Stephen Curry has been totally exposed

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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1201 » by LouisLitt » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:02 am

Joerezz7 wrote:
SeanieWard wrote:Steph has flaws as a player but he's still very elite.

Steph is facing double teams, triple teams, and box and 1 junk defenses in regular season games. I don't think I've ever seen this before. That's how much his opponents fear him

He might be the only player in the league facing that kind of defense on a night to night basis

His stats don't reflect his impact


Every superstar in the league faced that type of defense before. It’s just Steph first time going through it in a season. Y’all wonder why these type of threads pop up about Steph, it’s because yall Steph fans make up blatant lies when it comes to him.


People shouldn't be playing defense on Steph though, it's just mean and unfair.

He would be the best player ever if people would just stop playing defense on him.

The NBA needs to step in.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1202 » by xdrta+ » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:31 am

Kings4win wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:
SeanieWard wrote:Steph has flaws as a player but he's still very elite.

Steph is facing double teams, triple teams, and box and 1 junk defenses in regular season games. I don't think I've ever seen this before. That's how much his opponents fear him

He might be the only player in the league facing that kind of defense on a night to night basis

His stats don't reflect his impact


Every superstar in the league faced that type of defense before. It’s just Steph first time going through it in a season. Y’all wonder why these type of threads pop up about Steph, it’s because yall Steph fans make up blatant lies when it comes to him.
Yeah and this is the problem,it doesn't matter how poorly Curry plays his fans will give him a pass and say he had a huge impact, he shot 2-16 with 5 turnovers the game against the raptors and people here were saying he had a great game and a big impact lol


Well, I didn't see anyone say he had a "great" game, just that he had an impact. Why that is such a problem for you is a more interesting question.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1203 » by Kings4win » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:00 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Kings4win wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:
Every superstar in the league faced that type of defense before. It’s just Steph first time going through it in a season. Y’all wonder why these type of threads pop up about Steph, it’s because yall Steph fans make up blatant lies when it comes to him.
Yeah and this is the problem,it doesn't matter how poorly Curry plays his fans will give him a pass and say he had a huge impact, he shot 2-16 with 5 turnovers the game against the raptors and people here were saying he had a great game and a big impact lol


Well, I didn't see anyone say he had a "great" game, just that he had an impact. Why that is such a problem for you is a more interesting question.
It's a problem because players like Harden, LeBron, KD, CP3, Kawhi, Westbrook etc get destroyed on these boards when they don't play well but Curry fans are always lining up with excuses for him, he literally always gets a pass.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1204 » by michaelm » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:46 am

Who is saying Curry is being defended unfairly ?.

Curry does need some help, like every other player including LeBron. It is hardly a mystery that the box and 1 tactic can stop him if he has no other shooter as an outlet pass option. No-one is saying that tactic Is unfair or shouldn’t be employed against him, just that it is not a good idea to have him on the floor with no other shooters.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1205 » by xdrta+ » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:19 am

Kings4win wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Kings4win wrote:Yeah and this is the problem,it doesn't matter how poorly Curry plays his fans will give him a pass and say he had a huge impact, he shot 2-16 with 5 turnovers the game against the raptors and people here were saying he had a great game and a big impact lol


Well, I didn't see anyone say he had a "great" game, just that he had an impact. Why that is such a problem for you is a more interesting question.
It's a problem because players like Harden, LeBron, KD, CP3, Kawhi, Westbrook etc get destroyed on these boards when they don't play well but Curry fans are always lining up with excuses for him, he literally always gets a pass.


And LeBron fans line up for him, and Harden fans line up for him, etc., etc,. It's interesting that you have such a problem with it when it's Curry. And you have a peculiar definition of "destroyed."
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1206 » by Gabe Ball » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:15 am

LouisLitt wrote:
Joerezz7 wrote:
SeanieWard wrote:Steph has flaws as a player but he's still very elite.

Steph is facing double teams, triple teams, and box and 1 junk defenses in regular season games. I don't think I've ever seen this before. That's how much his opponents fear him

He might be the only player in the league facing that kind of defense on a night to night basis

His stats don't reflect his impact


Every superstar in the league faced that type of defense before. It’s just Steph first time going through it in a season. Y’all wonder why these type of threads pop up about Steph, it’s because yall Steph fans make up blatant lies when it comes to him.


People shouldn't be playing defense on Steph though, it's just mean and unfair.

He would be the best player ever if people would just stop playing defense on him.

