Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[nate33]

I think Bertans to a contender is our only tradable asset.

And Boston has a TPE big enough to absorb him.

[nate33]

I have been watching a good deal of film on Goga Bitadze. In limited minutes, he has shown good defensive potential plus the ability to stretch the floor. IMO, he has a decent ceiling as a starter if coached properly.

Given Levert’s kidney issues, Indy may be interested in a trade for Troy Brown. Win-win situation for both franchises.

It's not a win-win if you think Brown Jr can develop into an above-average/good player.

Well, I think odds are Goga has better potential to develop as an above-average/good player than Troy.

I’m afraid Troy increasingly looks like the second coming of Evan Turner. In contrast, Goga has the potential to be top 15-20 center. Note that I say “potential” as there is always the risk he does not make it. For what is worth, he has been buried behind Sabonis and Turner with limited opportunities plus he has an additional year in a rookie scale contract.

Also, Brown is a year further along in his rookie deal. Goga still has two cheap years left after this one.

[nate33]

How Highly does Washington value Rui?

Is he attainable?

The organization loves him.

The fanbase is luke warm. He has talent, and definitely looks like a guy who will be able to score in this league. But he has poor awareness on help defense (he's fine as a one-on-one defender) and is a poor rebounder. If he doesn't improve in those facets of the game, then he is the next Jabari Parker/Julius Randall - putting up empty numbers that don't help you win.

On the other hand, he is reportedly an extremely hard worker and a very smart guy who happened to start playing basketball late in life. If he does improve on the instinctive side of things, he is potentially a star player. He has a perfect NBA body for a power forward and he is very coordinated. You can't teach that.

[payitforward]

I have been watching a good deal of film on Goga Bitadze. In limited minutes, he has shown good defensive potential plus the ability to stretch the floor. IMO, he has a decent ceiling as a starter if coached properly.

Given Levert’s kidney issues, Indy may be interested in a trade for Troy Brown. Win-win situation for both franchises.

??? Troy Brown is having a horrible start to the season, but he was good as a rookie & quite good last year. I wouldn't dream of taking Goga Bitadze for Troy Brown.

You would have to be doing a whole lot of eye-test-interpretation to make anything positive of Goga Bitadze in the NBA so far. He doesn't rebound, can't shoot (what ability to stretch the floor?), turns the ball over a fair amount, & commits a lot of fouls. He does block a lot of shots, but that's it for anything he does at average level -- or anywhere near average level.

If you compare his numbers last year to Moritz Wagner, he was way way worse -- & Moe was bad not good. Goga Bitadze is a bust.

Less than 500 minutes and we're calling him a bust at 20? ...

Yeah... that was stupid on my part -- sorry Frichuela!

A substantial overstatement, sloppy writing.

I should have written that "so far, Goga Bitadze looks like a bust." Which is why, really, what I want to know is what Frichuela is seeing in him. In his play, I mean. Because, to be sure, no drawing the curtain on a guy after 500 minutes.

...But we got 2600 minutes of evidence of Troy Brown not fitting in any lineups but your high on him because he rebounds well?

The single best predictor of the future is what happened in the recent past. Not 100%, & not even always the right predictor to choose -- but the single best one all the same. That's why we don't usually head back to the pizza place we didn't like last week.

A good example is that significant improvement from rookie year to second year is a strong predictor of NBA success overall, a great instance of how the recent past informs us. I'm sure you won't disagree. Again... it's not always reliable -- b/c nothing is.

I'm high on Troy Brown Jr. because, after pretty good rookie minutes, he played even better last year. &, yes, part of playing well is getting rebounds, yes. So, if for example I dislike Troy (or anyone) shooting a low % on 3's, then you bet I have to like Troy (or anyone) getting a lot of boards for someone at his position.

& your critique of Troy is too. You think he didn't "fit lineups," so he won't fit lineups.

Similarly, my critique of Goga Bitadze was based on the recent past. For example, Goga, who is a Center, got @ an extra .4 of a rebound per 40 minutes over Troy Brown last year.

How many times do you go back to the place where the pizza wasn't any good, because you think it has potential?

