Tim Duncan "hates a lot of things" about the modern NBA

[John Murdoch]

TDunks speakin truth , if it was an equal whistle Embiid would be a top 3 player

[Metallikid]

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

That's not a moving screen situation which is an offensive foul, if called. Perimter players are allowed to rip through, the defender cannot put hands on a face up for balance (not hand checking), and you cannot bump a cutter.

He's arguing that the same defensive calls should be made inside as they are outside. Why should there be so much reward for playing one spot on the floor over the other?

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The irony being that the reward used to go to the big men who can absorb the contact, and now that that's not the case, they complain. Game's a lot more exciting and marketable when you get to see skilled players show off their skills, rather than 7 footers bumping into each other

Skill is making the hard shot through contact. We don't get to see that anymore.

[JayMKE]

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

Whatever you say bro, I don’t take seriously the opinions of modern basketball from fans of GS and Stephen Curry. You’re defending the legacy of your championship teams, not the actual quality of play which is fine but definite conflict of interest. Lebron fans are also very defensive of this era even tho Lebron would have been one of the GOAT regardless of when he played. The refs not calling moving screens and calling fouls on perimeter defenders for breathing on their guy.

Not everything in the world is great and getting better, there is a lack of balance in the NBA that most long time fans of the sport are disgusted in. The are rules that need to change 100% and honestly I’d go as far as getting rid of the 3 point line to kill off the analytic nonsense that encourages 30 ft fast break 3s and both teams chucking 80+ of them a game.

lol super ironic from the guy complaining about complainers just a few posts ago, so no real reason to read beyond the first line

Complaining about complainers complaining about complainers? Huh? What do you think the whole point of the old man yells at cloud nonsense? It’s not eVoLuTiOn, it’s the way the game has been deliberately made to benefit the NBAs favorite delicate perimeter stars.

[Sofia]

Is there a more overused meme in existence?

It’s fine when it’s well used. This case was not

Works fine. He’s grousing about his good old days which really plays well with basketball purists (re: similar complainers)

His style is dead, basketball continues to grow in popularity, and the GB whiffs again

I understand the meme.

If Tim just said “it was better when I played” I would agree... but as another poster pointed out, he has spoke about the way the rules are interpreted in certain situations and the flow on effect it has on allowing players to utilise skill sets.

Just because a retired player doesn’t like something doesn’t automatically make it cloud yelling

[FNQ]

That's not a moving screen situation which is an offensive foul, if called. Perimter players are allowed to rip through, the defender cannot put hands on a face up for balance (not hand checking), and you cannot bump a cutter.

He's arguing that the same defensive calls should be made inside as they are outside. Why should there be so much reward for playing one spot on the floor over the other?

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The irony being that the reward used to go to the big men who can absorb the contact, and now that that's not the case, they complain. Game's a lot more exciting and marketable when you get to see skilled players show off their skills, rather than 7 footers bumping into each other

Skill is making the hard shot through contact. We don't get to see that anymore.

I mean we do see that, we just dont see it as often because there are better shots to take than that now. I mean really, if stats people were listened to back in the day, this was the way the game was going to evolve anyways. And the next evolution will be the 3pt line and court size, to accommodate a bigger 3pt line

As for the foul drawing, do people not remember the constant up and under fouls? Its the same principle used but now on the 3pt line.. players who were driving and got hit back in the 80s and 90s also tried to throw up shots once the contact came.. the handcheck rule came in and changed the game but on the perimeter only, because treating the perimeter and the post the same was a bad idea and hampered skilled players and entertaining basketball

[FNQ]

Just because a retired player doesn’t like something doesn’t automatically make it cloud yelling

Correct, I've outlined why I think its that way though. Its grousing about something that needed to happen to make the game better, and he doesnt like it, he prefers the old way, the way it was when he grew up playing, and damn this new way

Seems pretty spot on but whatever. Like I said, basketball purists are gonna love this but the money and ratings don't lie, it was great for the game

[zimpy27]

Bigs are really screwed over by the rules. I have issues with how easy it is for bigs to get into foul trouble. If a perimeter player drives, and it's so easy to drive when everybody's scared of the 3 point shot, bigs sometimes literally have to move away if they want to avoid the foul call. If bigs could have more personal fouls allowed, at least your starting C, I think it would balance a lot of that out, because teams whose 1st option is a big often can't play him because of the foul trouble, like Jokic, Embiid, Towns etc.

Part of the reasoning is that being tall is more of a pre-requisite to being good at basketball than skill level. They are trying to change that.

Is chucking 30 ft shots and flopping at every hint of contact more skill than big man post game?

Well, it would have to be right. For every guy over 6'5 there are 1000 people shorter. So the best players under 6'5 have it way tougher to outcompete other guys of a similar height and they can only do that through skill. It's also far easier to develop a post-game than a reliable outside jumper.

[prophet_of_rage]

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

In this case, was it an organic change... when teams realized that the traditional post-ups were simple too inefficient... by how the game is being called inside vs. the perimeter? Or, do you think it's a skill thing? Analytics thing? Other?

