Should we fire sale and tank or just tank?

[Note30]

Pretty sure we're gonna be one of the lowest seeds. But just how low can we go.

I believe if we trade Towns we're gonna get the biggest haul we can get right now. As opposed to after this season when he demands to be traded.

But there's other options.

[Calinks]

Stay the course and keep building. Crappy season so far but its time to start building, We need consistency and direction. We just blew it up last year doesn't make sense to do it again.

[shrink]

I agree with Calinks. We devote this season to development. Give Edwards, Culver, and any young player all the minutes they can handle. If they grow quicker with Rubio out there, play Rubio.

As others have said, we’re not going to trade our way out of this, because our pieces have no value. We need to develop them, and hope some of them grow into either pieces we build with, or assets we can trade.

We don’t need to intentionally tank to still get losses.

[SCTwins]

Blow it up from the top down.

We aren't going anywhere with KAT as our centerpiece, at least not with another star level player on the wing, and D-Lo sure as hell isn't that guy.

It will be funny to watch KAT being drowned in media accolades after he ends up in LA or something.

[Merc_Porto]

Retool and that has to be by trading KAT and Dlo. We are not going anywhere with these two and since Dlo doesn't have any value to bring anything positive... We need to get rid of Dlo and trade KAT for positive assets.

I say Hawks with John Collins, Hunter and Capela. And call NYK to see if they want to trade Dlo for Randle expiring contract, doubt it thought.

Ricky (Jmac)
Edwards (Beasley)
Hunter (Daniels)
Collins (Vnderbilt)
Capela (Naz)

Is a solid young core. Very balanced roster to make a couple of playoffs appereances. Utah Jazz / Indiana Pacers style. Being relevant again for years in a row.

I'm a big believer in John Collins.

[Foye]

KAT to GSW for Wiseman, Oubre, Looney, 2021 pick returned, 2023 pick top 3 protected, 2025 pick unprotected.

Not sure if he still has that much value left around the league though. Probably not.

[Wolveswin]

KAT to GSW for Wiseman, Oubre, Looney, 2021 pick returned, 2023 pick top 3 protected, 2025 pick unprotected.

Not sure if he still has that much value left around the league though. Probably not.

Warriors can’t trade their 2023 or 2025.

Warriors have to be involved if Wolves tank — but I don’t think they have the assets straight up. Best they can offer:

Wiseman
Oubre Jr. (maybe to 3rd team)
Looney
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected)
2022 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)

Then it gets tricky with Warriors owing their 2024 1st protected to Grizzlies. But if Grizzlies agree to make 2024 Warriors 1st unprotected, add:

2025 Warriors 1st Swap
2026 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2027 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)

Not sure Warriors will do all of that for Towns. They traditionally aren’t a center focused team.

I think a third team is needed with Warriors to make it work. And Towns goes to that 3rd team.

[Calinks]

I'm still confident the team will improve. Towns coming back will be a moderate upgrade. Towns, Dlo, and Beasley alone can win some games. I expect we will make a trade for a frontcourt player at some point, if we get a decent one, that's another moderate improvement to the team.

From there we will be looking to round the roster out with better permiter play and maybe some additional frontcourt help. All of that probably wont come together this season but we should spend the season trying to develop what we have into those roles and scouring the market for those players.

I expect us to end the season playing close to .500 ball with a healthy KAT and new frontcourt player.In large part, due to tihs terrible start we will probably wind up with a 1st in the 5-12 range which will go to GS.

Now is the time to start getting vets who can play and filling in the gaps of the team. We will still try to develop young guys who look like they can help us but if we feel they can't we will package them to fill out the roster better.

[Klomp]

I'm still confident the team will improve. Towns coming back will be a moderate upgrade. Towns, Dlo, and Beasley alone can win some games. I expect we will make a trade for a frontcourt player at some point, if we get a decent one, that's another moderate improvement to the team.

From there we will be looking to round the roster out with better permiter play and maybe some additional frontcourt help. All of that probably wont come together this season but we should spend the season trying to develop what we have into those roles and scouring the market for those players.