The NBA needs to step in.


I see what you did there...

Yeah we're really just now seeing Steph have to deal with what every other superstar has had to deal with, although granted he could use the help
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1207 » by Pelly24 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:17 am

scrabbarista wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I don't think Steph's been exposed an he's generally playing fine, but to me, any argument that he was ever a better player than Kevin Durant or James Harden or maybe even CP3 in a vacuum is just about done, for me. Steph's been really streaky this year and it feels like whether or not he had a good game depends almost entirely on whether he's shooting well from three. I don't think he should be classified in a different way than Harden at all really, but he's granted this kind of mythic status and people give him all sorts of credit and the benefit of the doubt at every turn, largely. I heard Ben Golliver say that he wouldn't blame Steph for not making the playoffs this year. That just makes me wonder what he'dve said about Russell Westbrook and OKC during the 2016-2017 season. Steph's an amazing player but if things continue this way, I'm probably gonna dock him a bit. Does it matter what I say? No, but just saying.


I would be surprised if GSW doesn't make the playoffs, and assuming he's healthy, it would affect my opinion of Curry at age 33 (which he will be in two months). I would think less of him as a player... at age 33. It wouldn't affect my opinion of him from 2012 to 2019, when he was mostly in his 20's.

If you want to put him on the same tier as Harden and Durant - or CP3 - that's fine, but he's still the only one of those four to win a title without another superstar. In fact, he's won more titles than those three combined. He's also the only player in history to lead the league in scoring and TS% the same season. He averaged over 30 on .669 TS%. No one in league history has come close to that level of efficiency and volume. Not Durant, Harden, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Giannis, or anyone. And then he turned around the next season and welcomed Durant onto the team. He has a very strong case for the best scoring season of all time, and yet he's the greatest off-ball scorer of all time, which would allow him to comfortably fit with a traditional scorer like Durant or any of the other names you mentioned. That makes him unique. But I'm starting to ramble.

When I say he's second to LeBron James and no one is really close to him, I'm including the aspects of his character that have allowed his organization and teammates (and fans of his team, in a sense) to thrive around him. I try to consider such things when I look at players' careers. I can understand how someone who doesn't consider such things would be lower on him than I am. Of course, though, I'm mostly referencing his game on the court when I consider his value as a player.



Yeah I think Steph has had a remarkable career and I appreciate it i think. You're right about his character. I don't want to hold things against him per se, but pretty much any of his obstacles in 2015 were removed. CP3 got injured right after Blake Griffin (i think), OKC didn't make the playoffs that year because KD missed most of the season and Russ also missed like 12 games so he didn't have to play them. Then Kyrie and Kevin Love were both injured. He was great in 2015, but it's not as though he shouldn't have won. Give Harden a Klay Thompson, all those ballhandlers and shooters and passers i think he could also win a chip. And then after KD came it wasn't really an amazing accomplishment to win a chip.


There's a good chance he's lost some of his abilities now that he's 33, but to me he looks the same, but he's outside the confines of a very good team, and he's always relied way too much on his three-ball. Every time he struggles it seems like that's more the reason than anything else. I'm not convinced 2016 Steph would be doing much better than present-day Steph.

That said, if this Warriors team makes 6th or 7th seed, that to me means he's a pretty damn solid floor-raiser in addition to being maybe the GOAT ceiling raiser. I think Curry is great and a top 10 player still, but I just don't think he's a clearcut better player than CP3 (prime), Harden or KD. I see Steph as a top 25-30 player ever rather than like, top 15 like some people.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1208 » by Peregrine01 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:32 am

Pelly24 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I don't think Steph's been exposed an he's generally playing fine, but to me, any argument that he was ever a better player than Kevin Durant or James Harden or maybe even CP3 in a vacuum is just about done, for me. Steph's been really streaky this year and it feels like whether or not he had a good game depends almost entirely on whether he's shooting well from three. I don't think he should be classified in a different way than Harden at all really, but he's granted this kind of mythic status and people give him all sorts of credit and the benefit of the doubt at every turn, largely. I heard Ben Golliver say that he wouldn't blame Steph for not making the playoffs this year. That just makes me wonder what he'dve said about Russell Westbrook and OKC during the 2016-2017 season. Steph's an amazing player but if things continue this way, I'm probably gonna dock him a bit. Does it matter what I say? No, but just saying.


