Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread

[hugepatsfan]

I don't understand the Smart hate. Well, actually I do. He was a terrible shooter when he came into the league. Marcus Smart his first 4 years in the league was someone you really didn't want taking any volume of shots. The last 3 years, he's become a different player. He's greatly improved on offense but perception hasn't caught up with it. Is he an AWESOME offensive player? Hell to the no. Is he a good one? Yes, very clearly. He was league average give or take a little in '18-19 and '19-20. He's had two bad games from 3 in a row now but prior to that was doing the same thing. As season sample size grows seems a great bet he ends up in that range again.

I'm not saying shot selection isn't a weakness at times. There are still a few times a game where he gets into the paint off the P&R but the defense has everything covered. In those situation he needs to get better at finding a way to kick it back out vs. throwing up a prayer at the rim. Overall he's a very good P&R ball handler. Issue is that he does it off of smarts (no pun intended) as opposed to sheer ball handling skill. So in some of those tightly contested defensive situations he has trouble aborting mission so he heaves a shot.

I don't understand what people want. He's a good, not great offensive player. He shoots a solid percentage from deep on high volume as both spot up and off the dribble shooter. He's a quality P&R ball handler. He's an extremely good quality 4th/5th option to run offense through on the floor at a time. He takes shot volume in line with that role.

Again, I'd love to see him improve his handle in tightly contested paint situations to be better at kicking back out, but that's a really hard skill. I don't think people are being realistic if they don't think your 4th/5th offensive option isn't going to have some deficiencies.

Personally I'd like him to accept what his role is. I'm not sure he's coachable in that way honestly (and I don't think Brad is great at handling egos and getting some players to accept their roles). If he accepted that he was a 4th or 5th option and worked harder to let those ahead of him get the shots then there would be no problem. Didn't he throw **** in the locker in the last playoffs after being called out on his shot selection?

He took 5th most shots on the team last year. Will be 4th this year once the top 3 play together. He was 2nd in assists last year could be team leader this year. Idk what your idea of accepting that role is. It’s exactly what he does. Your 4th/5th option is still going to shoot.

[Captain_Caveman]

I don't understand the Smart hate. Well, actually I do. He was a terrible shooter when he came into the league. Marcus Smart his first 4 years in the league was someone you really didn't want taking any volume of shots. The last 3 years, he's become a different player. He's greatly improved on offense but perception hasn't caught up with it. Is he an AWESOME offensive player? Hell to the no. Is he a good one? Yes, very clearly. He was league average give or take a little in '18-19 and '19-20. He's had two bad games from 3 in a row now but prior to that was doing the same thing. As season sample size grows seems a great bet he ends up in that range again.

I'm not saying shot selection isn't a weakness at times. There are still a few times a game where he gets into the paint off the P&R but the defense has everything covered. In those situation he needs to get better at finding a way to kick it back out vs. throwing up a prayer at the rim. Overall he's a very good P&R ball handler. Issue is that he does it off of smarts (no pun intended) as opposed to sheer ball handling skill. So in some of those tightly contested defensive situations he has trouble aborting mission so he heaves a shot.

I don't understand what people want. He's a good, not great offensive player. He shoots a solid percentage from deep on high volume as both spot up and off the dribble shooter. He's a quality P&R ball handler. He's an extremely good quality 4th/5th option to run offense through on the floor at a time. He takes shot volume in line with that role.

Again, I'd love to see him improve his handle in tightly contested paint situations to be better at kicking back out, but that's a really hard skill. I don't think people are being realistic if they don't think your 4th/5th offensive option isn't going to have some deficiencies.

Personally I'd like him to accept what his role is. I'm not sure he's coachable in that way honestly (and I don't think Brad is great at handling egos and getting some players to accept their roles). If he accepted that he was a 4th or 5th option and worked harder to let those ahead of him get the shots then there would be no problem. Didn't he throw **** in the locker in the last playoffs after being called out on his shot selection?

He took 5th most shots on the team last year. Will be 4th this year once the top 3 play together. He was 2nd in assists last year could be team leader this year. Idk what your idea of accepting that role is. It’s exactly what he does. Your 4th/5th option is still going to shoot.

This isn't difficult. It is well-proven by now that the dude barely shoots unless we are trying to make up for the loss of one or more 20 point per game scorers. Which somehow is always the case with this team. His ability to step into a bigger role has been a major asset for us year after year. We have won a ridiculously larger share of those shorthanded games than we had any business doing, including in the playoffs, and Smart has been a major reason why. Like dozens of shorthanded wins a year.