I expect us to end the season playing close to .500 ball with a healthy KAT and new frontcourt player.In large part, due to tihs terrible start we will probably wind up with a 1st in the 5-12 range which will go to GS.

Now is the time to start getting vets who can play and filling in the gaps of the team. We will still try to develop young guys who look like they can help us but if we feel they can't we will package them to fill out the roster better.

I don't think the loss of Towns can be understated. Right or wrong, everything is built around him.

[shangrila]

Take out the absurd losses, like the other night, and given Towns' injury our record isn't so bad. Don't get me wrong, it's not great but it's not scorched earth bad. There are several issues that have come up and need to be addressed however.

Firstly, Saunders likely has to go. He's clearly in over his head at this point. Maybe with a more veteran roster we could get away with a rookie coach but having both he and the players trying to find themselves is having the blind lead the blind. I don't know if Vanterpool is the answer but I'd be willing to take the chance that he's not going to make the same rookie mistakes like leaving a game you lost by 1 with TWO timeouts remaining.

Secondly, the team needs size. I know you can't just wave a magic wand and make good players appear but even an average 7 footer would go a long way. We cannot continue to rely on Davis, Reid, Hernangomez and Vanderbilt as the primary bigs sans Towns. They simply don't have the bulk to match up with a lot of the bigger players in the league. Individually some of this can be compensated for but, for example, playing Reid and Vanderbilt together is just too much.

Thirdly, we have no identity. We're not a defensive team, obviously. But I don't even know what we are offensively. We went from 3rd in 3PAs last season to 18th right now, so we're not a shooting team anymore. We're 22nd in FTAs so that's not our strength either. Assists? We're 21st. So...what are we doing? What are we trying to do?

[Calinks]

Wish KAT I think we could have at least 2 more wins. Last night's game, a couple other of close weird losses. You go from 3-10 to 5-8 or 6-7. Totally different conversation. I don't think KAt being back makes us good but it can make us more competitive. You can build up from there.

[Klomp]

Thirdly, we have no identity. We're not a defensive team, obviously. But I don't even know what we are offensively. We went from 3rd in 3PAs last season to 18th right now, so we're not a shooting team anymore. We're 22nd in FTAs so that's not our strength either. Assists? We're 21st. So...what are we doing? What are we trying to do?

The offense has been the baffling part of the season so far. Who would've guessed Ed Davis would have the highest offensive rating?

[Krapinsky]

I think a fire sale would only make sense after the season, if at all. I think we need to increase the value of the assets we do have and develop our young talent.

I would send Culver to the G-League until he learns to dominate at that level and become a more efficient offensive player. He has zero trade value at this point and it seems playing him more minutes will only hurt his confidence. I would rather use these minutes for Edwards/Beasley.
I would start Edwards as a SF and play him 35 minutes per game.
I would start Rubio. This does a few things. Increases Rubio's trade value, speeds up Edwards development giving him more opportunities playing off of Rubio, and increases Beasley's trade value for the same reason. With Rubio starting, Beasley and Edwards will have more scoring opportunities and be assisted more points.
Thus, I would make D-Lo the 6th man, limit him to under 30 minutes per game, and bring Vanderbilt off the bench with him since they have chemistry. D-Lo gets to dribble a way the shot clock and take contested jumpers. If we need him to close out games, so be it, he can then sub in for one of Rubio/Beasley/Edwards. In my mind he is our Lou Williams/Isaiah Thomas/Jamal Crawford for now.
I would limit Okogie's minutes in favor of developing McDaniels.

I would see where that takes us up to the trade deadline. At that point we could try to reshuffle the roster and build for next year.

[Note30]

I think a fire sale would only make sense after the season, if at all. I think we need to increase the value of the assets we do have and develop our young talent.