I would be surprised if GSW doesn't make the playoffs, and assuming he's healthy, it would affect my opinion of Curry at age 33 (which he will be in two months). I would think less of him as a player... at age 33. It wouldn't affect my opinion of him from 2012 to 2019, when he was mostly in his 20's.

If you want to put him on the same tier as Harden and Durant - or CP3 - that's fine, but he's still the only one of those four to win a title without another superstar. In fact, he's won more titles than those three combined. He's also the only player in history to lead the league in scoring and TS% the same season. He averaged over 30 on .669 TS%. No one in league history has come close to that level of efficiency and volume. Not Durant, Harden, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Giannis, or anyone. And then he turned around the next season and welcomed Durant onto the team. He has a very strong case for the best scoring season of all time, and yet he's the greatest off-ball scorer of all time, which would allow him to comfortably fit with a traditional scorer like Durant or any of the other names you mentioned. That makes him unique. But I'm starting to ramble.

When I say he's second to LeBron James and no one is really close to him, I'm including the aspects of his character that have allowed his organization and teammates (and fans of his team, in a sense) to thrive around him. I try to consider such things when I look at players' careers. I can understand how someone who doesn't consider such things would be lower on him than I am. Of course, though, I'm mostly referencing his game on the court when I consider his value as a player.



Yeah I think Steph has had a remarkable career and I appreciate it i think. You're right about his character. I don't want to hold things against him per se, but pretty much any of his obstacles in 2015 were removed. CP3 got injured right after Blake Griffin (i think), OKC didn't make the playoffs that year because KD missed most of the season and Russ also missed like 12 games so he didn't have to play them. Then Kyrie and Kevin Love were both injured. He was great in 2015, but it's not as though he shouldn't have won. Give Harden a Klay Thompson, all those ballhandlers and shooters and passers i think he could also win a chip. And then after KD came it wasn't really an amazing accomplishment to win a chip.


There's a good chance he's lost some of his abilities now that he's 33, but to me he looks the same, but he's outside the confines of a very good team, and he's always relied way too much on his three-ball. Every time he struggles it seems like that's more the reason than anything else. I'm not convinced 2016 Steph would be doing much better than present-day Steph.

That said, if this Warriors team makes 6th or 7th seed, that to me means he's a pretty damn solid floor-raiser in addition to being maybe the GOAT ceiling raiser. I think Curry is great and a top 10 player still, but I just don't think he's a clearcut better player than CP3 (prime), Harden or KD. I see Steph as a top 25-30 player ever rather than like, top 15 like some people.


If you think the only thing that makes Steph who he is is the three, then you’re gravely mistaken.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1209 » by Kings4win » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:46 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Kings4win wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Well, I didn't see anyone say he had a "great" game, just that he had an impact. Why that is such a problem for you is a more interesting question.
It's a problem because players like Harden, LeBron, KD, CP3, Kawhi, Westbrook etc get destroyed on these boards when they don't play well but Curry fans are always lining up with excuses for him, he literally always gets a pass.


And LeBron fans line up for him, and Harden fans line up for him, etc., etc,. It's interesting that you have such a problem with it when it's Curry. And you have a peculiar definition of "destroyed."
And you have a peculiar man crush on Steph
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1210 » by art_tatum » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:53 am

Kings4win wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Kings4win wrote:It's a problem because players like Harden, LeBron, KD, CP3, Kawhi, Westbrook etc get destroyed on these boards when they don't play well but Curry fans are always lining up with excuses for him, he literally always gets a pass.


And LeBron fans line up for him, and Harden fans line up for him, etc., etc,. It's interesting that you have such a problem with it when it's Curry. And you have a peculiar definition of "destroyed."
And you have a peculiar man crush on Steph

I mean... Those eyes...
But oubre tho, I like them cute and dumb
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1211 » by xdrta+ » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:20 am

Kings4win wrote:
And you have a peculiar man crush on Steph


Ooh, good one, a gay joke, they're always fun.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1212 » by Kings4win » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:35 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Kings4win wrote:
And you have a peculiar man crush on Steph


Ooh, good one, a gay joke, they're always fun.
Man crush is not a gay joke and never has been
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1213 » by GrandTheftRondo » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:44 am

Pelly24 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:I don't think Steph's been exposed an he's generally playing fine, but to me, any argument that he was ever a better player than Kevin Durant or James Harden or maybe even CP3 in a vacuum is just about done, for me. Steph's been really streaky this year and it feels like whether or not he had a good game depends almost entirely on whether he's shooting well from three. I don't think he should be classified in a different way than Harden at all really, but he's granted this kind of mythic status and people give him all sorts of credit and the benefit of the doubt at every turn, largely. I heard Ben Golliver say that he wouldn't blame Steph for not making the playoffs this year. That just makes me wonder what he'dve said about Russell Westbrook and OKC during the 2016-2017 season. Steph's an amazing player but if things continue this way, I'm probably gonna dock him a bit. Does it matter what I say? No, but just saying.


