ImageImageImage

Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread

Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman

yeleven11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,309
And1: 1,633
Joined: Nov 26, 2012

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1321 » by yeleven11 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:16 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
yeleven11 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
No, it's all good. I promise. To respond to your point (which is fair) I'll say this. Whether one believes that any of those 3 are better options is subjective and Danny may not be able to tell without doing more in-depth analysis, talking to other coaches, scouts, etc. And in the end, an interview is probably going to be the deciding factor which you obviously won't do before firing Brad. All that said, I'll tell what I like about those 3 names as potential hires.

Sam and Chauncey are former players, championship players at that. They walk in the door with a cache that Brad couldn't dream of having. They understand the players of this league which gives them an edge I think in understanding how to manage egos (something that has come up from time to time with Brad). They have tutored under respected names in this league. They're point guards who have run teams and that insight from the standpoint of understanding how good offense functions as a whole gives them a leg up.

Becky Hammon has had a distinguished college and professional basketball career in the NWBL, the WNBA, and overseas. She has a wealth of basketball experience that translates and she's spent the last 6 seasons learning under an all-time Top 5 Hall of Fame coach. She also walks in the door with a better resume then Brad.

Each of these 3 candidates have a TON of respect in this league that cannot be quantified. Each of them will command it in the lockerroom. And while I know Brad has the respect of his players as well, there have been times when some have questioned his willingness to be "the bad guy" or crack the whip when it's necessary to hold guys accountable. Some guys don't respond to the tough love approach and need prodding. But others respond to being challenged to do more. Brad doesn't have both these things in his arsenal and I wonder if it's at least in part because he's never played the game at a professional level.


I think those are all good points but we also have plenty of examples of former players being coaches and not succeeding. This is what I mean by "grass isnt always greener on the other side." We might get a former player as a coach who might be better at the things you mentioned, but they might not be as good scheme-wise. There's always a give and take. I just think that Brad is pretty good scheme-wise especially on the defensive end and because he's our coach we tend to focus on the things he SUPPOSEDLY doesnt do. FWIW, Evan Turner in his playing days said everyone thinks Brad is a nice guy because of his demeanor but in reality, hes not afraid to call guys out behind closed doors.


Hey, if the point you're making is "you never know", I get it. I will happily concede that point. And I will also concede that my feelings on Brad have changed a little. It sounds like you're still pretty confident in him and that's cool. I am less confident in him now which is why I had no problem coming up with alternatives. There are examples of players who became good coaches. Examples of guys who flamed out too. The risk in hiring a potential flameout just doesn't scare me more than it would scare me to stick with a coach who I thought couldn't get it done just because he has a good regular season record. There's risk either way, I guess is my final point. But we'll see what happens.


Yeah my biggest issue with Brad is lack of creativity on offense and playing bad vets over promising young players too much. I think the whole "motivator" thing is overrated in general, if you need your coach to motivate you to be ready for a game, you probably aint cut out for it anyways.
User avatar
ConstableGeneva
RealGM
Posts: 50,566
And1: 101,358
Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Parody Account
 

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1322 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:18 pm

Read on Twitter

Tatum for Boucher. Who says no??!
░N░0░0░D░S░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 17,062
And1: 15,799
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1323 » by BK_2020 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:21 pm

There's pretty much 0 good NBA coaches who are former players. I think the list is Kerr and ends there. If you want to fail, hire a former player, basically.
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,414
And1: 15,500
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1324 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:28 pm

yeleven11 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
yeleven11 wrote:
I think those are all good points but we also have plenty of examples of former players being coaches and not succeeding. This is what I mean by "grass isnt always greener on the other side." We might get a former player as a coach who might be better at the things you mentioned, but they might not be as good scheme-wise. There's always a give and take. I just think that Brad is pretty good scheme-wise especially on the defensive end and because he's our coach we tend to focus on the things he SUPPOSEDLY doesnt do. FWIW, Evan Turner in his playing days said everyone thinks Brad is a nice guy because of his demeanor but in reality, hes not afraid to call guys out behind closed doors.


Hey, if the point you're making is "you never know", I get it. I will happily concede that point. And I will also concede that my feelings on Brad have changed a little. It sounds like you're still pretty confident in him and that's cool. I am less confident in him now which is why I had no problem coming up with alternatives. There are examples of players who became good coaches. Examples of guys who flamed out too. The risk in hiring a potential flameout just doesn't scare me more than it would scare me to stick with a coach who I thought couldn't get it done just because he has a good regular season record. There's risk either way, I guess is my final point. But we'll see what happens.


