Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[DCZards]

The ideas are starting to get interesting. But, as I just wrote, I have trouble believing that Miami will trade a bunch of young players. Some other thoughts...

I think we are in too much of a hurry to conclude that Tyler Herro is going to be something special. I'm not saying he won't be, but I'd say it's too early to place a bet -- & there aren't enough reasons to. Look at the numbers instead of remembering when you saw him do this, that or some other thing.

On the other hand, I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden, as Ruz has suggested. He is absolutely playing his ask off the the question right now, but he'll get valued on his whole career not on how he's playing right now. Just as Harden did.

OTOH, I love the idea of a deal w/ OKC -- they have lots of picks, & picks are what we need most.

I would assume he has equal or more trade value because he is 27 not 31, and didn’t demand a trade request and skip training camp to go to strip clubs, and call out the entire organization in his postgame interview, and throw a ball at a rookie leading to an altercation in practice.

Beal is also easier to play with.

I also believe that many teams may value Beal more than Harden for the reasons you state.

And if the Zards do trade Beal I hope it’s for picks and prospect(s). Picks alone are not enough because we all know that picks are usually hits and misses.

I’d seriously consider a Miami trade that included Herro, Achiuwa and picks.

If the trade were with Atlanta I’d still prefer Reddish to Hunter. Hunter has been much better this season but I think Cam has more upside.

[Frichuela]

Like Nate said, I don’t think OKC is ready to go all in yet, but it would be pretty easy to sell a fanbase on a backcourt of SGA&Beal, and OKC has shown a willingness to trade 1st round picks for star players. Dort, Bazley, and Diallo are all interesting boom or bust type prospects to go along with a handful of 1st round picks. I like the deal also. We could potential add first round picks in each of the next 3 drafts.

Ariza, Miller, Dort, Diallo, Bazley +2021 Heat 1st, 2022 Clippers 1st, 2023 OKC 1st

Not interested. I would like to get for a Beal either a sure fire top 3 pick or a young player with star potential and none of those 3 guys look to be that.

It’s tricky because either we believe Herro can be that player or we trade with GS and get lucky with the top 3 protected 2021 Minny pick being a 4-5th pick that fetch us a top prospect.

Other than that I can not see any other trades that would yield a similar return. Can you?

Not really. How often are top 5 picks even traded? And even those picks can still turn into Patrick Williams. I think the best trade is something centered around Collins&Hunter+picks from Atlanta. I know neither of them have “star” potential, but good players that impact the game positively on both ends help you win games.

I’m not convinced that Herro has star potential either though. Ben Simmons is good, but not anywhere as impactful as Beal can be on a good team.

The minny pick is the best asset discussed, but Minny will FORSURE be bottom 3 in the league, they are terrible, so most likely a 2022 pick.

The Atlanta Hawks could be an option but are they interested in Beal? Whenever this trade is proposed many in their Board retort that Beal is a bad defensive fit with Trae Young. For this reason, I think they would be very reluctant to part ways with Hunter. Maybe we can poach Reddish and Okongwu in addition to Collins?

A Beal/Wagner for Snell/Reddish/Collins/Okongwu works on the trade machine. Add their 2021 1st round pick and this may be appealing.

[Frichuela]

Not interested. I would like to get for a Beal either a sure fire top 3 pick or a young player with star potential and none of those 3 guys look to be that.

It’s tricky because either we believe Herro can be that player or we trade with GS and get lucky with the top 3 protected 2021 Minny pick being a 4-5th pick that fetch us a top prospect.

Other than that I can not see any other trades that would yield a similar return. Can you?

Not really. How often are top 5 picks even traded? And even those picks can still turn into Patrick Williams. I think the best trade is something centered around Collins&Hunter+picks from Atlanta. I know neither of them have “star” potential, but good players that impact the game positively on both ends help you win games.

I’m not convinced that Herro has star potential either though. Ben Simmons is good, but not anywhere as impactful as Beal can be on a good team.