It can happen, to be sure -- & that's why I'd like to hear what Frichuela says about Goga.

[NatP4]

Look at what Deandre Hunter did today...

[payitforward]

How Highly does Washington value Rui?

Is he attainable?

The organization loves him.

The fanbase is luke warm. He has talent, and definitely looks like a guy who will be able to score in this league. But he has poor awareness on help defense (he's fine as a one-on-one defender) and is a poor rebounder. If he doesn't improve in those facets of the game, then he is the next Jabari Parker/Julius Randall - putting up empty numbers that don't help you win.

On the other hand, he is reportedly an extremely hard worker and a very smart guy who happened to start playing basketball late in life. If he does improve on the instinctive side of things, he is potentially a star player. He has a perfect NBA body for a power forward and he is very coordinated. You can't teach that.

Aside from the above, he has a ton of non-basketball value -- he brings an entire market that is more or less untapped!

TBH, for that reason above all others, I think it would be virtually impossible to acquire him in a trade right now.

[nate33]

Look at what Deandre Hunter did today...

?

He had 25 points on good shooting (eFG% about 70%) with 4 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 turnovers against probably the worst team in the league (Minnesota without KAT). It's a good game, but nothing to write home about.

[Frichuela]

On Goga, he was quite impressive as a teen playing a good deal of minutes at the Euroleague in the 2018-19 season. In 24 minutes, he averaged 12.1 pts, 6.4 reb and 2.3 blocks. He shot 60% (2pt), 31% (3pt) and 71% (FT).

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=006809&seasoncode=E2018

From the very few minutes played last season, it’s true his rebounding was below average at 8.1 rebounds per 36.
But he was excellent at blocks, averaging 2.8 blocks per 36. His DWS and DBPM were also quite good for a 1st year player.

I have no crystal ball, but my gut feeling is that Goga will prove rotation worthy if he gets a consistent 16-20 minutes a night to start with. His shooting form looks good too. It’s true he scored only 19% in 3s but averaged over 70% in FT shooting last season, closer to his Euroleague averages.

[gambitx777]

Kevin porter jr? Maybe take a flyer on the kid? I'd trade robinson for him but the money doesn't work.wonder where he might go I can see a few teams who traded tons of picks away wanting to take a flyer on him. Beta clippers the NYK could use him.

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[prime1time]

I'm not trading Brown Jr. for Goga Bidatze. Especially after only 11 games.

[Dat2U]

Kevin porter jr? Maybe take a flyer on the kid? I'd trade robinson for him but the money doesn't work.wonder where he might go I can see a few teams who traded tons of picks away wanting to take a flyer on him. Beta clippers the NYK could use him.

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Had problems at USC too I believe. Hes a knucklehead and at least were past those types under Shepp.

[Dat2U]

I'm not trading Brown Jr. for Goga Bidatze. Especially after only 11 games.

I'd consider it. I liked Goga alot coming out. One of my favorites in the draft last year. It was him, Herro & Clarke who I kept focusing on. He may just need time and opportunity.

[payitforward]

Look at what Deandre Hunter did today...

?

He had 25 points on good shooting (eFG% about 70%) with 4 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 turnovers against probably the worst team in the league (Minnesota without KAT). It's a good game, but nothing to write home about.

EFG% @63.5%. Still very good. Plus 6-7 on FTs. But...

...with the rest of his line, it wasn't even a good game overall! In 37 minutes, he managed 4 rebounds. He had 3 steals -- but he turned the ball over 6 times & committed 5 fouls.

Go down one line on the box score to Clint Capela -- now, he had an outstanding game!

[payitforward]

On Goga, he was quite impressive as a teen playing a good deal of minutes at the Euroleague in the 2018-19 season. In 24 minutes, he averaged 12.1 pts, 6.4 reb and 2.3 blocks. He shot 60% (2pt), 31% (3pt) and 71% (FT).

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=006809&seasoncode=E2018

From the very few minutes played last season, it’s true his rebounding was below average at 8.1 rebounds per 36.
But he was excellent at blocks, averaging 2.8 blocks per 36. His DWS and DBPM were also quite good for a 1st year player.

