Tim Duncan "hates a lot of things" about the modern NBA

[LakerLegend]

Duncan played in BOTH ERAS...so he knows what he's talking about.

[JayMKE]

Is there a more overused meme in existence?

It’s fine when it’s well used. This case was not

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

[Sharkboy242]

It annoys the hell out of me that Jokic gets very little whistles when he posts up but then they give him all these calls in his favor for ticky tack stuff outside the paint. The perception is he gets a lot of fouls but if you look closely he hardly gets an FTs despite the fact that he takes the most beatings in the post/paint.

[whatchaknow]

High school and college are more physical than the NBA today.

You are allowed to bump and be physical on the perimeter as long as you don't affect the shot. You are also allowed, inside, to own the space you're in. Its much more routine that opposing players "own" the same space on the interior, and extremely unlikely that it happens on the perimeter. On the perimeter, you take a shot expecting to land cleanly. You dont usually have someone inside your jersey when you take the shot. In the paint, its very different.

What exactly does he want? The hand-check rule coming back? Or does he want more fouls on the interior?

Nah, this is just an old man complaining about a sport naturally evolving. No one hits singles and moves the runner over anymore! No one runs the ball 40 times a game anymore! Sports evolve and players need to to stay relevant.

You know that's not true and I don't think you really believe that's how it's officiated either. Nowadays the shot attempt happens because there was a bump. Players literally feel a bump or see the defender left his arm too close, and swing their arms through into a 'shot attempt'.

Right lol. I mean yeah sure you can be physical but the perimeter players know they’re gonna get bailed out so they use it against you. Therefore no you actually can’t EFFECTIVELY play physical defense. And guys just drive into a player in a legal guarding position, hit them square in the body, fall to the ground and wind up with fts. It is what it is, makes it hard for me to watch too many games outside of blazers games. Shoot I get annoyed watching dame do these things every game

[trickshot]

Almost like past players don't voice their opinion on this matter because the "old men yells at clouds mob" will inevitably jump down their throat despite it being a big elephant in the room. There is zero physicality in today's game and bigs are definitely neutralized

Good to see a respected legend take a stance on this

Read his point. He said there is too much physicality allowed on post players not that there is zero physicality in today's game

[FNQ]

You know that's not true and I don't think you really believe that's how it's officiated either. Nowadays the shot attempt happens because there was a bump. Players literally feel a bump or see the defender left his arm too close, and swing their arms through into a 'shot attempt'.

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

I didn't say anything about a moving screen I'm talking about man-to-man perimeter defense.

I don't know, man, seems like he's making a pretty well reasoned argument to me.

There's a lot of contact that goes uncalled. The difference is pure body contact is seen differently than something that impedes the arms, which happens more on the perimeter. I mean in the Laker game, AD and LeBron backed our players down from the 3pt line, with constant contact all the way through.. body on body, just like inside, no foul

[FNQ]

It’s fine when it’s well used. This case was not

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

[LakerLegend]

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

You know the rules have literally been changed so the players can't be as physical as they were right.

They.literally.changed.the.TEXT.

[Metallikid]

It’s fine when it’s well used. This case was not

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

Yeah, I love the Raptors but the three point chucking is genuinely hard to watch, as has been the suspiciously terrible officiating this season.

[wade44]

Almost like past players don't voice their opinion on this matter because the "old men yells at clouds mob" will inevitably jump down their throat despite it being a big elephant in the room. There is zero physicality in today's game and bigs are definitely neutralized

Good to see a respected legend take a stance on this

Read his point. He said there is too much physicality allowed on post players not that there is zero physicality in today's game

I understand what he said. Bigs are a marginalized class of their own and are neutralized. Why do you feel the need to nitpick my post as if it makes it an less true?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

In this case, was it an organic change... when teams realized that the traditional post-ups were simple too inefficient... by how the game is being called inside vs. the perimeter? Or, do you think it's a skill thing? Analytics thing? Other?

