Ball Don't Lie: The LaMelo Ball Thread

James Gatz · Post #1101 » by **James Gatz** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:41 pm

Looked it up today and LaMelo is shooting 46% on floaters so far this year. 7 for 15.

https://go.nba.com/pltz

JMAC3 · Post #1102 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:47 pm

James Gatz wrote:Looked it up today and LaMelo is shooting 46% on floaters so far this year. 7 for 15.

https://go.nba.com/pltz

Good stuff, I know everyone on the board was freaking out because the first 2-3 he tried were horrible.

What it comes down to for me is I view this as alternative to him stopping and shooting a midrange and I believe their are some people who view it as an alternative to him going for a layup.

If you compare it to the midrange jumpshot, it can be seen as better because he can shoot it quicker and it gives the defense less time to recover and get a good contest on the shot.

James Gatz · Post #1103 » by **James Gatz** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:52 pm

Another interesting thing to note is LaMelo is shooting way better from deep 3s. Probably due to those shots being more open.

In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots. Looking like both these and the floater are something he should keep in his game.

https://imgur.com/JS2hdq0

https://go.nba.com/2los

James Gatz · Post #1104 » by **James Gatz** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:53 pm

James Gatz wrote:Another interesting thing to note is LaMelo is shooting way better from deep 3s. Probably due to those shots being more open.

In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots. Looking like both these and the floater are something he should keep in his game.

https://imgur.com/JS2hdq0

https://go.nba.com/2los

Worth noting his percentage goes up to 54.5% when you take out the half court heaves.

https://go.nba.com/4473

Braggins · Post #1105 » by **Braggins** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:03 pm

James Gatz wrote:
James Gatz wrote:Another interesting thing to note is LaMelo is shooting way better from deep 3s. Probably due to those shots being more open.

In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots. Looking like both these and the floater are something he should keep in his game.

https://imgur.com/JS2hdq0

https://go.nba.com/2los

Worth noting his percentage goes up to 54.5% when you take out the half court heaves.

https://go.nba.com/4473

Melo is not shy about seriously trying to get off those half court heaves at the end of quarters. Its refreshing and Ive been meaning to mention it in regards to his percentages. Its still not a huge number of shots, but he'll aggressively get those shots off even with guys draped all over him.

JMAC3 · Post #1106 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:06 pm

The biggest thing with his shooting thus far is you can tell the scouting report is to get a contest on him because guys are constantly closing out on him hard when he pump fakes. This opens up a lot of crevices for him to slid into and create passing angles for easier shots. If teams start to lay off him and dare him to shoot then that is when the problem will occur.

I knew he wasn't going to shoot it 40% from deep, but with his style of play he doesn't need to.

Braggins · Post #1107 » by **Braggins** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:07 pm

Ya, the most important thing is that defenders respect his shot. They're certainly not guarding him like hes a knock down shooter or anything, but they aren't daring him to shoot.

SWedd523 · Post #1108 » by **SWedd523** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:56 pm

iconoclastism wrote:Dallas Mavericks star Luka Doncic on triple-double in loss: I was being selfish

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30731793/dallas-mavericks-star-luka-doncic-triple-double-loss-was-being-selfish

When you have teammates who want to pass you the ball and clear space or in the Bobcats' case, ordered to, you can get a triple double here and there. BTW, steals are not defense. It is lingering around waiting to pick on the offense. After 20 tries, you are bound to get 3 or 4 of them.

Not sure what you're trying to get at lol

What does Doncic have anything to do with the Hornets or Ball?

What do the Bobcats have anything to do with the Hornets or Ball?

Why are you talking about steals in relation to Doncic, the Bobcats, the Hornets, or Ball?

Post #1109 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:40 pm

JMAC3 wrote:...I believe their are some people who view it (floaters) as an alternative to him going for a layup.

Guilty as charged!

I have been vocal about how much I love LaMelo's driving and layup ability. He is SO good at it and he uses his length while understanding space so well. Plus he can finish with both hands as well.

