Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[TGW]

A lot of reports regarding Miami’s interest in Beal. Ready to make an offer apparently.

Achiuwa, Herro, Robinson+picks seems like the most realistic deal at this point. Very meh

Yeah, the Heat don't have anything I want, and the players they are willing to make available are not guys I'd built a team around.

Miami is one of the many teams in the wishful thinking category, they do not have the assets.

I would drop the Westbrick sandwich on them. They want Beal...then eat our crap contract in addition to giving us Herro and Achiewa.

[gambitx777]

There isn't a cap possibly way to do that I don't think.

A lot of reports regarding Miami’s interest in Beal. Ready to make an offer apparently.

Achiuwa, Herro, Robinson+picks seems like the most realistic deal at this point. Very meh

Yeah, the Heat don't have anything I want, and the players they are willing to make available are not guys I'd built a team around.

Miami is one of the many teams in the wishful thinking category, they do not have the assets.

I would drop the Westbrick sandwich on them. They want Beal...then eat our crap contract in addition to giving us Herro and Achiewa.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[TGW]

There isn't a cap possibly way to do that I don't think.

Yeah, the Heat don't have anything I want, and the players they are willing to make available are not guys I'd built a team around.

Miami is one of the many teams in the wishful thinking category, they do not have the assets.

I would drop the Westbrick sandwich on them. They want Beal...then eat our crap contract in addition to giving us Herro and Achiewa.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7382856

[payitforward]

...Robinson is cheap & good. ...

Robinson is cheap and good this year. Next year he will be expensive and good.
You were opposed to the team spending $13M a year to lock up a 27-year-old role player like Bertans. Why in the world would you think it's a good idea to do the same thing again? Only this time, it'll probably be more like $16M a year, and the team, without Beal will be even further from contention.

Yes, you are right.... &, in fact I'm contradicting myself, since in another post I called for us to get the maximum back in the form of picks....

The mile-high view is that Westbrook's contract -- $133m guaranted over 3 years -- pretty much guarantees that we can only really get better by way of guys on rookie contracts. Was the same situation when it was Wall's contract -- but now we have one fewer guy coming to us w/ a rookie contract.

Bertans' contract makes the situation that much worse.

[gambitx777]

But that's not a realistic trade.they what wouldn't be a better team with that team. They are giving up too much depth and really yeah they still have a big three in bam jimmy beal then westbrook as a 4th wheel and robinson and nun. they are just giving up too much depth to replace on the free agent buy out market with minimum deals. Imo I don't think it's doable and then to still win even with a big 3 and a half plus two goo role players.

There isn't a cap possibly way to do that I don't think.

I would drop the Westbrick sandwich on them. They want Beal...then eat our crap contract in addition to giving us Herro and Achiewa.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7382856

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

Jeez, did not realize Duncan was quite so old. He will be 27 before the season is over and as stated, he'll be a free agent in the summer.

That almost makes it a deal that would require three teams--the Wiz gain little from being forced into paying a 27 year old Duncan Robinson market value in the summer. I'd want to combine Bertans and Robinson and send them elsewhere. That's a ton of shooting value to offer. The two combined might offer quite a return, especially if we take a bad contract back.

[nate33]

Jeez, did not realize Duncan was quite so old. He will be 27 before the season is over and as stated, he'll be a free agent in the summer.

That almost makes it a deal that would require three teams--the Wiz gain little from being forced into paying a 27 year old Duncan Robinson market value in the summer. I'd want to combine Bertans and Robinson and send them elsewhere. That's a ton of shooting value to offer. The two combined might offer quite a return, especially if we take a bad contract back.

Combining them detracts from both value because nobody really needs both.

Just trade Robinson. We are sure to get a mid 1st round pick back, or maybe two late 1sts.

It might make sense to also trade Bertans (the Celtics have a big enough TPE) but I don't think that that decision has anything to do with the Robinson trade.