I would be surprised if GSW doesn't make the playoffs, and assuming he's healthy, it would affect my opinion of Curry at age 33 (which he will be in two months). I would think less of him as a player... at age 33. It wouldn't affect my opinion of him from 2012 to 2019, when he was mostly in his 20's.

If you want to put him on the same tier as Harden and Durant - or CP3 - that's fine, but he's still the only one of those four to win a title without another superstar. In fact, he's won more titles than those three combined. He's also the only player in history to lead the league in scoring and TS% the same season. He averaged over 30 on .669 TS%. No one in league history has come close to that level of efficiency and volume. Not Durant, Harden, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Giannis, or anyone. And then he turned around the next season and welcomed Durant onto the team. He has a very strong case for the best scoring season of all time, and yet he's the greatest off-ball scorer of all time, which would allow him to comfortably fit with a traditional scorer like Durant or any of the other names you mentioned. That makes him unique. But I'm starting to ramble.

When I say he's second to LeBron James and no one is really close to him, I'm including the aspects of his character that have allowed his organization and teammates (and fans of his team, in a sense) to thrive around him. I try to consider such things when I look at players' careers. I can understand how someone who doesn't consider such things would be lower on him than I am. Of course, though, I'm mostly referencing his game on the court when I consider his value as a player.



Yeah I think Steph has had a remarkable career and I appreciate it i think. You're right about his character. I don't want to hold things against him per se, but pretty much any of his obstacles in 2015 were removed. CP3 got injured right after Blake Griffin (i think), OKC didn't make the playoffs that year because KD missed most of the season and Russ also missed like 12 games so he didn't have to play them. Then Kyrie and Kevin Love were both injured. He was great in 2015, but it's not as though he shouldn't have won. Give Harden a Klay Thompson, all those ballhandlers and shooters and passers i think he could also win a chip. And then after KD came it wasn't really an amazing accomplishment to win a chip.


There's a good chance he's lost some of his abilities now that he's 33, but to me he looks the same, but he's outside the confines of a very good team, and he's always relied way too much on his three-ball. Every time he struggles it seems like that's more the reason than anything else. I'm not convinced 2016 Steph would be doing much better than present-day Steph.

That said, if this Warriors team makes 6th or 7th seed, that to me means he's a pretty damn solid floor-raiser in addition to being maybe the GOAT ceiling raiser. I think Curry is great and a top 10 player still, but I just don't think he's a clearcut better player than CP3 (prime), Harden or KD. I see Steph as a top 25-30 player ever rather than like, top 15 like some people.

I have never seen a team and players title run be as heavily scrutinised as the Warriors is.

You can go through every title and find teams that had injuries, down years etc.

Also well done on just blatantly making up stuff about the Clippers. They were too busy choking against Houston which meant they never played the Warriors. That means they weren’t good enough. How the hell is that a negative against the Warriors?
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1214 » by Spintown » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:48 pm

Mujahydeen wrote:
Spintown wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Curry +7 (best on the team) in 38 minutes in a 1 point win on a career-worst shooting night: if you're too blind to see his gravity at work in the games, then look at the box score.


Curry -21 (worst on the team) putting up empty stats with little to no impact in a 10 point loss.

It goes both ways pal.


Back in the day people would make lazy judgements of players going by box score stats, but with +/- it's even worse now. Curry was by far the best player for the Warriors if you actually watched the game.


Well Curry fans lineup to say his +/- was positive when he has terrible nights. Are you saying they are wrong too? Im just giving an apples to apples example.

or are you one of those that highlights +/- when it helps your argument and then tries to throw it away when it doesn't
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1215 » by Spintown » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:06 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
Spintown wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Curry +7 (best on the team) in 38 minutes in a 1 point win on a career-worst shooting night: if you're too blind to see his gravity at work in the games, then look at the box score.


Curry -21 (worst on the team) putting up empty stats with little to no impact in a 10 point loss.

