Tim Duncan "hates a lot of things" about the modern NBA

[Capn'O]

Of course he's right

[ITYSL]

TDunks speakin truth , if it was an equal whistle Embiid would be a top 3 player

Horrible example to try to make Duncan's point. Embiid has a FTr of .631, way above average, and he's 3rd in FTA per game.

[CIN-C-STAR]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

The Sky Hook was Kareem Abdul Jabbar's signature move.
Olajuwon's signature move was The Dream Shake.
Are you sure you even watched basketball before the current era, or are you just proclaiming it the best because it's "your" era?

[VDT]

I think there are some different things in effect here.

One is the rule changes because the NBA wanted to fabricate the next Jordan.

The other is the whole analytics revolution.

The modern NBA is the result of these two but they are not the same.

Even with the previous rules the game would have changed because the analytics would show which are the optimal plays and the entire league would spam those. The more perimeter oriented game has simply shifted the optimal plays and has increased the importance of perimeter players.

To a degree NBA's plan has backfired, precisely because these two parameters are not linked. I dont think the current barrage of 3s provides any entertainment to most fans and it is not something that the NBA aimed for with the rule changes. Rather, it was the result of the rule changes and the more analytic approach to the game.

[FNQ]

And you're grousing about how the game used to be worse than it is now. You should stop dismissing the analysis of others as 'grousing.'



By whose authority is it not relevant? Yours? The guy you're dismissing was a coach in this league six months ago and a player less than five years ago. What is your claim to relevance?

lol weirdly taking it personal to defend your guy but ok. I'm saying the way it is isn't changing and I'm glad it isn't. I guess that's complaining, but i'm getting what I want, and Duncan isn't. And others who don't like my opinion aren't either

Ha ha-- I'm not taking it personally; that stuff was for a laugh, so if you took it another way, I hope this clears it up.

I'm sincerely glad you like the way it is now and I'm happy your team has gotten some success out of it, but the position that this is the final phase of the evolution of a relatively young sport that's been evolving constantly since its invention is pretty shaky. That seems a lot like stocking up on this year's most stylish outfits because you don't expect fashion to change anymore after this season.

'The way it is' is basically guaranteed to change, despite your proclamations to the contrary, so I hope you get what you can out of it while the getting's good. Until that inevitability is upon us, I think you ought to be less dismissive of other viewpoints just because the style you like happens to be couture in this moment.

ok good, because you always seem like youre having a good time here and that's all im doing too

Oh I dont think its the final phase at all. I'll be that old man one day opining about how the game was simpler, while Antoine Walker's kids hoist 5 pointers from halfcourt like a rock n jock game. I just don't think its going to revert back to the Duncan, big-man era of ball. Sports is progressing to the point where its concerned with the long-term prognosis for the athlete, which means less contact and more protection. So while I doubt that Duncan's era ever comes back, this era (let's call it the Steph era ) will ultimately become history for the era. I dont think the progress will be cyclical

[NO-KG-AI]

A huge part of Tim's game was the fact that he would face up and bait cheap fouls in the lane with running hooks and things. One of the reasons he performed so poorly in international play was the fact that he couldn't just cakewalk to the foul line when he wanted to and he got pissy.

[FNQ]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

The Sky Hook was Kareem Abdul Jabbar's signature move.
Olajuwon's signature move was The Dream Shake.
Are you sure you even watched basketball before the current era, or are you just proclaiming it the best because it's "your" era?

Must have been dreaming when I saw Hakeem hit all those sky hooks then. I didnt get to see Kareem play, but its super cool that NBA players had unique finishing moves. I do seem to recall someone stopping a Rockets game one time after Hakeem hit a sky hook, and it was taken off the board because of some copyright infringement dispute. Crazy times man

[Capn'O]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

The Sky Hook was Kareem Abdul Jabbar's signature move.
Olajuwon's signature move was The Dream Shake.
Are you sure you even watched basketball before the current era, or are you just proclaiming it the best because it's "your" era?

What. You don't remember Patrick Ewing's "Sweat Move?"

[HMFFL]

Tim is correct.
Even on messages boards like Realgm posters don't give big men enough credit or maybe they don't realize how much of a pounding they take in the post.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[-Sammy-]

lol weirdly taking it personal to defend your guy but ok. I'm saying the way it is isn't changing and I'm glad it isn't. I guess that's complaining, but i'm getting what I want, and Duncan isn't. And others who don't like my opinion aren't either

Ha ha-- I'm not taking it personally; that stuff was for a laugh, so if you took it another way, I hope this clears it up.