The minny pick is the best asset discussed, but Minny will FORSURE be bottom 3 in the league, they are terrible, so most likely a 2022 pick.

The Atlanta Hawks could be an option but are they interested in Beal? Whenever this trade is proposed many in their Board retort that Beal is a bad defensive fit with Trae Young. For this reason, I think they would be very reluctant to part ways with Hunter. Maybe we can poach Reddish and Okongwu in addition to Collins?

A Beal/Wagner for Snell/Reddish/Collins/Okongwu works on the trade machine. Add their 2021 1st round pick and this may be appealing.

Or maybe, would Atlanta be more interested in someone like Ben Simmons, so we make this a 3-way trade? Philly gets Beal, Atlanta Simmons and we get a treasure chest of young players (including a Maxey from Philly)

[Dat2U]

The ideas are starting to get interesting. But, as I just wrote, I have trouble believing that Miami will trade a bunch of young players. Some other thoughts...

I think we are in too much of a hurry to conclude that Tyler Herro is going to be something special. I'm not saying he won't be, but I'd say it's too early to place a bet -- & there aren't enough reasons to. Look at the numbers instead of remembering when you saw him do this, that or some other thing.

On the other hand, I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden, as Ruz has suggested. He is absolutely playing his ask off the the question right now, but he'll get valued on his whole career not on how he's playing right now. Just as Harden did.

OTOH, I love the idea of a deal w/ OKC -- they have lots of picks, & picks are what we need most.

I would assume he has equal or more trade value because he is 27 not 31, and didn’t demand a trade request and skip training camp to go to strip clubs, and call out the entire organization in his postgame interview, and throw a ball at a rookie leading to an altercation in practice.

Beal is also easier to play with.

I also believe that many teams may value Beal more than Harden for the reasons you state.

And if the Zards do trade Beal I hope it’s for picks and prospect(s). Picks alone are not enough because we all know that picks are usually hits and misses.

I’d seriously consider a Miami trade that included Herro, Achiuwa and picks.

If the trade were with Atlanta I’d still prefer Reddish to Hunter. Hunter has been much better this season but I think Cam has more upside.

And I dont think the value with Collins in a contract year is there. Nor is PF a position of need. I prefer Herro to any of their prospects. Reddish or Hunter couldn't be the centerpiece of a deal for me.

[Ruzious]

Not really. How often are top 5 picks even traded? And even those picks can still turn into Patrick Williams. I think the best trade is something centered around Collins&Hunter+picks from Atlanta. I know neither of them have “star” potential, but good players that impact the game positively on both ends help you win games.

I’m not convinced that Herro has star potential either though. Ben Simmons is good, but not anywhere as impactful as Beal can be on a good team.

The minny pick is the best asset discussed, but Minny will FORSURE be bottom 3 in the league, they are terrible, so most likely a 2022 pick.

The Atlanta Hawks could be an option but are they interested in Beal? Whenever this trade is proposed many in their Board retort that Beal is a bad defensive fit with Trae Young. For this reason, I think they would be very reluctant to part ways with Hunter. Maybe we can poach Reddish and Okongwu in addition to Collins?

A Beal/Wagner for Snell/Reddish/Collins/Okongwu works on the trade machine. Add their 2021 1st round pick and this may be appealing.

Or maybe, would Atlanta be more interested in someone like Ben Simmons, so we make this a 3-way trade? Philly gets Beal, Atlanta Simmons and we get a treasure chest of young players (including a Maxey from Philly)

I like your thinking there. I value Collins and Hunter more than Dat does. And like you said, maybe we sneak in Maxey. Or maybe we sneak in Okongwu. If we get Hunter, Okongwu and Maxey... I like that. There's several ways to go with an Atlanta, Philly, Washington 3-way. Or maybe Miami is in there replacing either Atlanta or Philly.