It goes both ways pal.


Right, but the conversation around Curry is that whatever happens this season is a referendum on his entire career. The numbers I cited were representative of his career, and the numbers you cited are representative of, maybe, this season so far. He was the most impactful player in the league (regular season) from 2012 to 2019 per On-Court (+12.1) and On-Off (+14.6). That's a span of eight years, nearly twice as long as the average NBA career. Number one. He could be the worst player in the league this season, and he still wouldn't be "totally exposed," because his accomplishments speak for themselves. I don't need to list them here. The way I usually phrase his place in the league over the last ten years is that it's not debatable that LeBron James has been the best player, but Curry is closer to LeBron James than anyone else is to Curry.


Those numbers reflect what he was doing when surrounded by better players. Give him a cast where he has to play like a superstar every night and you see what happens?
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1216 » by michaelm » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:34 am

Spintown wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Spintown wrote:
Curry -21 (worst on the team) putting up empty stats with little to no impact in a 10 point loss.

It goes both ways pal.


Right, but the conversation around Curry is that whatever happens this season is a referendum on his entire career. The numbers I cited were representative of his career, and the numbers you cited are representative of, maybe, this season so far. He was the most impactful player in the league (regular season) from 2012 to 2019 per On-Court (+12.1) and On-Off (+14.6). That's a span of eight years, nearly twice as long as the average NBA career. Number one. He could be the worst player in the league this season, and he still wouldn't be "totally exposed," because his accomplishments speak for themselves. I don't need to list them here. The way I usually phrase his place in the league over the last ten years is that it's not debatable that LeBron James has been the best player, but Curry is closer to LeBron James than anyone else is to Curry.


Those numbers reflect what he was doing when surrounded by better players. Give him a cast where he has to play like a superstar every night and you see what happens?

He was better because of them, and they were better because of him. That is how team sport works.

It is a serious flaw that he can’t make players who have never been able to shoot become shooters obviously.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1217 » by Pelly24 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:43 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
I would be surprised if GSW doesn't make the playoffs, and assuming he's healthy, it would affect my opinion of Curry at age 33 (which he will be in two months). I would think less of him as a player... at age 33. It wouldn't affect my opinion of him from 2012 to 2019, when he was mostly in his 20's.

If you want to put him on the same tier as Harden and Durant - or CP3 - that's fine, but he's still the only one of those four to win a title without another superstar. In fact, he's won more titles than those three combined. He's also the only player in history to lead the league in scoring and TS% the same season. He averaged over 30 on .669 TS%. No one in league history has come close to that level of efficiency and volume. Not Durant, Harden, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Giannis, or anyone. And then he turned around the next season and welcomed Durant onto the team. He has a very strong case for the best scoring season of all time, and yet he's the greatest off-ball scorer of all time, which would allow him to comfortably fit with a traditional scorer like Durant or any of the other names you mentioned. That makes him unique. But I'm starting to ramble.

When I say he's second to LeBron James and no one is really close to him, I'm including the aspects of his character that have allowed his organization and teammates (and fans of his team, in a sense) to thrive around him. I try to consider such things when I look at players' careers. I can understand how someone who doesn't consider such things would be lower on him than I am. Of course, though, I'm mostly referencing his game on the court when I consider his value as a player.



Yeah I think Steph has had a remarkable career and I appreciate it i think. You're right about his character. I don't want to hold things against him per se, but pretty much any of his obstacles in 2015 were removed. CP3 got injured right after Blake Griffin (i think), OKC didn't make the playoffs that year because KD missed most of the season and Russ also missed like 12 games so he didn't have to play them. Then Kyrie and Kevin Love were both injured. He was great in 2015, but it's not as though he shouldn't have won. Give Harden a Klay Thompson, all those ballhandlers and shooters and passers i think he could also win a chip. And then after KD came it wasn't really an amazing accomplishment to win a chip.


There's a good chance he's lost some of his abilities now that he's 33, but to me he looks the same, but he's outside the confines of a very good team, and he's always relied way too much on his three-ball. Every time he struggles it seems like that's more the reason than anything else. I'm not convinced 2016 Steph would be doing much better than present-day Steph.

That said, if this Warriors team makes 6th or 7th seed, that to me means he's a pretty damn solid floor-raiser in addition to being maybe the GOAT ceiling raiser. I think Curry is great and a top 10 player still, but I just don't think he's a clearcut better player than CP3 (prime), Harden or KD. I see Steph as a top 25-30 player ever rather than like, top 15 like some people.