I would send Culver to the G-League until he learns to dominate at that level and become a more efficient offensive player. He has zero trade value at this point and it seems playing him more minutes will only hurt his confidence. I would rather use these minutes for Edwards/Beasley.
I would start Edwards as a SF and play him 35 minutes per game.
I would start Rubio. This does a few things. Increases Rubio's trade value, speeds up Edwards development giving him more opportunities playing off of Rubio, and increases Beasley's trade value for the same reason. With Rubio starting, Beasley and Edwards will have more scoring opportunities and be assisted more points.
Thus, I would make D-Lo the 6th man, limit him to under 30 minutes per game, and bring Vanderbilt off the bench with him since they have chemistry. D-Lo gets to dribble a way the shot clock and take contested jumpers. If we need him to close out games, so be it, he can then sub in for one of Rubio/Beasley/Edwards. In my mind he is our Lou Williams/Isaiah Thomas/Jamal Crawford for now.
I would limit Okogie's minutes in favor of developing McDaniels.

I would see where that takes us up to the trade deadline. At that point we could try to reshuffle the roster and build for next year.

I like this idea the most.

[Nick K]

I think a fire sale would only make sense after the season, if at all. I think we need to increase the value of the assets we do have and develop our young talent.

I would send Culver to the G-League until he learns to dominate at that level and become a more efficient offensive player. He has zero trade value at this point and it seems playing him more minutes will only hurt his confidence. I would rather use these minutes for Edwards/Beasley.
I would start Edwards as a SF and play him 35 minutes per game.
I would start Rubio. This does a few things. Increases Rubio's trade value, speeds up Edwards development giving him more opportunities playing off of Rubio, and increases Beasley's trade value for the same reason. With Rubio starting, Beasley and Edwards will have more scoring opportunities and be assisted more points.
Thus, I would make D-Lo the 6th man, limit him to under 30 minutes per game, and bring Vanderbilt off the bench with him since they have chemistry. D-Lo gets to dribble a way the shot clock and take contested jumpers. If we need him to close out games, so be it, he can then sub in for one of Rubio/Beasley/Edwards. In my mind he is our Lou Williams/Isaiah Thomas/Jamal Crawford for now.
I would limit Okogie's minutes in favor of developing McDaniels.

I would see where that takes us up to the trade deadline. At that point we could try to reshuffle the roster and build for next year.

I like this idea the most.

"Should we fire sale and tank or just tank? " I say no to all!

I love a lot of the ideas above but modified. I'd start Dlo, Edwards, J McD, Vandy and Kat. That's our lineup of the future so lets get them as many minutes as possible. Okogie is not a starter.

The 2nd unit s/b, Ricky, Beasley, Culver, Reid and a PF to be determined.

I have wanted to give Ryan every opportunity but last night going small with 2 PG's who had not played together that night did it for me. Ryan got away from what was so successful and he got what he deserved. There was no ball movement and it turned into hero ball with Dlo and Beasley. Who did they have to pass it to who could score? No one. So they took it on their own.

Overall I really like what Beasley brings but he needs to be the team's 6th man instant offense. It's his perfect role.

We're so young and we have some terrific talent that needs to play. So let's play em.

How do you blow up a team that was just blown up a few months ago??

These are the growing pains young teams go through especially without their best player.

The season is ruined so let's go with our future.

[Nick K]

I'm still confident the team will improve. Towns coming back will be a moderate upgrade. Towns, Dlo, and Beasley alone can win some games. I expect we will make a trade for a frontcourt player at some point, if we get a decent one, that's another moderate improvement to the team.

From there we will be looking to round the roster out with better permiter play and maybe some additional frontcourt help. All of that probably wont come together this season but we should spend the season trying to develop what we have into those roles and scouring the market for those players.

I expect us to end the season playing close to .500 ball with a healthy KAT and new frontcourt player.In large part, due to tihs terrible start we will probably wind up with a 1st in the 5-12 range which will go to GS.

Now is the time to start getting vets who can play and filling in the gaps of the team. We will still try to develop young guys who look like they can help us but if we feel they can't we will package them to fill out the roster better.