People criticizing the box score aesthetics of how that happens is a take so profoundly STUPID that it makes me embarrassed to even post here.

[Bleeding Green]

My only problem with Smart is the shots he takes. How many fadeaway 2s did he take last night? I don't care if he's on the floor with four Tristan Thompsons, that should never be a shot unless the play is completely broken and the shotclock is about to expire. If you have 8 seconds left on the clock and you're taking a fading 2? GTFO.

Yes, he takes a backseat when Brown, Tatum, Walker are all healthy, but ****, it's Year 7 for him and we have all the stats in the world to show that he is bottom 1% on ALL SHOTS besides open threes. He can't finish at the rim, his floater is ****, his midrange jumper is awful, it's all trash. Why ever take these shots besides in desperation situations?

I don't care that he's a 32 pct shooter from three, fine, take the open ones and it's all good. Maybe he'll shoot 40% some year when he only take the good ones. But why is he driving to the rim and lobbing grenades? We know he can't hit that shot. Drive and if it's wide open, take it, otherwise kick it out. He took eight shots last night between the paint and the 3pt line. He shot well in this one instance, but for his career he's awful from there. I know he is taking on a larger role than normal, but I'd be so much happier if he just launched pullup threes instead of garbo fadeaway 2s. They're both 30 pct shots, but at least one of them is worth 3 pts. Plus worst case, your d efense is back, or you get a chance at a long rebound. Plus it pisses off people in the game threads, so win-win-win from my POV. Launch that ****.

He can't finish in traffic or when guarded, he has negative touch. Even shots at the rim he's a 55% shooter for his career, and that number is trending down. I thought he figured it out two years ago when he stuck to taking just threes, but his mid-range game has increased now and it's just flatout awful basketball. This team as a whole just takes way too many awful shots, so it's not even a Marcus Smart issue. We even saw Tristan Thompson take a jumpshot yesterday.

I'm super bullish on the second half of his career being better than the first half, because eventually—surely, please, god—he will stop taking so many of these shots that everyone on Earth knows he can't hit.

[CelticFaninLBC]

If kemba can put together a nice healthy stint that dude is goneeeeezooooo in a trade

It's definitely Smart or Kemba. Celtics can't really keep both going forward.

Why not? If they're serious about contending and keeping Tatum and Brown long-term, they'll have to dip into the luxury tax in a year or two.

[sarcasma]

Combining last season, last post-season and this early part of this new season:

The Celtics are 35-8 when Smart takes 10 shots or less

The Celtics are 21-25 when Smart takes over 10 shots

Smart needs to go for this team to succeed, especially when it comes to Tatum and Brown’s development.

Smart is one of the leaders of this squad smh, he's an important piece to getting banner 18... Take your stats and @#@ it lol. Take Marcus out and you'll see just how soft of a squad we can be...… It's bad enough our 5 spot gets exposed still on the daily.

A “leader” knows his limitations and steps back for the good of the team. The guy has morphed into a chucker who can’t help himself from shooting his team right out of games. You can take that “toughness” and equally shove it.

I cant stand SMART, he has to go. The team plays better without him. Trade him while he has value. If Boston wants to get a Bradley Beal, KEMBA and SMART both have to go in theory. SMART though, just will never get it through his thick skull, and he dominates the ball.

[ajones9219]

Smart is one of the leaders of this squad smh, he's an important piece to getting banner 18... Take your stats and @#@ it lol. Take Marcus out and you'll see just how soft of a squad we can be...… It's bad enough our 5 spot gets exposed still on the daily.

A “leader” knows his limitations and steps back for the good of the team. The guy has morphed into a chucker who can’t help himself from shooting his team right out of games. You can take that “toughness” and equally shove it.

I cant stand SMART, he has to go. The team plays better without him. Trade him while he has value. If Boston wants to get a Bradley Beal, KEMBA and SMART both have to go in theory. SMART though, just will never get it through his thick skull, and he dominates the ball.

Can we trade Smart haters instead?

[playa-hater]

Marcus smart, maybe more than any Celtic ever has the biggest variance between being loved and hated. I am certainly not against trading Marcus smart for the right price. But one thing cannot be under estimated, his will and desire to defend and Guard anybody including all stars superstars etc, come playoffs is where Smart will make his money.

I also am a believer in timeline and Marcus Smart being close in age with Tatum and jalen Brown matters for me a bit more.