I have never seen a team and players title run be as heavily scrutinised as the Warriors is.

You can go through every title and find teams that had injuries, down years etc.

Also well done on just blatantly making up stuff about the Clippers. They were too busy choking against Houston which meant they never played the Warriors. That means they weren’t good enough. How the hell is that a negative against the Warriors?



Oh damn I forgot about 2015, CP3 was healthy. I agree with that.

Still, with Kyrie and Kevin Love out against the Warriors, there was no way GSW wasn't going to win. That's my real point. And then the next year that idea was proven kinda right when the Cavs beat the Warriors. People will bring up the injury, but Steph looked the same then as he did the previous year in the finals, which is the same way he looks now when his second option isn't scoring well.

I'm just not going to go with the "Steph is the only player that won a chip without a superstar" stuff when there are huge extenuating circumstances.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1218 » by Pelly24 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:46 am

Peregrine01 wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
I would be surprised if GSW doesn't make the playoffs, and assuming he's healthy, it would affect my opinion of Curry at age 33 (which he will be in two months). I would think less of him as a player... at age 33. It wouldn't affect my opinion of him from 2012 to 2019, when he was mostly in his 20's.

If you want to put him on the same tier as Harden and Durant - or CP3 - that's fine, but he's still the only one of those four to win a title without another superstar. In fact, he's won more titles than those three combined. He's also the only player in history to lead the league in scoring and TS% the same season. He averaged over 30 on .669 TS%. No one in league history has come close to that level of efficiency and volume. Not Durant, Harden, LeBron, Shaq, Jordan, Giannis, or anyone. And then he turned around the next season and welcomed Durant onto the team. He has a very strong case for the best scoring season of all time, and yet he's the greatest off-ball scorer of all time, which would allow him to comfortably fit with a traditional scorer like Durant or any of the other names you mentioned. That makes him unique. But I'm starting to ramble.

When I say he's second to LeBron James and no one is really close to him, I'm including the aspects of his character that have allowed his organization and teammates (and fans of his team, in a sense) to thrive around him. I try to consider such things when I look at players' careers. I can understand how someone who doesn't consider such things would be lower on him than I am. Of course, though, I'm mostly referencing his game on the court when I consider his value as a player.



Yeah I think Steph has had a remarkable career and I appreciate it i think. You're right about his character. I don't want to hold things against him per se, but pretty much any of his obstacles in 2015 were removed. CP3 got injured right after Blake Griffin (i think), OKC didn't make the playoffs that year because KD missed most of the season and Russ also missed like 12 games so he didn't have to play them. Then Kyrie and Kevin Love were both injured. He was great in 2015, but it's not as though he shouldn't have won. Give Harden a Klay Thompson, all those ballhandlers and shooters and passers i think he could also win a chip. And then after KD came it wasn't really an amazing accomplishment to win a chip.


There's a good chance he's lost some of his abilities now that he's 33, but to me he looks the same, but he's outside the confines of a very good team, and he's always relied way too much on his three-ball. Every time he struggles it seems like that's more the reason than anything else. I'm not convinced 2016 Steph would be doing much better than present-day Steph.

That said, if this Warriors team makes 6th or 7th seed, that to me means he's a pretty damn solid floor-raiser in addition to being maybe the GOAT ceiling raiser. I think Curry is great and a top 10 player still, but I just don't think he's a clearcut better player than CP3 (prime), Harden or KD. I see Steph as a top 25-30 player ever rather than like, top 15 like some people.


If you think the only thing that makes Steph who he is is the three, then you’re gravely mistaken.



I don't think that's all there is to his game. He's an above average passer and is a really good ballhandler and a surprisingly solid defender. He's got amazing touch off the backboard and is an incredible finisher for his size. But, when it comes to breaking people down off the dribble, getting by defenders and just being a night in and night out scoring superstar in the vein of LeBron, Kobe, Harden, KD, MJ, DWade, etc. he is significantly behind. When he isn't hitting more than three three pointers, Steph usually looks kind of pedestrian. You won't see him showcase a diverse array of shot-making or get to the line like 20 times, etc. In the 2016 finals it was actually crazy how normal he looked at times. There's no way you can scheme the other guys out like that.
Peregrine01
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1219 » by Peregrine01 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:39 am

Pelly24 wrote:
I don't think that's all there is to his game. He's an above average passer and is a really good ballhandler and a surprisingly solid defender. He's got amazing touch off the backboard and is an incredible finisher for his size. But, when it comes to breaking people down off the dribble, getting by defenders and just being a night in and night out scoring superstar in the vein of LeBron, Kobe, Harden, KD, MJ, DWade, etc. he is significantly behind. When he isn't hitting more than three three pointers, Steph usually looks kind of pedestrian. You won't see him showcase a diverse array of shot-making or get to the line like 20 times, etc. In the 2016 finals it was actually crazy how normal he looked at times. There's no way you can scheme the other guys out like that.