[b]I don't think the loss of Towns can be understated. Right or wrong, everything is built around him[/b].

I have hardly missed a Wolves game since their beginning. If they trade Kat, I'm done with this franchise.

[Note30]

I'm still confident the team will improve. Towns coming back will be a moderate upgrade. Towns, Dlo, and Beasley alone can win some games. I expect we will make a trade for a frontcourt player at some point, if we get a decent one, that's another moderate improvement to the team.

From there we will be looking to round the roster out with better permiter play and maybe some additional frontcourt help. All of that probably wont come together this season but we should spend the season trying to develop what we have into those roles and scouring the market for those players.

I expect us to end the season playing close to .500 ball with a healthy KAT and new frontcourt player.In large part, due to tihs terrible start we will probably wind up with a 1st in the 5-12 range which will go to GS.

Now is the time to start getting vets who can play and filling in the gaps of the team. We will still try to develop young guys who look like they can help us but if we feel they can't we will package them to fill out the roster better.

[b]I don't think the loss of Towns can be understated. Right or wrong, everything is built around him[/b].

I have hardly missed a Wolves game since their beginning. If they trade Kat, I'm done with this franchise.

Towns is going to ask for a trade at the end of this summer, bet.

[Nick K]

[b]I don't think the loss of Towns can be understated. Right or wrong, everything is built around him[/b].

I have hardly missed a Wolves game since their beginning. If they trade Kat, I'm done with this franchise.

Towns is going to ask for a trade at the end of this summer, bet.

I really don't think so.

If they trade Dlo, Ricky, and fire Ryan then I think he might go. 50/50.

[Jedzz]

I'm still confident the team will improve. Towns coming back will be a moderate upgrade. Towns, Dlo, and Beasley alone can win some games. I expect we will make a trade for a frontcourt player at some point, if we get a decent one, that's another moderate improvement to the team.

From there we will be looking to round the roster out with better permiter play and maybe some additional frontcourt help. All of that probably wont come together this season but we should spend the season trying to develop what we have into those roles and scouring the market for those players.

I expect us to end the season playing close to .500 ball with a healthy KAT and new frontcourt player.In large part, due to tihs terrible start we will probably wind up with a 1st in the 5-12 range which will go to GS.

Now is the time to start getting vets who can play and filling in the gaps of the team. We will still try to develop young guys who look like they can help us but if we feel they can't we will package them to fill out the roster better.

I don't think the loss of Towns can be understated. Right or wrong, everything is built around him.

It's a simple team issue. Lebron alone does not win. Jordan alone does not win.

Maybe Wilt Chamberlain could have. Not sure, but not really.

It isn't about Kat, it's about who the team puts into the team around Kat, how well they fit or don't, how good they actually are, and any number of other variables. The focus on KAT is our mistake to blame a player when it's the team fault things haven't progressed from there. There has been many drafts and offseasons of moves since him. All of which were opportunities to find more KAT level impacts to this roster, or less random selections of players chosen to fit around Kat, or random BPA dumbchit theories, whatever you choose. But make no mistake, those choices and additions will impact your outcome more than Kat does alone.

The way the team was contructed does make Kat missing feel like an impassable roadblock.

[Jedzz]

Imagine a team that had at minimum a viable player in each slot. PG,SG,SF,PF,C. Not all stars, none of them. Just viable NBA average starters in each role. Now imagine adding that extra energy someone like Beasley is always putting into games. Add his ability to shoot at elite levels when everything is clicking. Now add Dlo's ability to slice through multiple defenders to get a jumper off. Now add Kat's abilities above the norm. All their little extra things that these unique players have now become steps above the average and give your team a chance to be more than average.

The problem is, there isn't a team environment of at minimum an average NBA starter at each position or role need for this game. So now we end up relying on the extra abilities of the better player just to even try to reach an average level. Surprise, you are losing your tail when one of them is out. PG PG SG SF C and benchers in a few of those roles doesn't seem like a plan I'm signing on with.


What is tanking going to do to fix this if you don't start building an environment to play in?