[-Sammy-]

You are allowed to bump and be physical on the perimeter as long as you don't affect the shot. You are also allowed, inside, to own the space you're in. Its much more routine that opposing players "own" the same space on the interior, and extremely unlikely that it happens on the perimeter. On the perimeter, you take a shot expecting to land cleanly. You dont usually have someone inside your jersey when you take the shot. In the paint, its very different.

What exactly does he want? The hand-check rule coming back? Or does he want more fouls on the interior?

Nah, this is just an old man complaining about a sport naturally evolving. No one hits singles and moves the runner over anymore! No one runs the ball 40 times a game anymore! Sports evolve and players need to to stay relevant.

You know that's not true and I don't think you really believe that's how it's officiated either. Nowadays the shot attempt happens because there was a bump. Players literally feel a bump or see the defender left his arm too close, and swing their arms through into a 'shot attempt'.

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

Respectfully, it's cool that you disagree about the state of the game, what you prefer to see on-court, etc., but when you dismiss the insight of an all-time great, someone who's esteemed throughout the sport for his high BBIQ, and a guy who retired less than five years ago as just 'old-man rambling,' you diminish the legitimacy of your perspective and you come across as reactionary and defensive.

[Lockdown504090]

High school and college are more physical than the NBA today.

You are allowed to bump and be physical on the perimeter as long as you don't affect the shot. You are also allowed, inside, to own the space you're in. Its much more routine that opposing players "own" the same space on the interior, and extremely unlikely that it happens on the perimeter. On the perimeter, you take a shot expecting to land cleanly. You dont usually have someone inside your jersey when you take the shot. In the paint, its very different.

What exactly does he want? The hand-check rule coming back? Or does he want more fouls on the interior?

Nah, this is just an old man complaining about a sport naturally evolving. No one hits singles and moves the runner over anymore! No one runs the ball 40 times a game anymore! Sports evolve and players need to to stay relevant.

so whats freedom of movement? that doesnt apply to back to basket play, coaches are actively encouraging this. I have personally heard rick carslie talk about what tims saying and I asked nick nurse about it, and he said he only allowed it if its to make the player happy so they do other things well, or because kawhi has crackhead strength and cant be moved.

what youre saying is incorrect because you are allowed to move a player off their spot in the post if you dont use your shoulder, thigh or hands to move them, this is not allowed on the perimeter and is considered an impediment to the progress of a player.

The issue is that one part of the game has been made easier for the offense, whereas the other has not in the post. There is not a rule change or interpretation you can point to that has specifically made posting up less physical.

[FNQ]

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

You know the rules have literally been changed so the players can't be as physical as they were right.

They.literally.changed.the.TEXT.

You mean the rule I referenced in almost every post but this one? I'm aware

It disallowed contact that moved the offensive player off their position when they had the ball, unless they had their back to the basket and were 'near' the hoop. Love that rule. Makes the game a lot more watchable in that the game is based on skill, and not which 7' could throw his ass around more

[prophet_of_rage]

You are allowed to bump and be physical on the perimeter as long as you don't affect the shot. You are also allowed, inside, to own the space you're in. Its much more routine that opposing players "own" the same space on the interior, and extremely unlikely that it happens on the perimeter. On the perimeter, you take a shot expecting to land cleanly. You dont usually have someone inside your jersey when you take the shot. In the paint, its very different.

What exactly does he want? The hand-check rule coming back? Or does he want more fouls on the interior?

Nah, this is just an old man complaining about a sport naturally evolving. No one hits singles and moves the runner over anymore! No one runs the ball 40 times a game anymore! Sports evolve and players need to to stay relevant.

You know that's not true and I don't think you really believe that's how it's officiated either. Nowadays the shot attempt happens because there was a bump. Players literally feel a bump or see the defender left his arm too close, and swing their arms through into a 'shot attempt'.

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

That's not a moving screen situation which is an offensive foul, if called. Perimter players are allowed to rip through, the defender cannot put hands on a face up for balance (not hand checking), and you cannot bump a cutter.