Yeah my biggest issue with Brad is lack of creativity on offense and playing bad vets over promising young players too much. I think the whole "motivator" thing is overrated in general, if you need your coach to motivate you to be ready for a game, you probably aint cut out for it anyways.


What I do like about our players is that they all love ball and are all willing to work. I don't think any of them have issues getting up to play. But when they make a mistake out there, some players respond differently to different stimulus. Some players respond to adversity with a firm, but accepting tone. Others need the sh*t kicked out of them in order to get it together. Brad doesn't really have both options in his bag. Brad can't come at these players like he understands what they're going through when they're in the midst of adversity out there on the court...and that's because he's got no freaking idea. Not saying that's the end all, be all of important factors. But the presence of those things can sometimes make a difference I think.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured
yeleven11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,309
And1: 1,633
Joined: Nov 26, 2012

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1325 » by yeleven11 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:36 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
yeleven11 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Hey, if the point you're making is "you never know", I get it. I will happily concede that point. And I will also concede that my feelings on Brad have changed a little. It sounds like you're still pretty confident in him and that's cool. I am less confident in him now which is why I had no problem coming up with alternatives. There are examples of players who became good coaches. Examples of guys who flamed out too. The risk in hiring a potential flameout just doesn't scare me more than it would scare me to stick with a coach who I thought couldn't get it done just because he has a good regular season record. There's risk either way, I guess is my final point. But we'll see what happens.


Yeah my biggest issue with Brad is lack of creativity on offense and playing bad vets over promising young players too much. I think the whole "motivator" thing is overrated in general, if you need your coach to motivate you to be ready for a game, you probably aint cut out for it anyways.


What I do like about our players is that they all love ball and are all willing to work. I don't think any of them have issues getting up to play. But when they make a mistake out there, some players respond differently to different stimulus. Some players respond to adversity with a firm, but accepting tone. Others need the sh*t kicked out of them in order to get it together. Brad doesn't really have both options in his bag. Brad can't come at these players like he understands what they're going through when they're in the midst of adversity out there on the court...and that's because he's got no freaking idea. Not saying that's the end all, be all of important factors. But the presence of those things can sometimes make a difference I think.


It doesnt have to be Brad who plays that particular role, though. You can get assistant coaches to do that. And I think Brad knows that's a weakness on the staff and that's why he brought in Evan Turner. One of the biggest strength of Brad, I think, is that he really does evaluate himself and the staff at the end of the season and figure out what is missing.
User avatar
theman
RealGM
Posts: 13,585
And1: 1,437
Joined: May 23, 2001

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1326 » by theman » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:48 pm

BK_2020 wrote:There's pretty much 0 good NBA coaches who are former players. I think the list is Kerr and ends there. If you want to fail, hire a former player, basically.


I especially hate the idea of hiring a former player with little to no coaching experience. Jason Kidd was a failure in Brooklyn despite having a stacked team. Luke Walton who looked good when he filled in for Kerr but when he got a head coaching job failed. Rick Carlisle was an assistant for 11 season before becoming a head coach.

For the record Doc Rivers is a good NBA coach and a former player. But he is far worse at player development than Brad Stevens.

Playing and coaching a two entirely different animals. Red Auerbach was the greatest coach ever, was he ever a player. Coaching is about intelligence and handling people. Playing is about skill and athleticism. Yes, the two can intersect but being good at one does not make you good at the other.

Currently Brad Stevens has the 51st highest winning percentage of any coach in the history of the NBA. He is 5 slots behind Jeff Van Gundy and 4 behind Stan Van Gundy. He is ahead of Hall Of Fame coaches Rudy Tomjanovich, Red Holzman, Larry Brown, and Lenny Wilkens. Stevens also has a better playoff winning percentage than Doc Rivers and Rick Carlisle both of whom have won a championship. Stevens is doing fine.
"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything." - Bob Dylan

"All this talk about equality. The only thing people really have in common is that they are all going to die." - Bob Dylan
User avatar
theman
RealGM
Posts: 13,585
And1: 1,437
Joined: May 23, 2001

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1327 » by theman » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:50 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Yeah but it its asinine to waste the opportunity to draft a fat serbian kid. Why doesn't Ainge just draft the very best player on the board every single time? I don't get it.