[payitforward]

The ideas are starting to get interesting. But, as I just wrote, I have trouble believing that Miami will trade a bunch of young players. Some other thoughts...

I think we are in too much of a hurry to conclude that Tyler Herro is going to be something special. I'm not saying he won't be, but I'd say it's too early to place a bet -- & there aren't enough reasons to. Look at the numbers instead of remembering when you saw him do this, that or some other thing.

On the other hand, I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden, as Ruz has suggested. He is absolutely playing his ask off the the question right now, but he'll get valued on his whole career not on how he's playing right now. Just as Harden did.

OTOH, I love the idea of a deal w/ OKC -- they have lots of picks, & picks are what we need most.

Yeah, so who are the young players you're talking about that Miami won't trade to get Beal?

I might be all wrong, goes w/o saying. & I'm sure they'd love to have Brad Beal -- any team would.

But, the Heat are 4-5 right now: I wonder whether Pat Riley is likely to be thinking "this is the time to go all in." &, if not, then I can easily imagine that instead he'd be thinking "this is a time to be developing my talented young guys & making some really smart draft picks."

Then again... I'm not exactly in a position to know what Riley is thinking, so, as I say, "I might be all wrong."

[payitforward]

...I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden...

I would assume he has equal or more trade value because he is 27 not 31, and didn’t demand a trade request and skip training camp to go to strip clubs, and call out the entire organization in his postgame interview, and throw a ball at a rookie leading to an altercation in practice....

Of course! Just a forgetful & dumb moment on my part!

For some incomprehensible reason, James Harden decided to do everything he could to lower his value & make it more difficult to trade him.

[Ruzious]

The ideas are starting to get interesting. But, as I just wrote, I have trouble believing that Miami will trade a bunch of young players. Some other thoughts...

I think we are in too much of a hurry to conclude that Tyler Herro is going to be something special. I'm not saying he won't be, but I'd say it's too early to place a bet -- & there aren't enough reasons to. Look at the numbers instead of remembering when you saw him do this, that or some other thing.

On the other hand, I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden, as Ruz has suggested. He is absolutely playing his ask off the the question right now, but he'll get valued on his whole career not on how he's playing right now. Just as Harden did.

OTOH, I love the idea of a deal w/ OKC -- they have lots of picks, & picks are what we need most.

Yeah, so who are the young players you're talking about that Miami won't trade to get Beal?

I might be all wrong, goes w/o saying. & I'm sure they'd love to have Brad Beal -- any team would.

But, the Heat are 4-5 right now: I wonder whether Pat Riley is likely to be thinking "this is the time to go all in." &, if not, then I can easily imagine that instead he'd be thinking "this is a time to be developing my talented young guys & making some really smart draft picks."

Then again... I'm not exactly in a position to know what Riley is thinking, so, as I say, "I might be all wrong."

They were in the NBA Finals last season. I think Riley is thinking it'd be cool to go back.

[payitforward]

Like Nate said, I don’t think OKC is ready to go all in yet, but it would be pretty easy to sell a fanbase on a backcourt of SGA&Beal, and OKC has shown a willingness to trade 1st round picks for star players. Dort, Bazley, and Diallo are all interesting boom or bust type prospects to go along with a handful of 1st round picks. I like the deal also. We could potential add first round picks in each of the next 3 drafts.

Ariza, Miller, Dort, Diallo, Bazley +2021 Heat 1st, 2022 Clippers 1st, 2023 OKC 1st

If OKC is involved, I think it should be a 3-way with Beal going to Philly, Simmons to OKC, and a bunch of picks/prospects going to DC. Exactly how many picks and prospects we can extract from Philly and OKC is a matter of speculation.

It makes more sense for OKC because Simmons is younger and more of a future prospect instead of win-now, and he isn't as redundant with SGA.

Ideal!

