NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

Homer38 · Post #121 » by **Homer38** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:54 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:None of that matters mate. The point is the Bulls were a good team without Mike--as your wall of text concedes.

My whole point is that we shouldn't decide MVP based on who has the least help. Pick a different example if you don't like Mike.

None of that matters mate. The point is that the Bulls weren't remotely the same team in '93 as in '94 (added four major contributors), and weren't nearly as bad in '93 as the 57 wins you cited nor nearly as good in '94 as the 55 wins you cited -- as my wall of text conclusively proves.

My whole point was that the '93 and '94 Bulls have nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. Pick a different example if you want to reinforce your point.

The W-L record is what who matters for a team at the end of the day.Nobody have said that the Bulls were as good without Jordan,but it was still a very good supporting cast and the 1994 season is a example of that.

Lunartic · Post #122 » by **Lunartic** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:19 pm

The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

chaimer · Post #123 » by **chaimer** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:21 pm

Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

Kawhi won't get it over Lebron, if Lakers are No.1 in the west

Lunartic · Post #124 » by **Lunartic** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:18 pm

chaimer wrote:
Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

Kawhi won't get it over Lebron, if Lakers are No.1 in the west

Debatable but yeah Lebron should be considered heavily. I think there's a bias against players that have superstar teammates.
Hence why Curry/Durant didn't win any during their reign of terror.

Heej · Post #125 » by **Heej** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:13 pm

Lunartic wrote:
chaimer wrote:
Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

Kawhi won't get it over Lebron, if Lakers are No.1 in the west

Debatable but yeah Lebron should be considered heavily. I think there's a bias against players that have superstar teammates.
Hence why Curry/Durant didn't win any during their reign of terror.

To be frank, I don't think Davis gives a s*** enough in the regular season to actually supplant LeBron the way Durant did to Curry. In the playoffs and the Finals tho, I'll be surprised if Lebron outplays him to be completely honest. But as far as regular season goes it doesn't look like AD is playing with enough force to activate that very real media bias. Also, at some point you just gotta accept that this dude is very much the most important player on the league's best team that's playing like real defending champions. He's gonna be in the mix up until the end this season no matter what now.

Benedict_Boozer · Post #126 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:19 pm

Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

Kawhi is quietly having a great season, good point here. I think he might have some negative residue on him from the bubble playoffs, similar to Giannis choking it up, it feels like the media has basically written off giving him another MVP and I haven't even heard a peep about Kawhi in the media despite his strong season.

If they finish with a better record than the LAL, which is possible, he would have an argument for sure assuming he doesn't start load managing.

baksuzz · Post #127 » by **baksuzz** » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:07 pm

Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

i can only find 23:1 odds for Kawhi
there is a lot of things that need to happen that he cant even have effect on in order for him to win the MVP

-Denver cant be top3 in the west cause Jokic wins then
-Dallas cant be top3 in the west
-Philadephia to not be 1st in the East
-Lakers to not be 1st in West
-no load managment at all

Also George playing a great season doesnt help with that too.

Lunartic · Post #128 » by **Lunartic** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:14 am

baksuzz wrote:
Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

i can only find 23:1 odds for Kawhi
there is a lot of things that need to happen that he cant even have effect on in order for him to win the MVP

-Denver cant be top3 in the west cause Jokic wins then
-Dallas cant be top3 in the west
-Philadephia to not be 1st in the East
-Lakers to not be 1st in West
-no load managment at all

Also George playing a great season doesnt help with that too.

Bovada and FanDuel have great odds for Kawhi/PG

All those things that need to happen are true for all MVP candidates.

Lebron isn't winning it if Jokic is 2nd seed and posting big stats. Or if Embiid is 1/2 seed. Or if AD starts balling out.

MVP isn't awarded in a vacuum

baksuzz · Post #129 » by **baksuzz** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:28 am

Lunartic wrote:
baksuzz wrote:
Bovada and FanDuel have great odds for Kawhi/PG

All those things that need to happen are true for all MVP candidates.

