

First 3 yrs Ben Simmons avg 16 pts, 8 assists, 8 rebounds. Giannis first 3 years avg 12 pts 8 reb 2 assists

So? Giannis made noticeable improvements every year of his career. Ben has been a flat line since the he drafted.

[Tomjas]

Beal and Lavine are so good that they’ve made **** teams ****

[BullyKing]

Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?

On some level I actually hope he is pissed. Ben's biggest issue is complacency to me and refusing to be more assertive on the court. Not just shooting threes but settling for difficult layups instead of initiating contact to draw fouls. Maybe a "pissed off" Ben is actually a good thing? But who knows. He shows very little emotions so he's very difficult to read. I think people rightly were upset that Brown never seemed to challenge Ben to do more. Well, this is one way of challenging him.

I could see Thybulle actually pissed off that he wasn't traded given that he's barely in the rotation.