It's a ratings thing. They changed the rules for the scores to increase.

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[LakerLegend]

Part of the reasoning is that being tall is more of a pre-requisite to being good at basketball than skill level. They are trying to change that.

Is chucking 30 ft shots and flopping at every hint of contact more skill than big man post game?

Well, it would have to be right. For every guy over 6'5 there are 1000 people shorter. So the best players under 6'5 have it way tougher to outcompete other guys of a similar height and they can only do that through skill. It's also far easier to develop a post-game than a reliable outside jumper.

I'd say that is quite debatable.

Size is always going to matter in basketball so long as the rim is 10 feet above the ground.

[-Sammy-]

Just because a retired player doesn’t like something doesn’t automatically make it cloud yelling

Correct, I've outlined why I think its that way though.

Duncan also outlined why he takes issue with it. If it's not cloud-yelling when you do it, you should grant him the same respect you've given yourself.

Its grousing about something that needed to happen to make the game better...

'Better' is a value judgment-- some folks think it's better, some don't. The fact that you do doesn't negate his viewpoint, and since he's buttressing his expression of that viewpoint with analysis and insight, you shouldn't be dismissive of it just because you disagree with his conclusions.

By all means, disagree and tell us why, but you should stop with the 'old-man' stuff. For heaven's sake-- the man was on the championship team that immediately-preceded the Curry-era Ws' first title team; this isn't a guy who retired 30 years ago. Kerr's Ws may even owe a little something of their playstyle to the one my Spurs used to win that title.

Like I said, basketball purists are gonna love this but the money and ratings don't lie, it was great for the game

It's not all about money and ratings. BTS and Cardi B sell more records than Radiohead and John Coltrane; I doubt anyone thinks it's because music aficionados are doing the buying.

What's good for the league as a business and what's good for the game as a game aren't necessarily the same thing.

[JayMKE]

Part of the reasoning is that being tall is more of a pre-requisite to being good at basketball than skill level. They are trying to change that.

Is chucking 30 ft shots and flopping at every hint of contact more skill than big man post game?

Well, it would have to be right. For every guy over 6'5 there are 1000 people shorter. So the best players under 6'5 have it way tougher to reach their peak. It's also far easier to develop a post-game than a reliable outside jumper.

Is it? I’m seeing a lot of guys who would not even be in the league if not for their 3 point chucking. The post never completely monopolized the game like 3 point chucking has, monopolies aren’t a good thing and should disprove any silly notion of “well they get ratings/make money so it must be good”

[CIN-C-STAR]

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

You know the rules have literally been changed so the players can't be as physical as they were right.

They.literally.changed.the.TEXT.

You mean the rule I referenced in almost every post but this one? I'm aware

It disallowed contact that moved the offensive player off their position when they had the ball, unless they had their back to the basket and were 'near' the hoop. Love that rule. Makes the game a lot more watchable in that the game is based on skill, and not which 7' could throw his ass around more

Imagine thinking that pump faking and then intentionally throwing yourself into the defender and then getting FTs was the height of "skill"
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but personally I think an up-and-under move is both more skillful and more entertaining than ref baiting and a FT parade.

[The_Hater]

The moral of the story, a lot of people hate change and a lot of people long for the ‘good ole days’. Those 2 things will always exist.

[FNQ]

Duncan also outlined why he takes issue with it. If it's not cloud-yelling when you do it, then grant him the same respect you grant yourself.

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs. It's funny because its not relevant, not changing, and the game is infinitely more watchable because its not as slow-rolled and boring.

'Better' is a value judgment-- some folks think it's better, some don't. The fact that you do doesn't negate his viewpoint, and since he's buttressing his expression of that viewpoint with analysis and insight, you shouldn't be dismissive of it just because you disagree with his conclusions.

By all means, disagree and tell us why, but you should stop with the 'old-man' stuff. For heaven's sake-- the man was on the championship team that immediately-preceded the Curry-era Ws' first title team; this isn't a guy who retired 30 years ago. Kerr's Ws may even owe a little something of their playstyle to the one my Spurs used to win that title.
It's not all about money and ratings. BTS and Cardi B sell more records than Radiohead and John Coltrane; I doubt anyone thinks it's because music aficionados are doing the buying.

What's good for the league as a business and what's good for the game as a game aren't necessarily the same thing.

So the issue is with calling him old? I mean.. ok.

But what's good for the business is good for the game more so than what a basketball purist would want. The owners arent sitting around trying to figure out how to appeal to purists more. They are trying to make money, gain exposure, and spread the game out. If people think this is a NBA thing, think again. All world leagues are trending this way because it makes for a better product. If fans want to be the same MLB fans who opined about how starters would go 11 innings per game and how RBs had 400 touches every year, go for it. It's the definition of yelling at a cloud - its not changing, and the yelling is futile

[JN61]

He is right. You can get away with a murder in post, while you are allowed to barrel through defenders while driving from outside and just falling down while jump shooting means you get to line.