[Dat2U]

Why do we not want Duncan Robinson? Not young enough? Not high enough upside. I can think of 29 teams outside of Miami that could use a shooter like him but he's not good enough for a Wizards rebuild? Did we need to ensure Troy Brown had enough minutes & shots?

I was wondering the same thing myself -- Robinson is cheap & good. & his best position is the 2. Given that we're trading Beal, I don't see any reason we wouldn't keep him. Certainly, I wouldn't feel compelled to trade him right away, as he looks like a player who will be worth more not less within say a year.

I also don't see how Avdija, Bertans or Hachimura are relevant to the question. Or Troy Brown for that matter....

We're a rebuilding team (certainly if we trade Beal!); I wouldn't be against having Mathews & Duncan Robinson as our main rotation at the 2 for a while....

Robinson is cheap and good this year. Next year he will be expensive and good.

You were opposed to the team spending $13M a year to lock up a 27-year-old role player like Bertans. Why in the world would you think it's a good idea to do the same thing again? Only this time, it'll probably be more like $16M a year, and the team, without Beal will be even further from contention.

After trading Beal, this team will not be in position to be paying full price for veteran role players.

Robinson is in his 2nd full season and doesnt even have 100 games under his belt! He's not an older vet. He's the exact type of role player I want surrounding my high draft picks with. Guys that can play off the ball, space the floor and give effort 100% of the time. I fail to see the value in dumping Robinson to get a late pick who will probably never be as good as Robinson is.

[penbeast0]

How would you feel about Beal (and Ish) for Isaacs, Fultz, and Fournier plus a couple of 1sts. Orlando goes for it with Vucevic, Beal, and Gordon, the Wiz stock up on injured players with potential and get a big that, when he returns, can actually play defense to go with Bryant, Bertrans, or Rui.

It's a serious tank job and a perfect team for Brooks since it's about looking at young talent and doesn't matter if we make the right in game moves to win games.

[Dark Faze]

How would you feel about Beal (and Ish) for Isaacs, Fultz, and Fournier plus a couple of 1sts. Orlando goes for it with Vucevic, Beal, and Gordon, the Wiz stock up on injured players with potential and get a big that, when he returns, can actually play defense to go with Bryant, Bertrans, or Rui.

It's a serious tank job and a perfect team for Brooks since it's about looking at young talent and doesn't matter if we make the right in game moves to win games.

Magic wouldn't do anything close to it without Beal signing an extension. Risk of him leaving would be too high.

[prime1time]

I was wondering the same thing myself -- Robinson is cheap & good. & his best position is the 2. Given that we're trading Beal, I don't see any reason we wouldn't keep him. Certainly, I wouldn't feel compelled to trade him right away, as he looks like a player who will be worth more not less within say a year.

I also don't see how Avdija, Bertans or Hachimura are relevant to the question. Or Troy Brown for that matter....

We're a rebuilding team (certainly if we trade Beal!); I wouldn't be against having Mathews & Duncan Robinson as our main rotation at the 2 for a while....

Robinson is cheap and good this year. Next year he will be expensive and good.

You were opposed to the team spending $13M a year to lock up a 27-year-old role player like Bertans. Why in the world would you think it's a good idea to do the same thing again? Only this time, it'll probably be more like $16M a year, and the team, without Beal will be even further from contention.

After trading Beal, this team will not be in position to be paying full price for veteran role players.

Robinson is in his 2nd full season and doesnt even have 100 games under his belt! He's not an older vet. He's the exact type of role player I want surrounding my high draft picks with. Guys that can play off the ball, space the floor and give effort 100% of the time. I fail to see the value in dumping Robinson to get a late pick who will probably never be as good as Robinson is.

His skillset is redundant. Unless you plan to trade one of Advija or Rui when would he play and who would he guard? Also, Robinsons' the kind of player whose talent is maximized on a team with on a contending team. He has more value to a team like the Bucks than or the Lakers than to the Wizards.

