Welcome Shake Milton

Negrodamus · Post #321 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:00 pm

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"Lou Williams role".

youngcrev · Post #322 » by **youngcrev** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:03 pm

Negrodamus wrote:

Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter

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"Lou Williams role".

What if we call it the "Manu role"?

I think he definitely deserves to start in terms of clearly being one of our best players, but there are benefits to him playing a higher usage role with the bench guys (particularly with Dwight, who is our best roll man) and then closing games out for us.

Crazy how impressive he's been while shooting way below what you'd expect from 3. That other stuff will normalize at some point, but so will his percentages from deep.

Negrodamus · Post #323 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:16 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Spoiler:

Read on Twitter
?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

"Lou Williams role".

What if we call it the "Manu role"?

I think he definitely deserves to start in terms of clearly being one of our best players, but there are benefits to him playing a higher usage role with the bench guys (particularly with Dwight, who is our best roll man) and then closing games out for us.

Crazy how impressive he's been while shooting way below what you'd expect from 3. That other stuff will normalize at some point, but so will his percentages from deep.

I think there would be benefits to playing Kyrie Irving off the bench in Brooklyn since Harden and Durant need the ball in their hands, but that's certainly not going to happen.

If Shake was tragically bad on defense, I'd understand the relegation, but he is currently our second best two way player on the team. I think the only reasons Doc is doing this is to spread the talent across lineups and to give Shake the chance to be the 6MotY. I think the latter reason weighs much more than the former since Maxey has played well off the bench and Curry/Green would also be a nice second unit piece.

TTP · Post #324 » by **TTP** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:17 pm

I want to see some Shake/Ben PnR. It would allow us to increase Shake's usage while sharing the floor with Ben, and allows Ben to actually have some value on offense without needing to be the primary ballhandler.

SixthStreet · Post #325 » by **SixthStreet** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:34 pm

At this point the only reason Shake isn't starting is that they are worried what it will do to Simmons' psyche. The trade talk surely spooked him and then to have the ball taken out of his hands?

As much as Shake has continued to evolve on offense, I'm more impressed he's seemingly turned himself into a defender basically overnight. I did not see that coming.

youngcrev · Post #326 » by **youngcrev** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:42 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Spoiler:

Read on Twitter
?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

"Lou Williams role".

What if we call it the "Manu role"?

I think he definitely deserves to start in terms of clearly being one of our best players, but there are benefits to him playing a higher usage role with the bench guys (particularly with Dwight, who is our best roll man) and then closing games out for us.

Crazy how impressive he's been while shooting way below what you'd expect from 3. That other stuff will normalize at some point, but so will his percentages from deep.

I think there would be benefits to playing Kyrie Irving off the bench in Brooklyn since Harden and Durant need the ball in their hands, but that's certainly not going to happen.

If Shake was tragically bad on defense, I'd understand the relegation, but he is currently our second best two way player on the team. I think the only reasons Doc is doing this is to spread the talent across lineups and to give Shake the chance to be the 6MotY. I think the latter reason weighs much more than the former since Maxey has played well off the bench and Curry/Green would also be a nice second unit piece.

I mean, if there weren't egos at play, I think that would make the Nets more dangerous. Though that's a little easier to say with them than it is with us with our lack of playmakers in the starting unit.

I dunno. If you told me Doc was going all in on Shake and going to make him a high usage playmaker with the starters, I'd say be all in on it. But that hasn't been how it's played out (doesn't mean that couldn't change). If he's getting starter minutes off the bench (which he has been lately) and is part of the closing unit, I don't really have much of an issue with how he's being used.

It also might make more sense if Doc went away from the bench unit thing and started staggering the starters more.

That said, this is mostly just a devil's advocate thing, because I'm gonna be pumped once he's in the lineup, and think it's particularly dumb not to start him when they're missing players

youngcrev · Post #327 » by **youngcrev** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:43 pm

SixthStreet wrote:At this point the only reason Shake isn't starting is that they are worried what it will do to Simmons' psyche. The trade talk surely spooked him and then to have the ball taken out of his hands?

As much as Shake has continued to evolve on offense, I'm more impressed he's seemingly turned himself into a defender basically overnight. I did not see that coming.

I really don't think that has anything to do with it

Negrodamus · Post #328 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:49 pm

I'm fairly confident that Shake will stay sixth man till the end of the year with a possibility of starting in the playoffs. Next year when Green is a FA, Shake will move into his slot.

It's silly, and not that big of a deal if we're winning, but it's clear to me that Shake is being underutilized (ie not maximizing his minutes with the most talented players, the starters). There has been a bit of a deferring issue when he plays with Embiid too. Not sure if that's a clashing of seniority or something, but Shake hasn't been as aggressive when Joel is on the floor from the times I have watched.

76thBearCub · Post #329 » by **76thBearCub** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:02 pm

Count me in on wanting to see him more with the better players.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #330 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:18 pm

Mik317 wrote:I think the idea is to make sure that second lineup as some pop...especially since Doc likes to run an all bench unit. Curry or Green doesn't give that pop and works better off the starters.