I have no crystal ball, but my gut feeling is that Goga will prove rotation worthy if he gets a consistent 16-20 minutes a night to start with. His shooting form looks good too. It’s true he scored only 19% in 3s but averaged over 70% in FT shooting last season, closer to his Euroleague averages.

Well... the good numbers are good, & the bad numbers are bad! But, you're calling the low numbers "below average" & the high numbers "excellent!" Suppose I said Goga was an awful rebounder tho his blocks were above average...?

So, it's best to drop the evaluative language or else be consistent. Overall, Goga put up far far below average numbers.

In fact, of the 35 rookies who played 330m or more last year. Goga was the 2d least productive of all 35. Now my boxscore rollup method may be different than someone else's, but to tell the truth -- he wouldn't be very different in any boxscore roll up. He just plain stunk.

Hey, maybe he'll get better -- I hope he does! I don't want any of these kids to fail, I really don't.

Like Troy Brown, he's very young -- in fact, he's only 8 days older than TBjr. But, he hasn't been anywhere near as good an NBA player. It's not even close, & I wouldn't dream of swapping the two guys -- which is where this little discussion started.

[payitforward]

I'm not trading Brown Jr. for Goga Bidatze. Especially after only 11 games.

I'd consider it. I liked Goga alot coming out. One of my favorites in the draft last year. It was him, Herro & Clarke who I kept focusing on. He may just need time and opportunity.

I liked him too. & once you like a guy, it's hard work to let go of your biases. There's always some "reason" if he under-performs.

But, of course, it's not about reasons, it's only about performance. & so far not so good for Goga.

Of course, I liked Clarke too. I wanted to trade down & get Brandon Clarke & Keldon Johnson (who is killing it for SA so far).

[WashWiz54]

Kevin porter jr? Maybe take a flyer on the kid? I'd trade robinson for him but the money doesn't work.wonder where he might go I can see a few teams who traded tons of picks away wanting to take a flyer on him. Beta clippers the NYK could use him.

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Had problems at USC too I believe. Hes a knucklehead and at least were past those types under Shepp.

To piggyback on this, do we really have a squad that would be right for someone like him? I don’t think so. We are currently a losing franchise with a star that while hasn’t said he wants out, clearly isn’t happy with losing. We would be setting ourselves up to create drama and I’m not letting someone like Kevin Porter be the reason we lose our star. Pass on him and let an established franchise take that risk.

[gambitx777]

Yeah I agree play we have a ton of young wings . Nets , clippers, maybe okc, def NYK , maybe even a team like the bucks or lakers.


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[NatP4]

Watching Wiseman right now. He has played 12 minutes. 12 freaking minutes, and has 5 fouls, 5 turnovers, and is -19. Warriors built a double digit deficit before benching Wiseman completely and coming all the way back from down 19 to win.

[Ruzious]

Watching Wiseman right now. He has played 12 minutes. 12 freaking minutes, and has 5 fouls, 5 turnovers, and is -19. Warriors built a double digit deficit before benching Wiseman completely and coming all the way back from down 19 to win.

He's a mess as a player right now. We can't do a trade with GS with him as the key piece. Btw, Oubre is still ridiculously immature - Reggie Miller was defending him for that technical foul, but he deserved it. He blows kisses after each 3 and does some kind of pose after every good play he makes. He played a good game though. Actually, I thought Eric Pachall was GS's best player.

[pcbothwel]

Watching Wiseman right now. He has played 12 minutes. 12 freaking minutes, and has 5 fouls, 5 turnovers, and is -19. Warriors built a double digit deficit before benching Wiseman completely and coming all the way back from down 19 to win.

Yup. I would certainly take him as a piece in a trade, but not the main one. The point of rookies is you (Hope) to get surplus value in years 3 & 4 of their rookie contracts and then hopefully their RFA contract as well if they really hit. But I dont see any way that is possible with him making 4/40M.

Too many FA Centers for equal or less money that are just better. Noel, Holmes, WCS, Zubac, Thomas Bryant, Favors, Poetl, etc.

I mean, how much surplus value have the Suns gotten from the last generational big man in Ayton? None. Guy has been average at best and is now in his 3rd year.