He's arguing that the same defensive calls should be made inside as they are outside. Why should there be so much reward for playing one spot on the floor over the other?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[og15]

Almost like past players don't voice their opinion on this matter because the "old men yells at clouds mob" will inevitably jump down their throat despite it being a big elephant in the room. There is zero physicality in today's game and bigs are definitely neutralized

Good to see a respected legend take a stance on this

Why would they be concerned about this though? In the spaces that they can give these opinions, there's no old men yells at clouds mob, and even if there is, why should they fear that mob?

This is basically one of the points that brought up over and over. Bigs don't get the same leeway as smalls when it comes to physicality.

Tim didn't say there is zero physicality though, in fact he's even suggesting that there is much more of physicality allowed on bigs than on perimeter players.

[JayMKE]

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

Whatever you say bro, I don’t take seriously the opinions of modern basketball from fans of GS and Stephen Curry. You’re defending the legacy of your championship teams, not the actual quality of play which is fine but definite conflict of interest. Lebron fans are also very defensive of this era even tho Lebron would have been one of the GOAT regardless of when he played. The refs not calling moving screens and calling fouls on perimeter defenders for breathing on their guy has nothing to do with little guys being more skilled, it’s just that Adam Silver’s NBA is all about cash grabs and marketing a small number of star players.

Not everything in the world is great and getting better, there is a lack of balance in the NBA that most long time fans of the sport are disgusted in. The are rules that need to change 100% and honestly I’d go as far as getting rid of the 3 point line to kill off the analytic nonsense that encourages 30 ft fast break 3s and both teams chucking 80+ of them a game.

[FNQ]

so whats freedom of movement? that doesnt apply to back to basket play, coaches are actively encouraging this. I have personally heard rick carslie talk about what tims saying and I asked nick nurse about it, and he said he only allowed it if its to make the player happy so they do other things well, or because kawhi has crackhead strength and cant be moved.

what youre saying is incorrect because you are allowed to move a player off their spot in the post if you dont use your shoulder, thigh or hands to move them, this is not allowed on the perimeter and is considered an impediment to the progress of a player.

The issue is that one part of the game has been made easier for the offense, whereas the other has not in the post. There is not a rule change or interpretation you can point to that has specifically made posting up less physical.

I dont think I'm making the arguments you are arguing against. You are allowed to move players in the post with your body, the fight for position. You are allowed that consistent contact by rule. You are not allowed that consistent contact away from the rim.

However you are allowed quick, non-extended contact, anywhere on the court as long as you aren't physically impeding the player's balance

Makes the game a whole lot better and because it didnt help Duncan, whereas the old rules were very slanted to help players like Duncan, Duncan grouses. Stay retired bud, the game is a lot more fun these days

[FNQ]

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

Whatever you say bro, I don’t take seriously the opinions of modern basketball from fans of GS and Stephen Curry. You’re defending the legacy of your championship teams, not the actual quality of play which is fine but definite conflict of interest. Lebron fans are also very defensive of this era even tho Lebron would have been one of the GOAT regardless of when he played. The refs not calling moving screens and calling fouls on perimeter defenders for breathing on their guy.

Not everything in the world is great and getting better, there is a lack of balance in the NBA that most long time fans of the sport are disgusted in. The are rules that need to change 100% and honestly I’d go as far as getting rid of the 3 point line to kill off the analytic nonsense that encourages 30 ft fast break 3s and both teams chucking 80+ of them a game.

lol super ironic from the guy complaining about complainers just a few posts ago, so no real reason to read beyond the first line

[FNQ]

You know that's not true and I don't think you really believe that's how it's officiated either. Nowadays the shot attempt happens because there was a bump. Players literally feel a bump or see the defender left his arm too close, and swing their arms through into a 'shot attempt'.

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

That's not a moving screen situation which is an offensive foul, if called. Perimter players are allowed to rip through, the defender cannot put hands on a face up for balance (not hand checking), and you cannot bump a cutter.

He's arguing that the same defensive calls should be made inside as they are outside. Why should there be so much reward for playing one spot on the floor over the other?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

The irony being that the reward used to go to the big men who can absorb the contact, and now that that's not the case, they complain. Game's a lot more exciting and marketable when you get to see skilled players show off their skills, rather than 7 footers bumping into each other