I also think it gives him the opportunity to draw fouls (I think he's been fouled on several of his drives but they are not being called - rookie bias maybe - but I don't think that will be the case much longer).

Post #1110 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:48 pm

James Gatz wrote:In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots.

What I was opposed to was saying he had the green light to do the things he has done in the past - like cross half court and just heave up a shot or randomly toss up shots in a way that seemed like he was just out to get his.

He's only taken a handful of bad shots so far, shots that make most people shudder when he takes them. For the most part he's picking and choosing his spots and taking them within the flow of the offense - like I said, outside a handful of times when it's been poor shot selection.

If he wants to catch and shoot an open three from a foot or two behind the 3pt line within the flow of the offense I'm good with him taking them, but they also shouldn't be mainstay of his offense when he has so much more he can do and do well.

JMAC3 · Post #1111 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:03 pm

BigSlam wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:...I believe their are some people who view it (floaters) as an alternative to him going for a layup.

Guilty as charged!

I have been vocal about how much I love LaMelo's driving and layup ability. He is SO good at it and he uses his length while understanding space so well. Plus he can finish with both hands as well.

I also think it gives him the opportunity to draw fouls (I think he's been fouled on several of his drives but they are not being called - rookie bias maybe - but I don't think that will be the case much longer).

The main difference here though is, he is getting to the rim 2x the amount Haliburton, Hayes, Anthony are.... but he is shooting a lower percentage. If anything that indicates he should be doing more of these floaters instead of trying to force the action into a contested layup attempt. Also, he never really shoots midrange shots, because he is opting for these shots instead. The best midrange shooters in league make less than 50% of those shots typically and that is what he is shooting this floater at so I have no issues thus far.

It is all about balance.

Post #1112 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:13 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:...I believe their are some people who view it (floaters) as an alternative to him going for a layup.

Guilty as charged!

I have been vocal about how much I love LaMelo's driving and layup ability. He is SO good at it and he uses his length while understanding space so well. Plus he can finish with both hands as well.

I also think it gives him the opportunity to draw fouls (I think he's been fouled on several of his drives but they are not being called - rookie bias maybe - but I don't think that will be the case much longer).

The main difference here though is, he is getting to the rim 2x the amount Haliburton, Hayes, Anthony are.... but he is shooting a lower percentage. If anything that indicates he should be doing more of these floaters instead of trying to force the action into a contested layup attempt. Also, he never really shoots midrange shots, because he is opting for these shots instead. The best midrange shooters in league make less than 50% of those shots typically and that is what he is shooting this floater at so I have no issues thus far.

It is all about balance.

If the times he’s been fouled on those drives had been called as fouls his shooting percentage at the rim would be much improved.

Same applies to his half court buzzer beater 3’s - they bring down his 3P%. It sucks the NBA applies those shots to any players shooting %’d IMO.

James Gatz · Post #1113 » by **James Gatz** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:49 pm

BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots.

What I was opposed to was saying he had the green light to do the things he has done in the past

If he wants to catch and shoot an open three from a foot or two behind the 3pt line within the flow of the offense I'm good with him taking them, but they also shouldn't be mainstay of his offense when he has so much more he can do and do well.

This isn't really accurate. I was wondering if I was misremembering so I went back to where it was being discussed. I agree that his shot selection has been improved from where it was at in NBL play. The shots that were by the worst were his off the dribble early shot clock 3s. Luckily, he's only taken a very few of those this year.

BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:...I want him firing away, with better shot selection, so teams have to respect him from 3.

Teams don't respect him taking 30 footers, they WANT him taking 30 footers. HIs results on these types of shots are so poor that it is advantageous to the opposing team for him to take them.

BigSlam wrote:He needs to completely remove the Dame/Steph/Tre shots from the logo to the half court unless it’s an absolute last resort because the play has broken down and there are 3 or less seconds on the shot clock.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post #1114 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:09 pm

James Gatz wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots.