Or better yet, the new phenom of Driving, stopping and pushing off defender that is next to you and it is foul.... That one player in Atlanta does that.

[-Sammy-]

Duncan also outlined why he takes issue with it. If it's not cloud-yelling when you do it, then grant him the same respect you grant yourself.

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs.

And you're grousing about how the game used to be worse than it is now. You should stop dismissing the analysis of others as 'grousing.'

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs. It's funny because its not relevant

By whose authority is it not relevant? Yours? The guy you're dismissing was a coach in this league six months ago and a player less than five years ago. What is your claim to relevance?

...the game is infinitely more watchable because its not as slow-rolled and boring.

But what's good for the business is good for the game more so than what a basketball purist would want. The owners arent sitting around trying to figure out how to appeal to purists more. They are trying to make money, gain exposure, and spread the game out. If people think this is a NBA thing, think again. All world leagues are trending this way because it makes for a better product. If fans want to be the same MLB fans who opined about how starters would go 11 innings per game and how RBs had 400 touches every year, go for it. It's the definition of yelling at a cloud - its not changing, and the yelling is futile

[FNQ]

Duncan also outlined why he takes issue with it. If it's not cloud-yelling when you do it, then grant him the same respect you grant yourself.

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs.

And you're grousing about how the game used to be worse than it is now. You should stop dismissing the analysis of others as 'grousing.'

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs. It's funny because its not relevant

By whose authority is it not relevant? Yours? The guy you're dismissing was a coach in this league six months ago and a player less than five years ago. What is your claim to relevance?

...the game is infinitely more watchable because its not as slow-rolled and boring.

But what's good for the business is good for the game more so than what a basketball purist would want. The owners arent sitting around trying to figure out how to appeal to purists more. They are trying to make money, gain exposure, and spread the game out. If people think this is a NBA thing, think again. All world leagues are trending this way because it makes for a better product. If fans want to be the same MLB fans who opined about how starters would go 11 innings per game and how RBs had 400 touches every year, go for it. It's the definition of yelling at a cloud - its not changing, and the yelling is futile

lol weirdly taking it personal to defend your guy but ok. I'm saying the way it is isn't changing and I'm glad it isn't. I guess that's complaining, but i'm getting what I want, and Duncan isn't. And others who don't like my opinion aren't either

[prophet_of_rage]

So you mean a moving screen then? That’s obviously different.

There is no-call contact on the perimeter all the time, and it wasn’t much different in the old days after the hand check. Perimeter drivers now seek out contact because once the hand-check rule was abolished, playing perimeter defense was tougher and let more skilled offensive players shine

Just an old man grousing about the good ol days

That's not a moving screen situation which is an offensive foul, if called. Perimter players are allowed to rip through, the defender cannot put hands on a face up for balance (not hand checking), and you cannot bump a cutter.

He's arguing that the same defensive calls should be made inside as they are outside. Why should there be so much reward for playing one spot on the floor over the other?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

The irony being that the reward used to go to the big men who can absorb the contact, and now that that's not the case, they complain. Game's a lot more exciting and marketable when you get to see skilled players show off their skills, rather than 7 footers bumping into each other

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

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[FNQ]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

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Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

[-Sammy-]

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs.

And you're grousing about how the game used to be worse than it is now. You should stop dismissing the analysis of others as 'grousing.'

I'm sure old Abe made some poignant arguments to that cloud. He's grousing about the game used to be better when the slant tilted towards the bigs. It's funny because its not relevant

By whose authority is it not relevant? Yours? The guy you're dismissing was a coach in this league six months ago and a player less than five years ago. What is your claim to relevance?

...the game is infinitely more watchable because its not as slow-rolled and boring.

But what's good for the business is good for the game more so than what a basketball purist would want. The owners arent sitting around trying to figure out how to appeal to purists more. They are trying to make money, gain exposure, and spread the game out. If people think this is a NBA thing, think again. All world leagues are trending this way because it makes for a better product. If fans want to be the same MLB fans who opined about how starters would go 11 innings per game and how RBs had 400 touches every year, go for it. It's the definition of yelling at a cloud - its not changing, and the yelling is futile

lol weirdly taking it personal to defend your guy but ok. I'm saying the way it is isn't changing and I'm glad it isn't. I guess that's complaining, but i'm getting what I want, and Duncan isn't. And others who don't like my opinion aren't either

Ha ha-- I'm not taking it personally; that stuff was for a laugh, so if you took it another way, I hope this clears it up.

I'm sincerely glad you like the way it is now and I'm happy your team has gotten some success out of it, but the position that this is the final phase of the evolution of a relatively young sport that's been evolving constantly since its invention is pretty shaky. That seems a lot like stocking up on this year's most stylish outfits because you don't expect fashion to change anymore after this season.

'The way it is' is basically guaranteed to change, despite your proclamations to the contrary, so I hope you get what you can out of it while the getting's good. Until that inevitability is upon us, I think you ought to be less dismissive of other viewpoints just because the style you like happens to be couture in this moment.