Tim Duncan "hates a lot of things" about the modern NBA

[Pablo Escobar]

Completely agree....can't play defense on the perimeter right now without fouling yet the refs turn a blind eye to what happens in the paint. NBA has to understand that no one wants to watch a free throw parade.

And the last 2 minutes turns into a free for all

[jbk1234]

I agree. It's particularly egregious when a smaller player is on a bigger player.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[AdagioPace]

the "old man yelling" crowd (a couple people actually) falls a bit short this time I think. Duncan is one of the most open-minded people in the history of basketball. This is not Shaq and K.Malone we're talking about....He's simply underlying a shift in how the game is officiated. that's all. He's not saying "I hate 3 pointers", like a Neanderthal.

Duncan's view is not reactionary, it's post-modern.

[draftnightsuit]

I think there are some different things in effect here.

One is the rule changes because the NBA wanted to fabricate the next Jordan.

The other is the whole analytics revolution.

The modern NBA is the result of these two but they are not the same.

Even with the previous rules the game would have changed because the analytics would show which are the optimal plays and the entire league would spam those. The more perimeter oriented game has simply shifted the optimal plays and has increased the importance of perimeter players.

To a degree NBA's plan has backfired, precisely because these two parameters are not linked. I dont think the current barrage of 3s provides any entertainment to most fans and it is not something that the NBA aimed for with the rule changes. Rather, it was the result of the rule changes and the more analytic approach to the game.

Michael Jordan was the fabrication.

[LakerLegend]

I think there are some different things in effect here.

One is the rule changes because the NBA wanted to fabricate the next Jordan.

The other is the whole analytics revolution.

The modern NBA is the result of these two but they are not the same.

Even with the previous rules the game would have changed because the analytics would show which are the optimal plays and the entire league would spam those. The more perimeter oriented game has simply shifted the optimal plays and has increased the importance of perimeter players.

To a degree NBA's plan has backfired, precisely because these two parameters are not linked. I dont think the current barrage of 3s provides any entertainment to most fans and it is not something that the NBA aimed for with the rule changes. Rather, it was the result of the rule changes and the more analytic approach to the game.

Michael Jordan was the fabrication.

Nah, your boy LeBron is.

[toodles23]

Most of the time I think former players have dumb takes but I'm 100% with Tim on this one. It's more difficult than it's ever been in league history to draw a real foul around the rim, they let defenders get away with a ton of contact that would be called in prior eras, especially in situations with "verticality" - it used to be that they really had to jump truly straight up and avoid making contact on the defender with their arms, but now they're much more lenient letting defenders jump with forward momentum and bringing their arms down.

On the other hand, it's by far the easiest it's ever been to draw cheap fouls in an assortment of ways - flopping and falling down on threes, leaning WAY the **** in on defenders who jump on fakes, headsnapping on drives, feeling a slight bit of contact and throwing the ball in the general direction of the rim on DHOs, etc. I think it would be really good for the game if they reined in a lot of the BS call seeking/flopping behavior we're seeing while having a somewhat tighter whistle with contact around the rim.

[JayMKE]

Call fouls on post defenders like they do perimeter players, just outlaw defense altogether. All dunks and 3 pointers, 150 points a game, it’s Adam Silver’s dream.

If you like basketball as it is now then it’s probably 9/10 chance you’re a Golden State/Curry fan and or too young to remember anything else.

[DoctorX]

I don't know why anybody is offended. What Duncan said is the truth. Bigs get the **** beaten out of them in the post while perimeter players have it much easier than any previous era when it comes to physicality.

[theonlyclutch]

Duncan's right, and judging by the record ratings and revenues that the NBA has been bringing over the past few years compared to say, 2005, the NBA is also right in nudging things this way. Even decent bigs today are benefitting from earning way more money even compared to far superior players 10 years ago, for all the griping around unequal foul treatment, Giannis and Embiid show that bigs can still get to the line plenty in today's NBA, maybe Duncan (the coach) should watch more tape and teach SAS's players how to get to the line like they do?

[Lalouie]

so are people going to say this is old man yelling or middle-aged man yelling

[DoctorX]

Duncan's right, and judging by the record ratings and revenues that the NBA has been bringing over the past few years compared to say, 2005, the NBA is also right in nudging things this way. Even decent bigs today are benefitting from earning way more money even compared to far superior players 10 years ago, for all the griping around unequal foul treatment, Giannis and Embiid show that bigs can still get to the line plenty in today's NBA, maybe Duncan (the coach) should watch more tape and teach SAS's players how to get to the line like they do?

The ratings were crap last year. I know the NBA recently said their ratings are up by 34 percent compared to last year but to me that's not impressive. I would like to know if their ratings are better than 2019 which was pre-covid.

[theonlyclutch]

Duncan's right, and judging by the record ratings and revenues that the NBA has been bringing over the past few years compared to say, 2005, the NBA is also right in nudging things this way. Even decent bigs today are benefitting from earning way more money even compared to far superior players 10 years ago, for all the griping around unequal foul treatment, Giannis and Embiid show that bigs can still get to the line plenty in today's NBA, maybe Duncan (the coach) should watch more tape and teach SAS's players how to get to the line like they do?

The ratings were crap last year. I know the NBA recently said their ratings are up by 34 percent compared to last year but to me that's not impressive. I would like to know if their ratings are better than 2019 which was pre-covid.

Focusing on single year ratings misses the point, the salary cap this year is nearly triple that of 2005 and double that from even 6/7 years ago. This implies that league revenues also increased by around that magnitude, so whatever the NBA did made their games much more marketable to the general audience. This benefits even many big men today as their salaries are far higher despite having smaller roles in teams. I doubt modern bigs like Steven Adams are complaining about "today's game" given that product is a huge reason for the $27M he gets this season.