[Ernest]

I've got a theory on the Smart haters. People on this board tend to have strong opinions, base them largely on stats, and stick to them. So Smart comes in when we are a losing team and shoots poorly. Some decide they don't like him. They get in arguments on here with people who think he will improve and then get dug in their trenches so to speak. Smart improves year by year, but they've already spent a lot of time posting about how bad he is, so they can't really change their minds now without admitting they have been wrong for a long time. And so the Smart hate continues. It really doesn't matter what % he shoots or how he plays. A certain group here decided they didn't like him years ago and are not going to change their minds.

[Ernest]

My only peeve with Smart recently is those little flip passes in the paint that seem to always get deflected. Can't really see if he is bouncing it or it's just a low pass but it's not really working. It's a small thing as it's like once or twice a game. I kind of wonder though if it's something he should just stop trying or if he just needs more trys at it and will eventually get it. I think he is looking for more ways to move the ball and get teammates easy shots. In the last few years he has gotten pretty good at the pick and role lobs to the bigs. I think he realizes he needs to evolve his role on offense. Just waiting for a shot if someone gets stuck and needs to kick it out is not really fully utilizing his talents.

[sarcasma]

I've got a theory on the Smart haters. People on this board tend to have strong opinions, base them largely on stats, and stick to them. So Smart comes in when we are a losing team and shoots poorly. Some decide they don't like him. They get in arguments on here with people who think he will improve and then get dug in their trenches so to speak. Smart improves year by year, but they've already spent a lot of time posting about how bad he is, so they can't really change their minds now without admitting they have been wrong for a long time. And so the Smart hate continues. It really doesn't matter what % he shoots or how he plays. A certain group here decided they didn't like him years ago and are not going to change their minds.

He hasnt gotten better year by year...hes shooting like 25% from the field. You already lost the argument there.

He has a Mamba Mentality without the talent. Brad wont reign in his shots, people are afraid to challenge him. He constantly has the ball in his hands and demands the ball, and because the other teammates are passive, they let him do what he wants.

If you want to beat Boston just make Smart beat you, thats all teams have to do.

Bottom line is, Im not saying give him away, Im saying trade him for someone with offense.

Lastly, you guys act like no other NBA player plays defense...get over yourselves. I stand by my opinion the team will be better when he leaves. You Smart supporters see the charge he takes...the hustle play. I see the last 4 turnover bad jump shots. One nice defensive play, 4 bad offensive, it doesnt even out. Yeah if he only took 7 shots a game, Im down, but his alpha personality will never allow that.

You cant give him 20 million or Boston will never win anything with Brown, Tatum, and Smart taking all the cap. So he has to go this year or next.

[Ernest]

I've got a theory on the Smart haters. People on this board tend to have strong opinions, base them largely on stats, and stick to them. So Smart comes in when we are a losing team and shoots poorly. Some decide they don't like him. They get in arguments on here with people who think he will improve and then get dug in their trenches so to speak. Smart improves year by year, but they've already spent a lot of time posting about how bad he is, so they can't really change their minds now without admitting they have been wrong for a long time. And so the Smart hate continues. It really doesn't matter what % he shoots or how he plays. A certain group here decided they didn't like him years ago and are not going to change their minds.

He hasnt gotten better year by year...hes shooting like 25% from the field. You already lost the argument there.

He has a Mamba Mentality without the talent. Brad wont reign in his shots, people are afraid to challenge him. He constantly has the ball in his hands and demands the ball, and because the other teammates are passive, they let him do what he wants.

If you want to beat Boston just make Smart beat you, thats all teams have to do.

Bottom line is, Im not saying give him away, Im saying trade him for someone with offense.

Lastly, you guys act like no other NBA player plays defense...get over yourselves. I stand by my opinion the team will be better when he leaves. You Smart supporters see the charge he takes...the hustle play. I see the last 4 turnover bad jump shots. One nice defensive play, 4 bad offensive, it doesnt even out. Yeah if he only took 7 shots a game, Im down, but his alpha personality will never allow that.

You cant give him 20 million or Boston will never win anything with Brown, Tatum, and Smart taking all the cap. So he has to go this year or next.

lol ok. Well thanks for sharing!