[payitforward]

I would assume (Brad) has equal or more trade value (than Harden) because he is 27 not 31, and didn’t demand a trade request and skip training camp to go to strip clubs, and call out the entire organization in his postgame interview, and throw a ball at a rookie leading to an altercation in practice.....

I also believe that many teams may value Beal more than Harden for the reasons you state.

And if the Zards do trade Beal I hope it’s for picks and prospect(s). Picks alone are not enough because we all know that picks are usually hits and misses.

I’d seriously consider a Miami trade that included Herro, Achiuwa and picks.

If the trade were with Atlanta I’d still prefer Reddish to Hunter. Hunter has been much better this season but I think Cam has more upside.

Yes, well those are all excellent reasons! My excuse is that I posted while asleep.

Zards -- by "prospects," I take you to mean young guys -- players who haven't yet established their real value & have a lot of upside. Sure, I agree with that.

Those guys also are "hits and misses" of course. If it were a sure thing, or even an 80% thing, that Cam would reach the potential you see for him, he'd be worth a lot more in a trade than he's worth now.

I'm surprised, however, that you prefer him to Hunter in such a decided way! Hunter was for sure your guy in the '19 draft, the guy you hoped we could somehow get. I, OTOH, was lukewarm on him.

So, we've swapped spots. We'll see how it works out. Of course, they might both be great (hits) or terrible (misses).

Certainly, a mix of picks and prospects is a great idea.

As to the Miami idea -- it's a pretty good bet that both Achiuwa & Herro turn out to be good players.

In Herro's case b/c he's already shown one skill -- how good he'll be is as much about how many other skills he develops & how far.

As to Precious, I think I might have more confidence in him, because he plays so dxmn hard!

Right now, however, it's just an awful lot of fun to watch Bradley Beal play basketball! I hope he stays a Wizard! Forever...!

[payitforward]

I might be all wrong, goes w/o saying. & I'm sure they'd love to have Brad Beal -- any team would.

But, the Heat are 4-5 right now: I wonder whether Pat Riley is likely to be thinking "this is the time to go all in." &, if not, then I can easily imagine that instead he'd be thinking "this is a time to be developing my talented young guys & making some really smart draft picks."

Then again... I'm not exactly in a position to know what Riley is thinking, so, as I say, "I might be all wrong."

They were in the NBA Finals last season. I think Riley is thinking it'd be cool to go back.

Well, obviously.... But, the bubble was a singular situation & experience. To me at least, it's not at all the same as having been in the Finals in an ordinary season.

...God... suddenly that makes me wonder what this year's playoffs will be like! Who knows!?!? Maybe "Bubble II," "Son of Bubble?"

[Frichuela]

The Atlanta Hawks could be an option but are they interested in Beal? Whenever this trade is proposed many in their Board retort that Beal is a bad defensive fit with Trae Young. For this reason, I think they would be very reluctant to part ways with Hunter. Maybe we can poach Reddish and Okongwu in addition to Collins?

A Beal/Wagner for Snell/Reddish/Collins/Okongwu works on the trade machine. Add their 2021 1st round pick and this may be appealing.

Or maybe, would Atlanta be more interested in someone like Ben Simmons, so we make this a 3-way trade? Philly gets Beal, Atlanta Simmons and we get a treasure chest of young players (including a Maxey from Philly)

I like your thinking there. I value Collins and Hunter more than Dat does. And like you said, maybe we sneak in Maxey. Or maybe we sneak in Okongwu. If we get Hunter, Okongwu and Maxey... I like that. There's several ways to go with an Atlanta, Philly, Washington 3-way. Or maybe Miami is in there replacing either Atlanta or Philly.