Name me one GM who does that.
"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything." - Bob Dylan

"All this talk about equality. The only thing people really have in common is that they are all going to die." - Bob Dylan
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,414
And1: 15,500
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1328 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:56 pm

yeleven11 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
yeleven11 wrote:
Yeah my biggest issue with Brad is lack of creativity on offense and playing bad vets over promising young players too much. I think the whole "motivator" thing is overrated in general, if you need your coach to motivate you to be ready for a game, you probably aint cut out for it anyways.


What I do like about our players is that they all love ball and are all willing to work. I don't think any of them have issues getting up to play. But when they make a mistake out there, some players respond differently to different stimulus. Some players respond to adversity with a firm, but accepting tone. Others need the sh*t kicked out of them in order to get it together. Brad doesn't really have both options in his bag. Brad can't come at these players like he understands what they're going through when they're in the midst of adversity out there on the court...and that's because he's got no freaking idea. Not saying that's the end all, be all of important factors. But the presence of those things can sometimes make a difference I think.


It doesnt have to be Brad who plays that particular role, though. You can get assistant coaches to do that. And I think Brad knows that's a weakness on the staff and that's why he brought in Evan Turner. One of the biggest strength of Brad, I think, is that he really does evaluate himself and the staff at the end of the season and figure out what is missing.


You're right he doesn't. My personal opinion (and nothing more), I think it carries extra weight when it is though. I was actually surprised by the Turner hire. I understand why he was the choice although, he wouldn't have been mine. I don't know that Evan has the juice for the role I'm thinking of but hopefully he helps us. I think most coaches worth their salt evaluate themselves and their staff too so I'd expect that of any coach here.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured
User avatar
theman
RealGM
Posts: 13,585
And1: 1,437
Joined: May 23, 2001

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1329 » by theman » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:26 pm

Is this the trade thread or the dump Stevens/Ainge thread?

If the former, I would like to propose Carsen Edwards to Cleveland for Kevin Porter Jr. Cleveland is trying to dump Porter because he is a bit of a headcase. Headcase is probably the wrong word but he has a chip on his shoulder and think his needs to be a bad arse. But he has lottery talent. It's not a position of need but you can never have too many good young players.

Blast away.
"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything." - Bob Dylan

"All this talk about equality. The only thing people really have in common is that they are all going to die." - Bob Dylan
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 42,158
And1: 25,931
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1330 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:35 pm

Frankly I would not be willing to pay the repeater tax for any of the players being discussed now. One bad game from a team that hadn't practiced in a week and couldn't throw the ball into the ocean and everyone is pushing the panic button, including our favorite Laker fan beat writer in the Globe. Chill out. Think of poor Miami and Toronto-- sitting at 5-7 and 5-8 respectively-- while having all of their players healthy. Or Indiana, which just traded Oladipo for a player about to undergo surgery and lost Turner to a broken hand.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
MagicBagley18
RealGM
Posts: 14,831
And1: 20,333
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1331 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:08 am

Chauncey, Sam and Becky all deserve coaching opportunities but I’m not sure I wanna hand over Jayson Tatum and Jaylen browns next 3-4 years over to a 1st time coach.

If we move on from brad I think it should be someone who has head coaching experience and can get the players and team to the next level. Maybe those 3 start out and have zero bumps in the road as 1st time head coaches but it’s not an experiment I’m willing to try with so much tied into the future of Tatum and co.
User avatar
LarryBirdsFingr
RealGM
Posts: 12,377
And1: 18,686
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
     

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1332 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:15 am

Thank you Danny ainge for this personnel
I don't believe in statistics. There are too many factors that can't be measured. You can't measure a ballplayer's heart. -Red Auerbach

Marcus Smart is an underrated shooter
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
reload141
RealGM
Posts: 11,773
And1: 23,422
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
       

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1333 » by reload141 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:31 am

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:Thank you Danny ainge for this personnel


Given Smitty's article I wonder if it's more a combination of Zarren and Ainge?
User avatar
theman
RealGM
Posts: 13,585
And1: 1,437
Joined: May 23, 2001

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1334 » by theman » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:43 am

MagicBagley18 wrote:Chauncey, Sam and Becky all deserve coaching opportunities


Why?
"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything." - Bob Dylan

"All this talk about equality. The only thing people really have in common is that they are all going to die." - Bob Dylan
MagicBagley18
RealGM
Posts: 14,831
And1: 20,333
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1335 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:11 am

theman wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Chauncey, Sam and Becky all deserve coaching opportunities


Why?