[flintsky21]

I don't hate Smart, I just don't value him as high as others here do. Outside of his 3-ball, he's still rather limited on offense. Elite in terms of team defense, but just average on-ball defender. And he's bound for 20 mill payday which is too much for a guy whose primary attribute is hustle and heart. I believe there are some here who wouldn't trade him unless it's in a package for a superstar. Well I'd trade him for a better/well-rounded offensive player (guys like Oladipo, Barnes, Malik Beasley, Fournier) if the opportunity presents.

[Captain_Caveman]

I don't hate Smart, I just don't value him as high as others here do. Outside of his 3-ball, he's still rather limited on offense. Elite in terms of team defense, but just average on-ball defender. And he's bound for 20 mill payday which is too much for a guy whose primary attribute is hustle and heart. I believe there are some here who wouldn't trade him unless it's in a package for a superstar. Well I'd trade him for a better/well-rounded offensive player (guys like Oladipo, Barnes, Malik Beasley, Fournier) if the opportunity presents.

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

[FlatearthZorro]

My only problem with Smart is the shots he takes. How many fadeaway 2s did he take last night? I don't care if he's on the floor with four Tristan Thompsons, that should never be a shot unless the play is completely broken and the shotclock is about to expire. If you have 8 seconds left on the clock and you're taking a fading 2? GTFO.

Yes, he takes a backseat when Brown, Tatum, Walker are all healthy, but ****, it's Year 7 for him and we have all the stats in the world to show that he is bottom 1% on ALL SHOTS besides open threes. He can't finish at the rim, his floater is ****, his midrange jumper is awful, it's all trash. Why ever take these shots besides in desperation situations?

I don't care that he's a 32 pct shooter from three, fine, take the open ones and it's all good. Maybe he'll shoot 40% some year when he only take the good ones. But why is he driving to the rim and lobbing grenades? We know he can't hit that shot. Drive and if it's wide open, take it, otherwise kick it out. He took eight shots last night between the paint and the 3pt line. He shot well in this one instance, but for his career he's awful from there. I know he is taking on a larger role than normal, but I'd be so much happier if he just launched pullup threes instead of garbo fadeaway 2s. They're both 30 pct shots, but at least one of them is worth 3 pts. Plus worst case, your d efense is back, or you get a chance at a long rebound. Plus it pisses off people in the game threads, so win-win-win from my POV. Launch that ****.

He can't finish in traffic or when guarded, he has negative touch. Even shots at the rim he's a 55% shooter for his career, and that number is trending down. I thought he figured it out two years ago when he stuck to taking just threes, but his mid-range game has increased now and it's just flatout awful basketball. This team as a whole just takes way too many awful shots, so it's not even a Marcus Smart issue. We even saw Tristan Thompson take a jumpshot yesterday.

I'm super bullish on the second half of his career being better than the first half, because eventually—surely, please, god—he will stop taking so many of these shots that everyone on Earth knows he can't hit.

That's true, all of it. And I've said it many times. Smart needs to know his role and limitations. He's below average on offense. I've also been wondering if he'd ever realize he shouldn't take these shots. Obviously he doesn't. Biggest problem to me comes, when we're in the playoffs and Smart decides to shoot the ball 15-16 times, which happened A LOT last year. That's when you have 10-11 empty possessions and it nulifies his offense.

[BK_2020]

My only peeve with Smart recently is those little flip passes in the paint that seem to always get deflected. Can't really see if he is bouncing it or it's just a low pass but it's not really working. It's a small thing as it's like once or twice a game. I kind of wonder though if it's something he should just stop trying or if he just needs more trys at it and will eventually get it. I think he is looking for more ways to move the ball and get teammates easy shots. In the last few years he has gotten pretty good at the pick and role lobs to the bigs. I think he realizes he needs to evolve his role on offense. Just waiting for a shot if someone gets stuck and needs to kick it out is not really fully utilizing his talents.

Honestly this for me too. He also connects on like one out of every five lobs but he loves throwing them.

[Bad-Thoma]

I don't hate Smart, I just don't value him as high as others here do. Outside of his 3-ball, he's still rather limited on offense. Elite in terms of team defense, but just average on-ball defender. And he's bound for 20 mill payday which is too much for a guy whose primary attribute is hustle and heart. I believe there are some here who wouldn't trade him unless it's in a package for a superstar. Well I'd trade him for a better/well-rounded offensive player (guys like Oladipo, Barnes, Malik Beasley, Fournier) if the opportunity presents.

