The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[Stanford]

I have to say, it's amazing reading local media and on this boards how fast people turned on Simmons only AFTER the trade didn't happen.

You can't be serious

[Black Mage]

I have to say, it's amazing reading local media and on this boards how fast people turned on Simmons only AFTER the trade didn't happen.

You can't be serious

Absolutely. Have you not listened to some of the sports radio takes since the Harden deal didn't happen? The fire that came from twitter folks and beat writers that before were talking about how Simmons needs to be built around and he's just 24 and just waiting to be unlocked. Even on these boards there were a smattering of folks that flipped pretty quick.

Yes, there are those of us that had come to these conclusions before the trade, but those that were staunch defenders have dumped him pretty fast it seems.

[phifans]

This is the scenario ive mentioned before.

Ben would be forced out of this team if the Harden deal didnt happen (thats why i said we need to put Ben on the table).

There will just going to be too much pressure.

If we dont trade him and this thing continues, he’s going to ask to be traded.

Imagine how louder it’s going to be once we have our first or second round exit.

The Harden deal was more like a flash point for Ben's future here. Considering how much sources we have invested in him and how little progress he has been made on offense these years ... now Brett Brown is gone and the trade is inevitable ... when people around here finally refuse to delude themselves anymore ... after the whole league has figured out what his real value is ... unfortunately.

[phifans]

I have to say, it's amazing reading local media and on this boards how fast people turned on Simmons only AFTER the trade didn't happen.

You can't be serious

Absolutely. Have you not listened to some of the sports radio takes since the Harden deal didn't happen? The fire that came from twitter folks and beat writers that before were talking about how Simmons needs to be built around and he's just 24 and just waiting to be unlocked. Even on these boards there were a smattering of folks that flipped pretty quick.

Yes, there are those of us that had come to these conclusions before the trade, but those that were staunch defenders have dumped him pretty fast it seems.

The support of Ben Simmons are mostly based on fantasy land. God knows "how great he should be" and the prospect is so beautiful to persuade guys who support him(included me) to ignore the truth that he has never ever showed he could reach it. The environment has changed dramatically since BB left. The newcomers who has no close ties with Ben are more realistic. They would not be hesitated to trade him when right deal comes.

[sixers4real]

I’ve been very supportive of Ben Simmons since he was drafted, but 4 months ago I said when the next superstar asks to be traded, we have to trade Simmons +++ for a superstar.
We tried, it did not happen, unfortunately.

Ben Simmons is a perfect 3rd best player on a championship team. He is elite defender, good in transition, elite athlete.

Since we failed to get harden (I think we did, could’ve added a couple of swaps and get the deal done), I would not want to trade Simmons for Zach Lavine or role players. Not a game changing deals.

I’d probably wait for another superstar to become available or get someone like Lavine or Beal not trading Ben Simmons.
A great offensive player will take so much pressure off Ben Simmons.

[76ciology]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

[davesilver]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

On a championship team, no.

[kuclas]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

Ben Simmons is way better then Randle. This has got to be a joke right?

People just look at stats. Randle is better this year. It’s his 7th season. But he’s still jacking up 17 shots a game. Ben shoots 11 times game. That’s just his dna. He doesn’t like to take 20 shots a game. Of course he’s afraid to shoot outside of 5 feet.

But remember Randle is first option for knicks now. When Embiid was injured last season. Simmons scoring went up. Everyone remembers the game vs Lakers (the night before Kobe died). Simmons was fantastic 28/10/8. He had similar games without Embiid

And I’m not even a Simmons fan. I’m an Embiid fan. But let’s just not kid ourselves saying Randle is better. He’s not.

As for the harden trade. Simmons plus thybulle should have been enough. Sixers apparenrly added another first. But Houston wanted more and more. If it were just Simmons thybulle plus one first. Sixers pull the trigger. We all know Houston wanted multiple picks plus they got greedy wanting Simmons thybulle plus maxey plus more picks.

Who’s gonna to give Houston that? No one. Especially thybulle and maxey on cheap rookie deals.

Look. Nets weren’t gonna to pay Jarrett Allen big money next season. That’s why he was expendable. And levert is nice player (before kidney diagnosis) but Nets deal was way worse than the sixers original offer.

Houston felt they needed to do the deal ASAP with harden becoming more of a cancer. Boston and sixers were crossing the line in the sand. They wouldn’t add more pieces. Who would? So Houston stuck with Nets deal. And took it.

[6ers83]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

No question

[spikeslovechild]

Tobias Harris is better then Simmons right now.

Thats right I said it.

[76ciology]

Tobias Harris is better then Simmons right now.

Thats right I said it.

Friend, im saving that for later.

Ben is more overpaid than Tobias, ok there I said it.

[sixers4real]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

Based on 10+ games of this season? Yes.

Would I trade Simmons for Randle straight up right now? No.

[76ciology]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

On a championship team, no.

Why do you think teams value go to guys for playoff teams?

Because the games are designed to be close and the league wants the game to be a battle of clutch shot over clutch shot.

Randle is not just a decent go to guy. But he also can post, Iso and be part of the PnR.

When the game is close, you have more use for Randle than Ben. Ben is only good on one side of the floor. On offense, and we’ve seen this since 2018-2019, he’s better off at the dunker spot.

You need a basket or a 3, you even have to take him out.