Kobblehead makes a good point though about Maxey. I mean give Maxey the keys to the second unit and let Shake start. Either way I don't see it as a huge deal. Shake right now is at 26.5 minutes per game. I'd like to see that jump to around 30 if that would be possible. People on here are talking about him as if he may actually be our second best player on this roster. I'm not willing to go that far yet because I feel that Ben still has a hold on that by quite a bit. But...By seasons end, Shake may very well be the third star on this team. I think he's that good.

76thBearCub · Post #331 » by **76thBearCub** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:41 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:Kobblehead makes a good point though about Maxey. I mean give Maxey the keys to the second unit and let Shake start. Either way I don't see it as a huge deal. Shake right now is at 26.5 minutes per game. I'd like to see that jump to around 30 if that would be possible. People on here are talking about him as if he may actually be our second best player on this roster. I'm not willing to go that far yet because I feel that Ben still has a hold on that by quite a bit. But...By seasons end, Shake may very well be the third star on this team. I think he's that good.

This is what we need at this point for this team to progress. Morey doesn't have an ace up the sleeve for this. We have to hope for internal growth. Milton has already shown it, we need to see it integrated in with Ben and Jo. Maxey has shown enough that he deserves to have a shot at the spark plug role imo.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #332 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:14 am

76thBearCub wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:Kobblehead makes a good point though about Maxey. I mean give Maxey the keys to the second unit and let Shake start. Either way I don't see it as a huge deal. Shake right now is at 26.5 minutes per game. I'd like to see that jump to around 30 if that would be possible. People on here are talking about him as if he may actually be our second best player on this roster. I'm not willing to go that far yet because I feel that Ben still has a hold on that by quite a bit. But...By seasons end, Shake may very well be the third star on this team. I think he's that good.

This is what we need at this point for this team to progress. Morey doesn't have an ace up the sleeve for this. We have to hope for internal growth. Milton has already shown it, we need to see it integrated in with Ben and Jo. Maxey has shown enough that he deserves to have a shot at the spark plug role imo.

I agree, it was the Clipper game last season where Shake put up 39 on them that had me sold. It wasn't just a fluke game. The way he scored those points and the way he carried himself that game showed me a lot. With that said, I have been guilty in the past of hyping up our players to be better than they were. I was young enough at one time to think that Kyle Korver was going to be the next Drazen Petrovic...Marc Jackson was going to be an all star center for us, Kenny Satterfield was going to be a steal, Derrick Byars, Thad Young, Evan Turner! I think this is different with Shake though....I really do.

76thBearCub · Post #333 » by **76thBearCub** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:22 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
I agree, it was the Clipper game last season where Shake put up 39 on them that had me sold. It wasn't just a fluke game. The way he scored those points and the way he carried himself that game showed me a lot. With that said, I have been guilty in the past of hyping up our players to be better than they were. I was young enough at one time to think that Kyle Korver was going to be the next Drazen Petrovic...Marc Jackson was going to be an all star center for us, Kenny Satterfield was going to be a steal, Derrick Byars, Thad Young, Evan Turner! I think this is different with Shake though....I really do.

Oh I def hope nobody's trying to scout my record. I just get drunk and call it as i see it. I'm AT LEAST average at getting it wrong.

Shake looks real though. An exciting upstart.

TTP · Post #334 » by **TTP** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:43 pm

538 released their 2020-21 RAPTOR ratings and Shake ranks 15th in the NBA (Embiid is 7th).

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sportfan73 · Post #335 » by **Sportfan73** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:59 pm

TTP wrote:538 released their 2020-21 RAPTOR ratings and Shake ranks 15th in the NBA (Embiid is 7th).

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

He needs starters minutes soooon. I think green is gone by the deadline for someone on a multi year deal that bolsters our bench

Post #336 » by **Stanford** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:13 pm

What can you say about a metric that declares Nic Batum to be more valuable above replacement than LeBron James.

Pretty much flawless.

TTP · Post #337 » by **TTP** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:25 pm

Stanford wrote:What can you say about a metric that declares Nic Batum to be more valuable above replacement than LeBron James.

Pretty much flawless.

Maybe Batum's been better than LeBron so far?

LeBron coasts on defense in the regular season and Batum is shooting 48/43/87 with plus defense. It's not saying that Batum is a better player than LeBron overall or that Batum will be the better player at the end of the season, just that he's been better within his role so far this season. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

FWIW other metrics suggest LeBron has been worse so far this year than previous seasons as well.

Monix · Post #338 » by **Monix** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:13 pm

that says more about the quality of the metric than it says about LeBron

youngcrev · Post #339 » by **youngcrev** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:18 pm

Depends on how you're using it. If you're using at as a flat out player rankings system with no regard to role or minutes (or that it's simply really early in the season), then yeah, it's garbage.

Post #340 » by **Stanford** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:23 pm

TTP wrote:It's not saying that Batum is a better player than LeBron overall

I didnt claim that it did.

just that he's been better within his role so far this season.

It says that Batum has more value, on the basketball court over a replacement level player at his position, than LeBron James.

FWIW other metrics suggest LeBron has been worse so far this year than previous seasons as well.

To be sure. What do they say about his value versus Nic Batum?