[prime1time]

Let's be clear, if we trade Beal, the goal should be to bottom out and stockpile genuine elite talent. I.E. a player better than Beal. Duncan Robinson would be useless on a team like that. I also think if we trade Beal, we should fire sale all of the other win-now pieces we have like Bertans. I would think about packaging whatever we got back from Beal to trade Westbrook. I would expect a minimum of 3 straight high lottery picks at least. I would also advocate for not extending above average talent (De'Aaron Fox/Colin Sexton/Marvin Bagley etc). I would prefer to just be bad until we got an elite player.

[Dat2U]

Let's be clear, if we trade Beal, the goal should be to bottom out and stockpile genuine elite talent. I.E. a player better than Beal...

I think its pretty damn hard to get a player of Beal's caliber. I don't know too many guys capable of averaging an efficient 35 ppg in the NBA right now.

[Dat2U]

How would you feel about Beal (and Ish) for Isaacs, Fultz, and Fournier plus a couple of 1sts. Orlando goes for it with Vucevic, Beal, and Gordon, the Wiz stock up on injured players with potential and get a big that, when he returns, can actually play defense to go with Bryant, Bertrans, or Rui.

It's a serious tank job and a perfect team for Brooks since it's about looking at young talent and doesn't matter if we make the right in game moves to win games.

Magic wouldn't do anything close to it without Beal signing an extension. Risk of him leaving would be too high.

Shouldn't it be the Wizards that are saying hell no here? A torn ACL for a guard that can't shoot and recent knee surgery for an injury prone wing? How is this even a plausible suggestion?

[DCZards]

Let's be clear, if we trade Beal, the goal should be to bottom out and stockpile genuine elite talent. I.E. a player better than Beal. Duncan Robinson would be useless on a team like that. I also think if we trade Beal, we should fire sale all of the other win-now pieces we have like Bertans. I would think about packaging whatever we got back from Beal to trade Westbrook. I would expect a minimum of 3 straight high lottery picks at least. I would also advocate for not extending above average talent (De'Aaron Fox/Colin Sexton/Marvin Bagley etc). I would prefer to just be bad until we got an elite player.

An elite player, imo, is someone that ranks among the top 5 or so players in the NBA—and obtaining a player like that isn’t easy. Elite players (Doncic, Giannis, Durant, Lebron, A. Davis, Curry) come along about once every 4-5 years, and you have to be real lucky to be in a position to draft him. (Maybe you have a different definition of an "elite" player.)

Even three straight high lottery picks doesn't guarantee you an "elite" player.

No elite player is going to sign with a “bad” Zards team or demand to be traded to one. And even if you somehow draft, sign or trade for an elite player that one player alone is not going to turn a bad team into a contender.

So it’s important that you still try to field a good (or at least middling) team even as you wait on (and wish for) that elite player. You really don’t want to ever settle for being a “bad” team because that badness could last for years and years.

P.S.: Beal is the closest thing that the Zards have had to an elite player in a decade or more. The goal should be to build around BB…until such time that he demands to be traded or indicates that he doesn’t intend to sign an extension.

[prime1time]

Let's be clear, if we trade Beal, the goal should be to bottom out and stockpile genuine elite talent. I.E. a player better than Beal. Duncan Robinson would be useless on a team like that. I also think if we trade Beal, we should fire sale all of the other win-now pieces we have like Bertans. I would think about packaging whatever we got back from Beal to trade Westbrook. I would expect a minimum of 3 straight high lottery picks at least. I would also advocate for not extending above average talent (De'Aaron Fox/Colin Sexton/Marvin Bagley etc). I would prefer to just be bad until we got an elite player.

An elite player, imo, is someone that ranks among the top 5 or so players in the NBA—and obtaining a player like that isn’t easy. Elite players (Doncic, Giannis, Durant, Lebron, A. Davis, Curry) come along about once every 4-5 years, and you have to be real lucky to be in a position to draft him. (Maybe you have a different definition of an "elite" player.)

Even three straight high lottery picks doesn't guarantee you an "elite" player.