I'm sincerely glad you like the way it is now and I'm happy your team has gotten some success out of it, but the position that this is the final phase of the evolution of a relatively young sport that's been evolving constantly since its invention is pretty shaky. That seems a lot like stocking up on this year's most stylish outfits because you don't expect fashion to change anymore after this season.

'The way it is' is basically guaranteed to change, despite your proclamations to the contrary, so I hope you get what you can out of it while the getting's good. Until that inevitability is upon us, I think you ought to be less dismissive of other viewpoints just because the style you like happens to be couture in this moment.

ok good, because you always seem like youre having a good time here and that's all im doing too

Oh I dont think its the final phase at all. I'll be that old man one day opining about how the game was simpler, while Antoine Walker's kids hoist 5 pointers from halfcourt like a rock n jock game.

Dammit-- you won me over. If you haven't seen it yet, check this out:

Watch on YouTube

I just don't think its going to revert back to the Duncan, big-man era of ball. Sports is progressing to the point where its concerned with the long-term prognosis for the athlete, which means less contact and more protection. So while I doubt that Duncan's era ever comes back, this era (let's call it the Steph era ) will ultimately become history for the era. I dont think the progress will be cyclical

I partly agree and partly hope you're wrong. I think in the short-term, your prognosis is good, but longer-term, I think they'll find ways to integrate technology into sports that will allow athletes to get much more physical without putting themselves at risk. Tech stuff we wouldn't even think of.

But maybe by then, guys like us will be grousing about why our driverless hovercars have bad attitudes and reminiscing about the days when Gatorade was only 5 Bitcoins a bottle.

[Capn'O]

It's not going back, in part because the stretch big is such a useful tool. Bigs are generally a lot more versatile now. Why would you change that? Or the number of players that can hit a three generally? If Patrick Ewing came up today, he'd 100% have a three ball. That all said, the league could certainly unlock the post a bit and crack down on the foul hunting. For all the things that are good about today's game, I don't think those items are really that controversial.

[alebaba]

He's not wrong, the defenders are allow to play way more physical in the post expecially if you're a big man.

[FNQ]

Ha ha-- I'm not taking it personally; that stuff was for a laugh, so if you took it another way, I hope this clears it up.

I'm sincerely glad you like the way it is now and I'm happy your team has gotten some success out of it, but the position that this is the final phase of the evolution of a relatively young sport that's been evolving constantly since its invention is pretty shaky. That seems a lot like stocking up on this year's most stylish outfits because you don't expect fashion to change anymore after this season.

'The way it is' is basically guaranteed to change, despite your proclamations to the contrary, so I hope you get what you can out of it while the getting's good. Until that inevitability is upon us, I think you ought to be less dismissive of other viewpoints just because the style you like happens to be couture in this moment.

ok good, because you always seem like youre having a good time here and that's all im doing too

Oh I dont think its the final phase at all. I'll be that old man one day opining about how the game was simpler, while Antoine Walker's kids hoist 5 pointers from halfcourt like a rock n jock game.

Dammit-- you won me over. If you haven't seen it yet, check this out:

Watch on YouTube

I just don't think its going to revert back to the Duncan, big-man era of ball. Sports is progressing to the point where its concerned with the long-term prognosis for the athlete, which means less contact and more protection. So while I doubt that Duncan's era ever comes back, this era (let's call it the Steph era ) will ultimately become history for the era. I dont think the progress will be cyclical

I partly agree and partly hope you're wrong. I think in the short-term, your prognosis is good, but longer-term, I think they'll find ways to integrate technology into sports that will allow athletes to get much more physical without putting themselves at risk. Tech stuff we wouldn't even think of.

But maybe by then, guys like us will be grousing about why our driverless hovercars have bad attitudes and reminiscing about the days when Gatorade was only 5 Bitcoins a bottle.

And we can always tell the kids we had to walk 5 miles in the snow, uphill both ways, to get it. They're dumb, they'll believe anything

That commercial... is simultaneously the best and worst commercial I've ever seen. Lost it at the moving basket. How did I miss that one??

And now to put on my old man hat - I definitely fear what sports technology is down the bend. Not so much for football, because I think they're on a good path to not scramble everyone's brains, but for baseball and basketball? Definitely. Maybe too dystopian but can imagine it getting to the point where the best players are the best because they have the best tech/working knowledge of tech. And as someone in the tech industry now.. please don't let my people into sports, we're the worst

[FNQ]

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

The Sky Hook was Kareem Abdul Jabbar's signature move.
Olajuwon's signature move was The Dream Shake.
Are you sure you even watched basketball before the current era, or are you just proclaiming it the best because it's "your" era?