Lebron isn't winning it if Jokic is 2nd seed and posting big stats. Or if Embiid is 1/2 seed. Or if AD starts balling out.

MVP isn't awarded in a vacuum

Agree
for 50:1 its definitely worth a bet and i would if i didnt put money after first few games on Jokic to win MVP when it was 23:1

Ballerhogger · Post #130 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:45 am

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Joel Embiid are your current top 3 fairly early so lot can change

Ballerhogger · Post #131 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:46 am

Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

if he rest during the season hes going take him self out of the running

Ballerhogger · Post #132 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:47 am

Lunartic wrote:
chaimer wrote:
Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

Kawhi won't get it over Lebron, if Lakers are No.1 in the west

Debatable but yeah Lebron should be considered heavily. I think there's a bias against players that have superstar teammates.
Hence why Curry/Durant didn't win any during their reign of terror.

Kawhi has Paul George whos no slouch in RS

Ballerhogger · Post #133 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:48 am

He had very nice MVP moment last night against the bucks scoring 36 points and late 3 to end the game

msr999 · Post #134 » by **msr999** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:05 am

Wagonband wrote:People saying LeBron don't understand what MVP means... Most Valuable Player. You can definite however you want. But i define it as most valuable to his team. Are the Lakers suddenly trash if LBJ doesn't play at this level? Nope, still have one of the best teams in the NBA.

How would the Nuggets do? Probably last in the West without Jokic. How about Mavs without Luka? same. Philly without Embiid? Same.

So i don't see how LeBron is that valuable the way he is playing. That doesn't mean he can't turn it on. But he's not, and smartly so. Shouldn't be awarded the MVP for it though. He hasn't coasted this much ever. So it would mean that a coasting LeBron is better than 15 seasons or so of engaged LeBron

MVP definition keeps changing depending on who you ask I guess. Based on this, shouldn't Lebron be MVP every year he was in Cleveland?

Lunartic · Post #135 » by **Lunartic** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:21 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
Lunartic wrote:The odds on Kawhi winning MVP are insane. 1$ gets you 50$. I can see voters thinking he's long overdue - Giannis has 2, Lebron has multiple, Durant, Harden and even Westbrook have one.

Embiid might not play enough games and Jokic needs to get his Nuggets to a top-2 seed for him to win. Luka's Mavs are too bad so far for real consideration.

if he rest during the season hes going take him self out of the running

Yeah if he misses more than 15 games or so he won't win

syrus3 · Post #136 » by **syrus3** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:30 am

Embiid, Giannis and Jokic

Pantsman · Post #137 » by **Pantsman** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 am

Sexton Sexton and Sexton

Pelly24 · Post #138 » by **Pelly24** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:47 am

They're going crazy right now. Jokic has the nuggets in 4th place at the moment. Embiid has been dominant on offense and defense and it seems like he's reached his full potential.

draftnightsuit · Post #139 » by **draftnightsuit** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:51 am

Embiid - yes
Jokic - no

I can’t believe Jokic is leading the league in assists though. It really is an unpredictable season.

LesGrossman · Post #140 » by **LesGrossman** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:00 am

Jokic much more so than Embiid. What Jokic is bringing to the table is possibly the best in the league right now, and they are successful with a roster that is otherwise not overly blessed with talent (not bought in on Murray). In my opinion there is only one thing that works against Jokic and for Embiid and the other candidates and frankly, even though its a borderline dangerous theory, i think its racial bias. I think a chubby white guy without hops simply doesnt fit the stereotype MVP player. Give the same skills, IQ, personality and success to a more "normal" NBA player possibly from the US and he'd be all over the MVP ladders. Jokic had his team in the conference finals and different from what the result suggests (i still believe two games were literally stolen from the Nuggets) it was a fairly close series against two first team ALL NBA guys. Yes Murray showed up but Jokic even more so. Murray seems like a guy who can really fill up the numbers but Jokics playmaking is what makes all the difference, as evident when he goes to the bench. Same players that look like all stars next to him can barely score a basket. Isnt that kind of the definiton of the MVP (of his team)?

Who is the MVP so far?