Playing with the ESPN trade machine here is a trade that appears to work cap wise:

Atlanta trades Snell, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu, Collins + their 2021 1st (unprotected)
Atlanta gets Simmons, Hachimura, Wagner, Bonga

Philly trades Simmons, Maxey
Philly gets Beal, Jerome Robinson

Washington trades Beal, Hachimura, Wagner, Bonga, Jerome Robinson
Washington gets Maxey, Snell, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu, Collins + Atlanta’s 2021 1st (unprotected)

So our rotation pre 2021 draft becomes:

Westbrick/Neto/Ish/Winston (2-way)
Reddish/Maxey/Matthews (2-way)
Hunter/Avdija/Troy/Snell
Collins/Bertans/Gil
Lopez/Okongwu/Bryant

And then will have a 2021 lottery pick on our side plus a potentially 12-20 pick on Atlanta’s side.

Is there all-star potential in any of the youngsters? Collins? Reddish? Advija, Hunter or Maxey?

[penbeast0]

Wiseman + Wiggins + Minnesota 2021 1st(top 3 protected) + Warriors 2023 1st
for
Beal + salary filler

how much more do the Warriors have to add for this trade to be considered acceptable assuming Beal is on the trading block? Also assume Wiggins must be included and the deal must be done by this season's trade deadline.

Get Klay rather than Wiggins and I'm on board, the salary is still a fit and with Brad, they don't need to take the risk on Klay returning. Don't want Wiggins here, bad enough we have to watch Jerome take developmental minutes away from our youngsters.

[NatP4]

I think Philly would send Thybulle to Atlanta to give them a legit playoff caliber defensive wing next to Young. Atlanta also isn’t giving up that much for Simmons. I think it would be closer to this:

Washington gets:
Collins, Snell, Hunter, Reddish

Atlanta gets:
Simmons, Thybulle

Philly gets:
Beal

One of Philly or Atlanta would also need to send us a draft pick, but I’m not sure which. I think I would rather have any first round pick than Reddish though. Love the talent, but he’s awful.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

The Atlanta Hawks could be an option but are they interested in Beal? Whenever this trade is proposed many in their Board retort that Beal is a bad defensive fit with Trae Young. For this reason, I think they would be very reluctant to part ways with Hunter. Maybe we can poach Reddish and Okongwu in addition to Collins?

A Beal/Wagner for Snell/Reddish/Collins/Okongwu works on the trade machine. Add their 2021 1st round pick and this may be appealing.

Or maybe, would Atlanta be more interested in someone like Ben Simmons, so we make this a 3-way trade? Philly gets Beal, Atlanta Simmons and we get a treasure chest of young players (including a Maxey from Philly)

I like your thinking there. I value Collins and Hunter more than Dat does. And like you said, maybe we sneak in Maxey. Or maybe we sneak in Okongwu. If we get Hunter, Okongwu and Maxey... I like that. There's several ways to go with an Atlanta, Philly, Washington 3-way. Or maybe Miami is in there replacing either Atlanta or Philly.

Something based on this could be interesting...

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7381380

Atlanta gets Simmons.

Philly gets Beal.

Wizards get Hunter, Okongwu, Reddish, Dunn, Maxey.

[NatP4]

It makes sense for Washington and Philly, but why the hell would Atlanta do that? Gut their entire roster and all assets for Ben Simmons....

[SA37]

The ideas are starting to get interesting. But, as I just wrote, I have trouble believing that Miami will trade a bunch of young players. Some other thoughts...

I think we are in too much of a hurry to conclude that Tyler Herro is going to be something special. I'm not saying he won't be, but I'd say it's too early to place a bet -- & there aren't enough reasons to. Look at the numbers instead of remembering when you saw him do this, that or some other thing.

On the other hand, I can't see how Brad has more trade value than Harden, as Ruz has suggested. He is absolutely playing his ask off the the question right now, but he'll get valued on his whole career not on how he's playing right now. Just as Harden did.

OTOH, I love the idea of a deal w/ OKC -- they have lots of picks, & picks are what we need most.

If everyone knew Herro was for sure going to be something special -- and given he is already playing really well -- why would Miami trade him?