Sam has been around great coaches in a few different places and played in the league for a long time. Chauncey is widely regarded as a great leader and excellent communicator , he’s interviewed before for gm positions and he commands respect in virtually all locker rooms he’s been in.

Becky has had a career in the wnba, overseas, and has bridged the gap in a league dominated by men and commanded respect and has the ears of her players. She had every reason to fail quit or he tuned out by this male dominated league and there’s nothing but praise for her hard work, command and ability to have a real input into game plans and play calls.

Curious why you ask?
titlebound1
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,629
And1: 1,625
Joined: Feb 19, 2009
   

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1336 » by titlebound1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:49 am

MagicBagley18 wrote:
theman wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Chauncey, Sam and Becky all deserve coaching opportunities


Why?


Sam has been around great coaches in a few different places and played in the league for a long time. Chauncey is widely regarded as a great leader and excellent communicator , he’s interviewed before for gm positions and he commands respect in virtually all locker rooms he’s been in.

Becky has had a career in the wnba, overseas, and has bridged the gap in a league dominated by men and commanded respect and has the ears of her players. She had every reason to fail quit or he tuned out by this male dominated league and there’s nothing but praise for her hard work, command and ability to have a real input into game plans and play calls.

Curious why you ask?


I'd say because there is no reason to believe that any of them would be better than what we already have. It makes no sense. If some bad or young team wants to give them a shot? Yeah sure go for it. But you don't replace a proven coach with an unknown when you are trying to contend. Which is absolutely what they are
MagicBagley18
RealGM
Posts: 14,831
And1: 20,333
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1337 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:13 am

titlebound1 wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
theman wrote:
Why?


Sam has been around great coaches in a few different places and played in the league for a long time. Chauncey is widely regarded as a great leader and excellent communicator , he’s interviewed before for gm positions and he commands respect in virtually all locker rooms he’s been in.

Becky has had a career in the wnba, overseas, and has bridged the gap in a league dominated by men and commanded respect and has the ears of her players. She had every reason to fail quit or he tuned out by this male dominated league and there’s nothing but praise for her hard work, command and ability to have a real input into game plans and play calls.

Curious why you ask?


I'd say because there is no reason to believe that any of them would be better than what we already have. It makes no sense. If some bad or young team wants to give them a shot? Yeah sure go for it. But you don't replace a proven coach with an unknown when you are trying to contend. Which is absolutely what they are


Did u read anything I said at all? I said those 3 deserve coaching jobs but I wouldn’t take that risk with the Celtics. So read what’s said
titlebound1
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,629
And1: 1,625
Joined: Feb 19, 2009
   

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1338 » by titlebound1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:18 am

MagicBagley18 wrote:
titlebound1 wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Sam has been around great coaches in a few different places and played in the league for a long time. Chauncey is widely regarded as a great leader and excellent communicator , he’s interviewed before for gm positions and he commands respect in virtually all locker rooms he’s been in.

Becky has had a career in the wnba, overseas, and has bridged the gap in a league dominated by men and commanded respect and has the ears of her players. She had every reason to fail quit or he tuned out by this male dominated league and there’s nothing but praise for her hard work, command and ability to have a real input into game plans and play calls.

Curious why you ask?


I'd say because there is no reason to believe that any of them would be better than what we already have. It makes no sense. If some bad or young team wants to give them a shot? Yeah sure go for it. But you don't replace a proven coach with an unknown when you are trying to contend. Which is absolutely what they are


Did u read anything I said at all? I said those 3 deserve coaching jobs but I wouldn’t take that risk with the Celtics. So read what’s said


Calm down

You did not say in the post I quoted that "they deserve coaching jobs but I wouldn't take that risk with the celtics." Which is what the conversation earlier in the thread was about. I don't know these people personally. I've never interviewed them or worked with them. I can't tell you if they deserve a job based on what other people have said. And neither can you. But sure...thanks for the opinion that you pass off as absolute fact
Ernest
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,628
And1: 1,271
Joined: Jun 16, 2019

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1339 » by Ernest » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:33 am

So it's back to dump Ainge and Brad yet again?
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,414
And1: 15,500
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread 

Post#1340 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:53 am

Ernest wrote:So it's back to dump Ainge and Brad yet again?


Yeah that's happening next week. Woj just announced on Twitter.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured

Return to Boston Celtics