No elite player is going to sign with a “bad” Zards team or demand to be traded to one. And even if you somehow draft, sign or trade for an elite player that one player alone is not going to turn a bad team into a contender.

So it’s important that you still try to field a good (or at least middling) team even as you wait on (and wish for) that elite player. You really don’t want to ever settle for being a “bad” team because that badness could last for years and years.

P.S.: Beal is the closest thing that the Zards have had to an elite player in a decade or more. The goal should be to build around BB…until such time that he demands to be traded or indicates that he doesn’t intend to sign an extension.

We draft them. I’m saying I want to be bad until we draft one. Vs, extending a player that isn’t on that level and being back in this same spot 5 or 6 years from now.

[NatP4]

Duncan Robinson would be good on every team in the NBA. Elite shooters that get up a ton of 3s, play the right way, and are solid defensively, are massive net positives for a team. You would win a lot of games with Mathews, Robinson, and Bertans in your regular rotation. None of those guys are one dimensional either.

You can make an argument that Robinson was more of a net positive than Beal was in 2019-2020.

[TheBlackCzar]

Duncan Robinson would be good on every team in the NBA. Elite shooters that get up a ton of 3s, play the right way, and are solid defensively, are massive net positives for a team. You would win a lot of games with Mathews, Robinson, and Bertans in your regular rotation. None of those guys are one dimensional either.

You can make an argument that Robinson was more of a net positive than Beal was in 2019-2020.

And yet DR will never average 30ppg and he's just a shooter... Beal is all that and then some.... this obsession with metrics makes you lose site of common sense.....

[nate33]

Here's a twist on the Golden State trade. This one sends more useful win-now assets to Golden State, which would help to justify a Brooklyn style package of future picks.

Washington trades: Beal, Bertans, Lopez, Brown
Golden state trades: Wiggins, Oubre, Wiseman

Lopez replaces Wiseman at starting center which helps them in the short term. Bertans would really fill out their depth, doing the shooting that they had hoped Oubre would do. Brown replaces Wiggins production at a much lower price. And obviously, the centerpiece is Beal.

We were probably not going to resign Brown anyway. And if we're rebuilding, Bertans at his salary might be a negative. We will now have the cap room to absorb bad contracts for even more picks.

So now we look at the picks. The Wizards should get:
2021 Minnesota 1st (top 3 protected)
2021 Golden State 1st
2026 Golden State 1st
2022 1st rd pick swap
2023 1st rd pick swap
2025 1st rd pick swap
2027 1st rd pick swap
2021 Minnesota 2nd
2022 Golden State 2nd
2022 Toronto 2nd

Is that enough? Remember that by the 2026 draft, Curry will be 38, Klay 36, and Draymond 35. Even Beal will be 33. And they will have had no assets and no cap room to replenish their depth. Those picks swaps in 2025 and 2027 might be real valuable. And the 2026 pick is almost sure to be lotto pick.

[JAR69]

Nate - setting aside any other questions about this proposal, do we get any cap room to absorb other contracts? With Wiggins and Wiseman on the books for multiyear contracts, and assuming we still have Westbrook, I don't see the cap space opening up. It seems like all we gain (from a cap room perspective) is the equivalent of dumping Bertans, which I don't think even gets below the cap.

This is a good haul for Beal+. But I don't think GS does it - it gives up too much. Brown and Lopez have little value. Bertans is worth a first. Beal is worth the rest of the picks/swaps, especially with us taking Oubre and Wiggins. But I don't think they would mortgage their future like this. Their cupboard would be Brooklyn-bare. With the other superteams out there, I don't think they truly believe they are likely to win another championship by adding Beal/Bertans. So I don't think they will think it is worthwhile.

And on our end, I'd very much like to avoid contracts like Wiggins' in trading Beal. With Westbrook, we are already handcuffed for the next 2 seasons. Having another big, immovable contract on the books makes it harder to make moves to help the rebuild.