Whether you trade for Herro, Ben Simmons, or draft picks, there is some level of risk involved (Herro not becoming the player you hoped he'd be, Simmons not being the franchise cornerstone some people believe he can be, the picks being lower than you expected/your picks being a bust or just average NBA guys).

I completely agree that Beal does not have more trade value than Harden, but the Harden trade may really inflate Beal's value and push Miami, New Orleans, Denver, or Atlanta to go after Beal aggressively.

[SA37]

Like Nate said, I don’t think OKC is ready to go all in yet, but it would be pretty easy to sell a fanbase on a backcourt of SGA&Beal, and OKC has shown a willingness to trade 1st round picks for star players. Dort, Bazley, and Diallo are all interesting boom or bust type prospects to go along with a handful of 1st round picks. I like the deal also. We could potential add first round picks in each of the next 3 drafts.

Ariza, Miller, Dort, Diallo, Bazley +2021 Heat 1st, 2022 Clippers 1st, 2023 OKC 1st

If OKC is involved, I think it should be a 3-way with Beal going to Philly, Simmons to OKC, and a bunch of picks/prospects going to DC. Exactly how many picks and prospects we can extract from Philly and OKC is a matter of speculation.

It makes more sense for OKC because Simmons is younger and more of a future prospect instead of win-now, and he isn't as redundant with SGA.

Plus, Simmons is under contract for 4 more seasons beyond this one and doesn't have a player option for a team acquiring him to worry about.

[SA37]

Or maybe, would Atlanta be more interested in someone like Ben Simmons, so we make this a 3-way trade? Philly gets Beal, Atlanta Simmons and we get a treasure chest of young players (including a Maxey from Philly)

I like your thinking there. I value Collins and Hunter more than Dat does. And like you said, maybe we sneak in Maxey. Or maybe we sneak in Okongwu. If we get Hunter, Okongwu and Maxey... I like that. There's several ways to go with an Atlanta, Philly, Washington 3-way. Or maybe Miami is in there replacing either Atlanta or Philly.

Playing with the ESPN trade machine here is a trade that appears to work cap wise:

Atlanta trades Snell, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu, Collins + their 2021 1st (unprotected)
Atlanta gets Simmons, Hachimura, Wagner, Bonga

Philly trades Simmons, Maxey
Philly gets Beal, Jerome Robinson

Washington trades Beal, Hachimura, Wagner, Bonga, Jerome Robinson
Washington gets Maxey, Snell, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu, Collins + Atlanta’s 2021 1st (unprotected)

That's pretty reasonable, but Atlanta gives up a little too much for my taste and I don't think Philly gets enough back to justify the inclusion of Maxey.

I doubt Atlanta would include Okongwu and would likely put some level of protection on the pick (lotto protected this year, given it is supposed to be a deep Draft and this is an unpredictable season, and then less protections going forward).

[Ruzious]

I might be all wrong, goes w/o saying. & I'm sure they'd love to have Brad Beal -- any team would.

But, the Heat are 4-5 right now: I wonder whether Pat Riley is likely to be thinking "this is the time to go all in." &, if not, then I can easily imagine that instead he'd be thinking "this is a time to be developing my talented young guys & making some really smart draft picks."

Then again... I'm not exactly in a position to know what Riley is thinking, so, as I say, "I might be all wrong."

They were in the NBA Finals last season. I think Riley is thinking it'd be cool to go back.

Well, obviously.... But, the bubble was a singular situation & experience. To me at least, it's not at all the same as having been in the Finals in an ordinary season.

...God... suddenly that makes me wonder what this year's playoffs will be like! Who knows!?!? Maybe "Bubble II," "Son of Bubble?"

Gong. There's no Bubble asterisk - not even a Flubber asterisk. You wanna tell the Bucks - "It's okay that you lost that series to Miami - afterall, it was just the Bubble". Meanwhile, they basically ran out Bledsoe on a rail for not doing well in that series. It was a big deal that Miami won the East last season - it counted just like any other season - as it should have.