What. You don't remember Patrick Ewing's "Sweat Move?"

Ever see his cameo in Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise video? Dude can sing

[-Sammy-]

ok good, because you always seem like youre having a good time here and that's all im doing too

Oh I dont think its the final phase at all. I'll be that old man one day opining about how the game was simpler, while Antoine Walker's kids hoist 5 pointers from halfcourt like a rock n jock game.

Dammit-- you won me over. If you haven't seen it yet, check this out:

Watch on YouTube

I just don't think its going to revert back to the Duncan, big-man era of ball. Sports is progressing to the point where its concerned with the long-term prognosis for the athlete, which means less contact and more protection. So while I doubt that Duncan's era ever comes back, this era (let's call it the Steph era ) will ultimately become history for the era. I dont think the progress will be cyclical

I partly agree and partly hope you're wrong. I think in the short-term, your prognosis is good, but longer-term, I think they'll find ways to integrate technology into sports that will allow athletes to get much more physical without putting themselves at risk. Tech stuff we wouldn't even think of.

But maybe by then, guys like us will be grousing about why our driverless hovercars have bad attitudes and reminiscing about the days when Gatorade was only 5 Bitcoins a bottle.

And we can always tell the kids we had to walk 5 miles in the snow, uphill both ways, to get it. They're dumb, they'll believe anything

That commercial... is simultaneously the best and worst commercial I've ever seen. Lost it at the moving basket. How did I miss that one??

And now to put on my old man hat - I definitely fear what sports technology is down the bend. Not so much for football, because I think they're on a good path to not scramble everyone's brains, but for baseball and basketball? Definitely. Maybe too dystopian but can imagine it getting to the point where the best players are the best because they have the best tech/working knowledge of tech. And as someone in the tech industry now.. please don't let my people into sports, we're the worst

Ha ha... yeah, I see what you mean. Today's gamers and IT guys as tomorrow's Jordans and Kobes? Weird. And by then, VR gaming will be so advanced that every game will be full-body, so the most athletic people will be the best video-game players. Welcome to upside-down-world.

But in the shorter-term, there's a lot to be excited about. I think we're only a few years away from leagues being able to officiate with tech and eventually eliminate human refs. That is a day I'm looking forward to with heavy anticipation.

[prophet_of_rage]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

We'll disagree stylistically. The game should value all five positions. The rules don't encourage skill so much as they allow more to artificially increase scoring.

The current version of the game isn't beyond critique which you seem to think it is.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[FNQ]

The reward didn't go to post players before. The officiating of the post and perimeter was relatively balanced. Now the game is had advanced to the point of sameness. While there is more skill involved there is also an artificial limit on post play. Which is a shame because the game's best players generally played on the block.

There should be room for more styles in today's game not just pindowns and pick and rolls.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

We'll disagree stylistically. The game should value all five positions. The rules don't encourage skill so much as they allow more to artificially increase scoring.

The current version of the game isn't beyond critique which you seem to think it is.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

It’s not beyond critique, I think it’s better than before and will not be going back to the old style though

[prophet_of_rage]

Disagree that it was relatively balanced. The game tilted towards larger, more immobile bodies. The Greg Ostertag's of the world would be bench fodder, if even that, today. And I definitely disagree that the more skilled players played on the block.. sure it was cool when a few of them could sky hook like Olajuwon or sweat like Patrick Ewing, but give me the Kyrie's, the Giannis', the AD's... every day of the week. The people who's skill level can leave you in absolute awe. Never felt that in the old school game

We'll disagree stylistically. The game should value all five positions. The rules don't encourage skill so much as they allow more to artificially increase scoring.

The current version of the game isn't beyond critique which you seem to think it is.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

It’s not beyond critique, I think it’s better than before and will not be going back to the old style though

Duncan didn't say it needed tp go back, though. That's the issue with your dismissive old man argument. He critiqued the game and found the disparity in post contact to be an issue to address.

Is it a fair critique that opponent's should be allowed to hit you in the back and not the chest? Seems so to me.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[DaPessimist]

The NBA does not want players posting up on the block. They literally created a rule against it.

[Peregrine01]

Completely agree....can't play defense on the perimeter right now without fouling yet the refs turn a blind eye to what happens in the paint. NBA has to understand that no one wants to watch a free throw parade.