Then I suggest you watch the 13 and 14 versions of Curry. This was before the Kerr-system came in that put him in primarily an off-ball roll to catalyze the Warriors's movement based offense. He played the traditional heliocentric high pick and roll basketball that the other superstars do and took the Warriors to six games against the Spurs and seven against the Clippers, both of whom were contenders. The Warriors then were known as a perennially losing team and featured the likes of Jarred Jack and David Lee instead of Draymond and Klay.

If your point is that Curry's play tends to have more volatility than say Lebron's, then I would agree with you. But I think it's disingenuous to judge players soley by their poor series. All superstars have had them. The difference with Curry, I think, is that it stands out more because he doesn't look the part, whereas the other guys do, so the thought when he struggles isn't "wow, look at the great defense being played on him to limit him" but "hmm...he looks like he can't physically impose himself". But there are multiple series, among all those players you listed, where they have struggled to score effectively and efficiently against great defenses.

Moreover, a key thing that makes Curry particularly more difficult to judge is that his off-ball play is unlike any that we've ever seen (save for maybe Reggie, whose impact has also traditionally been underappreciated), so his actual impact on the game tends to be more understated than his production would indicate, in a way that isn't the case with ball-dominant players.

And if we're talking scoring production in the playoffs compared to his superstar contemporaries, he sits at third (Lebron and KD ahead of him) in points per 100 possessions and is 1st in scoring efficiency.
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Re: Stephen Curry has been totally exposed 

Post#1220 » by michaelm » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:16 am

Peregrine01 wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
I don't think that's all there is to his game. He's an above average passer and is a really good ballhandler and a surprisingly solid defender. He's got amazing touch off the backboard and is an incredible finisher for his size. But, when it comes to breaking people down off the dribble, getting by defenders and just being a night in and night out scoring superstar in the vein of LeBron, Kobe, Harden, KD, MJ, DWade, etc. he is significantly behind. When he isn't hitting more than three three pointers, Steph usually looks kind of pedestrian. You won't see him showcase a diverse array of shot-making or get to the line like 20 times, etc. In the 2016 finals it was actually crazy how normal he looked at times. There's no way you can scheme the other guys out like that.


Then I suggest you watch the 13 and 14 versions of Curry. This was before the Kerr-system came in that put him in primarily an off-ball roll to catalyze the Warriors's movement based offense. He played the traditional heliocentric high pick and roll basketball that the other superstars do and took the Warriors to six games against the Spurs and seven against the Clippers, both of whom were contenders. The Warriors then were known as a perennially losing team and featured the likes of Jarred Jack and David Lee instead of Draymond and Klay.

If your point is that Curry's play tends to have more volatility than say Lebron's, then I would agree with you. But I think it's disingenuous to judge players soley by their poor series. All superstars have had them. The difference with Curry, I think, is that it stands out more because he doesn't look the part, whereas the other guys do, so the thought when he struggles isn't "wow, look at the great defense being played on him to limit him" but "hmm...he looks like he can't physically impose himself". But there are multiple series, among all those players you listed, where they have struggled to score effectively and efficiently against great defenses.

Moreover, a key thing that makes Curry particularly more difficult to judge is that his off-ball play is unlike any that we've ever seen (save for maybe Reggie, whose impact has also traditionally been underappreciated), so his actual impact on the game tends to be more understated than his production would indicate, in a way that isn't the case with ball-dominant players.

And if we're talking scoring production in the playoffs compared to his superstar contemporaries, he sits at third (Lebron and KD ahead of him) in points per 100 possessions and is 1st in scoring efficiency.

He is a good iso player with an appropriately structured team, but of course with his size and athleticism doesn’t have the range of iso options absolute physical freaks like LeBron and KD have. If those guys don’t have enough “help” though, however gaudy their personal statistics lose in the play-offs their teams still do.

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