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

It's insane, he's over 3:1 assist to turnover ratio as a starting ball handler which is him once again being a human swiss army knife for the team and people somehow watch the games and think he isn't a good offensive player because he doesn't score at a high percentage. The truth is pretty much the only hole in his game is inefficient scoring, particularly inside the 3pt line, and most of the time it's a non issue.

[tfribs45]

I don't hate Smart, I just don't value him as high as others here do. Outside of his 3-ball, he's still rather limited on offense. Elite in terms of team defense, but just average on-ball defender. And he's bound for 20 mill payday which is too much for a guy whose primary attribute is hustle and heart. I believe there are some here who wouldn't trade him unless it's in a package for a superstar. Well I'd trade him for a better/well-rounded offensive player (guys like Oladipo, Barnes, Malik Beasley, Fournier) if the opportunity presents.

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

It's insane, he's over 3:1 assist to turnover ratio as a starting ball handler which is him once again being a human swiss army knife for the team and people somehow watch the games and think he isn't a good offensive player because he doesn't score at a high percentage. The truth is pretty much the only hole in his game is inefficient scoring, particularly inside the 3pt line, and most of the time it's a non issue.

#FACTS, not to mention he's a DPOY candidate every season! You can name a hand full of guys that can guard any position 1-5.... All you need to remember about Marcus is the game winning plays in the 4th. How about that defensive play against the Raps last playoff run?! He's def an asset, now if you went and signed Draymond, then he would be expendable. Until then, I want no part of unloading Cobra for nothing. Our defense would be as SOFT as they come in the NBA...

[Captain_Caveman]

I don't hate Smart, I just don't value him as high as others here do. Outside of his 3-ball, he's still rather limited on offense. Elite in terms of team defense, but just average on-ball defender. And he's bound for 20 mill payday which is too much for a guy whose primary attribute is hustle and heart. I believe there are some here who wouldn't trade him unless it's in a package for a superstar. Well I'd trade him for a better/well-rounded offensive player (guys like Oladipo, Barnes, Malik Beasley, Fournier) if the opportunity presents.

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

It's insane, he's over 3:1 assist to turnover ratio as a starting ball handler which is him once again being a human swiss army knife for the team and people somehow watch the games and think he isn't a good offensive player because he doesn't score at a high percentage. The truth is pretty much the only hole in his game is inefficient scoring, particularly inside the 3pt line, and most of the time it's a non issue.

I **** hate it, He is a role player making role player money, but let's bitch about how he isn't a star after years of him approximating one 50% of the time at 50% of what actual stars cost.

[Feed Your Head]

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

It's insane, he's over 3:1 assist to turnover ratio as a starting ball handler which is him once again being a human swiss army knife for the team and people somehow watch the games and think he isn't a good offensive player because he doesn't score at a high percentage. The truth is pretty much the only hole in his game is inefficient scoring, particularly inside the 3pt line, and most of the time it's a non issue.

I **** hate it, He is a role player making role player money, but let's bitch about how he isn't a star after years of him approximating one 50% of the time at 50% of what actual stars cost.

It’s super frustrating. Yeah he takes bad shots a few times a game, but to me that’s a lesser offense than something like blowing defensive rotations and effing up the team defense. Which quite a few guys on this team are regularly guilty of, and that almost always leads directly to an open shot for the other team.

“It’s basically a turnover when he shoots those shots!!!” drives me insane. No it’s actually not even close to a turnover.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Smart has been as good a playmaker as anyone else on our roster since he got here, though.

It's a huge whiff to miss that, and IMO a huge tell that anyone saying that doesn't grasp basketball that well. Dude is a major asset in the role he is paid to perform in, which is why Brad loves him and Ainge shoots down any and all trades for him.

Oladipo? We could get him for the TPE.

Barnes, Beasley, or Fournier? Good lord, lol.

It's insane, he's over 3:1 assist to turnover ratio as a starting ball handler which is him once again being a human swiss army knife for the team and people somehow watch the games and think he isn't a good offensive player because he doesn't score at a high percentage. The truth is pretty much the only hole in his game is inefficient scoring, particularly inside the 3pt line, and most of the time it's a non issue.

I **** hate it, He is a role player making role player money, but let's bitch about how he isn't a star after years of him approximating one 50% of the time at 50% of what actual stars cost.

There aren’t many guards who make $13.4 million or less (not counting rookie scale contracts) that I would take over Marcus Smart.

EDIT: I looked it up. There are none. Some could make the case for Lou Williams ($8 million), but given his age and defense, I’d still take Marcus every day of the week, twice on Sunday.