Saying Ben is a winning player over Randle sounds more like saying you want MKG over Carmelo Anthony to me.

I’d rather have a good scorer with slightly below average defense than a horrible scorer with elite defense. At the guard and wing position.

[phifans]

I think these questions about who is better between Ben and X doesn't get the point. Most of Ben's value are coming from his "talent" and "what he could be" that's why his value are rapidly diminishing as fewer and fewer people believe he could reach it as he is aging with no improvement

[76ciology]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

Based on 10+ games of this season? Yes.

Would I trade Simmons for Randle straight up right now? No.

I would. But I’ll ask a couple of picks back in return.

[sixers4real]

So you guys agree now that Julius Randle is better than Ben Simmons now right?

Based on 10+ games of this season? Yes.

Would I trade Simmons for Randle straight up right now? No.

I would. But I’ll ask a couple of picks back in return.

It seems you’re just desperate to make any trade at this point to get exited.

[76ciology]

Based on 10+ games of this season? Yes.

Would I trade Simmons for Randle straight up right now? No.

I would. But I’ll ask a couple of picks back in return.

It seems you’re just desperate to make any trade at this point to get exited.

If you notice, im getting good value back in return in all my ben simmons trade proposals.

Im not wasting assets like trading Ben for a group of role players or trading assets for Lowry.

Just think about how good our team would be by adding another 20ppg player in Randle.

Then you have a couple of picks from the knicks, where you can package with Shake, expirings and maybe add a couple of picks more for Bradley Beal.

[DCasey91]

I would. But I’ll ask a couple of picks back in return.

It seems you’re just desperate to make any trade at this point to get exited.

If you notice, im getting good value back in return in all my ben simmons trade proposals.

Im not wasting assets like trading Ben for a group of role players or trading assets for Lowry.

Just think about how good our team would be by adding another 20ppg player in Randle.

Then you have a couple of picks from the knicks, where you can package with Shake, expirings and maybe add a couple of picks more for Bradley Beal.

I wouldn’t trade Ben for Randle not a chance. It would be a horrible fit next to Embiid.I’m
Very much Embiid centric in putting together the teams max ceiling.

4 out offense with Embiid in the post surrounded by shooters/play makings seems to me the best offense going forward in the playoffs for this team.

Milton
Green
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

Seems to me like the best lineup this team can muster. If Simmons keeps regressing though then even inserting Curry at the end can pay off.

I’d only trade Ben for one of Beal/Lavine as we def need an elite offensive perimeter option in the half court and I’d be hestitant to give up Ben for Lavine
If there was a chance to get Lavine without Ben I’m 100% on board.


Hypothetically:

Curry
Lavine
Simmons
Markkanen
Embiid can work very well too

(Milton & Harris for Lavine & Markkanen) we lose out on defence so it’s a juggling act trying to balance out this team offense vs defence.

I’d say for me go all in on top 3 defence and get to an acceptable lvl of offence that doesn’t breakdown in the playoffs. That’s my goal anyway.

One of Hakeems understated problems in his centric system playoffs was the lack of playmaking because he wasn’t an advanced passer very similar to Embiid not so much the scoring department. (They had godly defence though we have that capability too with a two all nba defensive players at the bare minimum covering the most important space on the court perimeter and the rim.)

[stormi]

Julius Randle is an atrocious basketball player. What's going on in here...

[76ciology]

It seems you’re just desperate to make any trade at this point to get exited.

If you notice, im getting good value back in return in all my ben simmons trade proposals.

Im not wasting assets like trading Ben for a group of role players or trading assets for Lowry.

Just think about how good our team would be by adding another 20ppg player in Randle.

Then you have a couple of picks from the knicks, where you can package with Shake, expirings and maybe add a couple of picks more for Bradley Beal.

I wouldn’t trade Ben for Randle not a chance. It would be a horrible fit next to Embiid.I’m
Very much Embiid centric in putting together the teams max ceiling.

4 out offense with Embiid in the post surrounded by shooters/play makings seems to me the best offense going forward in the playoffs for this team.

Milton
Green
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

Seems to me like the best lineup this team can muster. If Simmons keeps regressing though then even inserting Curry at the end can pay off.

I’d only trade Ben for one of Beal/Lavine as we def need an elite offensive perimeter option in the half court and I’d be hestitant to give up Ben for Lavine
If there was a chance to get Lavine without Ben I’m 100% on board.


Hypothetically:

Curry
Lavine
Simmons
Markkanen
Embiid can work very well too

(Milton & Harris for Lavine & Markkanen) we lose out on defence so it’s a juggling act trying to balance out this team offense vs defence.

I’d say for me go all in on top 3 defence and get to an acceptable lvl of offence that doesn’t breakdown in the playoffs. That’s my goal anyway.

One of Hakeems understated problems in his centric system playoffs was the lack of playmaking because he wasn’t an advanced passer very similar to Embiid not so much the scoring department. (They had godly defence though we have that capability too with a two all nba defensive players at the bare minimum covering the most important space on the court perimeter and the rim.)

Dont get me wrong.

My premise was not really about trading Ben for Randle. It’s more on who’s the better player.

I wouldnt want Randle, given I can find other more preferable players.

But nevertheless, i do think Randle on our team would make us better than Ben. Would I want it? No, because again I think we can do better.