What I was opposed to was saying he had the green light to do the things he has done in the past

If he wants to catch and shoot an open three from a foot or two behind the 3pt line within the flow of the offense I'm good with him taking them, but they also shouldn't be mainstay of his offense when he has so much more he can do and do well.

This isn't really accurate. I was wondering if I was misremembering so I went back to where it was being discussed. I agree that his shot selection has been improved from where it was at in NBL play. The shots that were by the worst were his off the dribble early shot clock 3s. Luckily, he's only taken a very few of those this year.

BigSlam wrote:
James Gatz wrote:...I want him firing away, with better shot selection, so teams have to respect him from 3.

Teams don't respect him taking 30 footers, they WANT him taking 30 footers. HIs results on these types of shots are so poor that it is advantageous to the opposing team for him to take them.

BigSlam wrote:He needs to completely remove the Dame/Steph/Tre shots from the logo to the half court unless it’s an absolute last resort because the play has broken down and there are 3 or less seconds on the shot clock.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right - Dame and Steph cross the half court and launch a shot, as they can.

Guys like Melo should not.

Nothing has changed in my feeling about that.

Melo hasn’t really done that in the NBA. He did in the NBL though and did a WHOLE lot more in high school

Hornet Mania · Post #1115 » by **Hornet Mania** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:29 pm

I have no complaints about Melo's shot selection. I do hope he's not complacent and aggressively works to improve his shot in the offseason (consistent footwork especially) but that's not something he can fix in practice during the week.

I'm also with Slam on preferring that Melo keep attacking the rim instead of settling for floaters. He has legitimately been fouled on quite a few of them, those calls will come he just needs to keep grinding until the refs arbitrarily decide he's paid his dues and enforce the rules. The floaters have been better than I expected but his finishing ability is so good when he's not getting mauled that imo attacking the rim is currently his best option especially with the bonus of possibly earning a trip to the line.

Post #1116 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:22 am

James Gatz wrote:Another interesting thing to note is LaMelo is shooting way better from deep 3s. Probably due to those shots being more open.

In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots. Looking like both these and the floater are something he should keep in his game.

https://imgur.com/JS2hdq0

https://go.nba.com/2los

Probably a little bit low in sample size to make conclusions at this stage on shot selection.

James Gatz · Post #1117 » by **James Gatz** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:25 am

luciano-davidwesley wrote:
James Gatz wrote:Another interesting thing to note is LaMelo is shooting way better from deep 3s. Probably due to those shots being more open.

In the off-season I got a lot of flack for saying he should have the green light to take these shots. Looking like both these and the floater are something he should keep in his game.

https://imgur.com/JS2hdq0

https://go.nba.com/2los

Probably a little bit low in sample size to make conclusions at this stage on shot selection.

100%

It's far too early but it is an interesting trend to keep an eye on.

GoBobs · Post #1118 » by **GoBobs** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:04 am

I don't mind the deep 3s. I am even ok with the dribble across half court and pop one, if he can make them at a good enough percentage. There are some other problems with that kind of shot though. No body else on the team gets to touch the ball and get in a good rythm. The defense on the other team doesn't have to work at all and it is pretty much giving them a free rest. We play at such a frantic pace that we make the game about endurance. We can't afford to give people free rest.

JMAC3 · Post #1119 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:04 pm

I know a couple people scrolled back in the Miles thread to find their initial takes. Here are some takes on LaMelo coming to Charlotte before it was official.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2012163

MPM · Post #1120 » by **MPM** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:16 pm

JMAC3 wrote:I know a couple people scrolled back in the Miles thread to find their initial takes. Here are some takes on LaMelo coming to Charlotte before it was official.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2012163

Yep - I had him firmly behind both OO and Haliburton. Would've taken either of them (plus Edwards/Wiseman) before LaMelo. Wasn't a fan pre-draft - felt he was more suited to the 5-10 range. Obviously, more than pleasantly surprised currently and happy to be wrong in the long-term.