[Dutchball97]

The 3 point revolution is opening the doors for more normal sized people with high skill levels to dominate the game. Guards being more than just the guy who has the honour of continuously handing the ball to the tallest player on the team is a good thing. Maybe it is what you grew up with but when I see AD catch the ball near the basket, bump someone, turn around and practically lay the ball in with almost no counterplay I don't really see how that is fun to watch, much less how it shows more skill than what the perimeter players do.

There is an easy solution to flopping on the 3pt line though. It makes little sense to me that being fouled further away from the basket gets you an extra FT. Make every shooting foul 2 FT and the allure of flopping on the perimeter will quickly diminish.

[DoctorX]

Duncan's right, and judging by the record ratings and revenues that the NBA has been bringing over the past few years compared to say, 2005, the NBA is also right in nudging things this way. Even decent bigs today are benefitting from earning way more money even compared to far superior players 10 years ago, for all the griping around unequal foul treatment, Giannis and Embiid show that bigs can still get to the line plenty in today's NBA, maybe Duncan (the coach) should watch more tape and teach SAS's players how to get to the line like they do?

The ratings were crap last year. I know the NBA recently said their ratings are up by 34 percent compared to last year but to me that's not impressive. I would like to know if their ratings are better than 2019 which was pre-covid.

Focusing on single year ratings misses the point, the salary cap this year is nearly triple that of 2005 and double that from even 6/7 years ago. This implies that league revenues also increased by around that magnitude, so whatever the NBA did made their games much more marketable to the general audience. This benefits even many big men today as their salaries are far higher despite having smaller roles in teams. I doubt modern bigs like Steven Adams are complaining about "today's game" given that product is a huge reason for the $27M he gets this season.

Well we'll see if the ratings are high this year when the playoffs come.

[Gooner]

[quote="levon"]Woah, RGM sweetheart Tim Duncan vs famous RGM position "retired players know less than I do". Who will win?[/quote
]

Hhahahahaha

[Jkam31]

High school and college are more physical than the NBA today.

You are allowed to bump and be physical on the perimeter as long as you don't affect the shot. You are also allowed, inside, to own the space you're in. Its much more routine that opposing players "own" the same space on the interior, and extremely unlikely that it happens on the perimeter. On the perimeter, you take a shot expecting to land cleanly. You dont usually have someone inside your jersey when you take the shot. In the paint, its very different.

What exactly does he want? The hand-check rule coming back? Or does he want more fouls on the interior?

Nah, this is just an old man complaining about a sport naturally evolving. No one hits singles and moves the runner over anymore! No one runs the ball 40 times a game anymore! Sports evolve and players need to to stay relevant.

Hahah wait you’re actually backing the way refs call games for the perimeter players, embarrassing man.

And to answer your question Tim probably wants refs to let defenders do anything but move out the way for players

[Jkam31]

You’re biased by your team

Team sucks at 3s this year and believe me, I had this stance well before Curry hit the league

Its no different than any other 'back in my day' from a retired athlete as their sport has shifted it style and passed them by

Whatever you say bro, I don’t take seriously the opinions of modern basketball from fans of GS and Stephen Curry. You’re defending the legacy of your championship teams, not the actual quality of play which is fine but definite conflict of interest. Lebron fans are also very defensive of this era even tho Lebron would have been one of the GOAT regardless of when he played. The refs not calling moving screens and calling fouls on perimeter defenders for breathing on their guy has nothing to do with little guys being more skilled, it’s just that Adam Silver’s NBA is all about cash grabs and marketing a small number of star players.

Not everything in the world is great and getting better, there is a lack of balance in the NBA that most long time fans of the sport are disgusted in. The are rules that need to change 100% and honestly I’d go as far as getting rid of the 3 point line to kill off the analytic nonsense that encourages 30 ft fast break 3s and both teams chucking 80+ of them a game.

You see about one or two legal picks set a game guys can literally move at will on picks it’s crazy. Now add that if a player jumps into a defender it’s a foul, if you make a perfect contest it’s a foul, and if the big rotates over 70% of the time it will be a foul and you get these video game numbers that we see

I’ll never forget Paul Milsap walking away from AD’s jump shot and AD comes down twisting his own ankle with milsap 3 feet away and being whistled for a foul

[RichS]

Hate leads to the dark side Tim

He did start with "There's a lot of things that I like and enjoy about it". The problem with people today is there are too many haters who just want to focus on the negatives and complain. I myself have no problem enjoying MJ, Tim, Lebron, Curry or Harden/KD/Luka or anyone that's playing great in any system and any era.

[Jkam31]

You know the rules have literally been changed so the players can't be as physical as they were right.

They.literally.changed.the.TEXT.

You mean the rule I referenced in almost every post but this one? I'm aware

It disallowed contact that moved the offensive player off their position when they had the ball, unless they had their back to the basket and were 'near' the hoop. Love that rule. Makes the game a lot more watchable in that the game is based on skill, and not which 7' could throw his ass around more

Imagine thinking that pump faking and then intentionally throwing yourself into the defender and then getting FTs was the height of "skill"
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but personally I think an up-and-under move is both more skillful and more entertaining than ref baiting and a FT parade.

Hell a pump fake and a dribble to the mid range jumper is more entertaining and skillful than that ref baiting bull ****

[hege53190]

He's not wrong, the defenders are allow to play way more physical in the post expecially if you're a big man.

I'd agree. This is the game plan for small guys getting switched into the post. Put all your weight on the post player then when the big pushes back a tiny bit flop like a shot goose and you get a charge call.

The way the post is called in todays game is ridiculous.