Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[nate33]

https://poll.fm/10722381/results?msg=voted

Interesting to see what NBA fans think. I voted in the minority - that he'll stay long-term, but I was just being a homer.

Not a surprise to me. All guys in Beals situation, w/only rare exceptions, leave, either via trade or Free Agency. I’ve been flummoxed for the past two or so years by the plethora of posters who simply believe his public statements on the issue (statements I think most would take w/a grain of salt if uttered by other teams players).

I do understand that by being locals your more privy to certain inside things that people like me way out West would not necessarily be clued into, but generally I think fan bases tend to be naive about their own players while more circumspect or cynical w/others from other teams which can help explain why canvases can still be blind sided by potential trades like this even in this day and age.

Players often leave, but there have been very few Kemba Walker type situations where players said or implied that they would stay and then left anyway.

If Beal plans to leave, I think we will know it early enough that we can trade him. It will either be a Giannis scenario where he decides next summer to go ahead and stay, or it will be an Anthony Davis scenario where we will know that he wants to leave and we will trade him rather than let him walk for nothing. Or possibly there's a Jrue Holiday/Paul George scenario where someone out of the blue extends us a godfather offer that we can't refuse.

[nate33]

a different approach to the Bradley Beal discussion: why not see if we can trade for a disgruntled star on the relative cheap? I'm not a big fan of KAT, but he's a star center who's only 25, who's pretty likely to bolt a terrible Minnesota team (sound familiar?)

The deal would go as follows:

Wizards trade:
Unprotected 2021 FRP
2022 SRP
Rui Hachimura
Jerome Robinson
Moritz Wagner
Thomas Bryant (assuming he passes a physical)

T'Wolves trade:
Karl-Anthony Towns (S&T)

Why for the Timberwolves? This is an excellent rebuilding package for someone who is likely to leave for nothing. They build around Rui, get back a high lottery pick, and fill out the roster with talent that is still fairly young.

Why for the Wizards?

This gets a second star to pair with Beal for the next 5 years and instantly makes the team relevant again. Even if the Westbrook contract is too much of an albatross to move, unless he's completely physically washed up, Beal + Towns gets the team back to the playoffs. We still retain Avidja and Bonga for future development/starters on the wings.

C: Towns/MLE FA
PF: Bertrans/Avidja
SF: Avidja/Bonga
SG: Beal/Matthews
PG: Westbrook/Smith

Once Westbrook is off the books, the Wizards are suddenly in a position to trade for that 3rd star.

With that said, I'm 80% sure Minny says no, or at least demands Avidja.

I just don't see a scenario where we can outbid other teams for a desirable young star. We don't have the assets. Any offer we make, a team like Atlanta, New Orleans or OKC could beat.

[Silvie Lysandra]

I just don't see a scenario where we can outbid other teams for a desirable young star. We don't have the assets. Any offer we make, a team like Atlanta, New Orleans or OKC could beat.

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

[nate33]

I just don't see a scenario where we can outbid other teams for a desirable young star. We don't have the assets. Any offer we make, a team like Atlanta, New Orleans or OKC could beat.

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

I'd rather take the top 5 pick in this draft than Towns. Well, top 3 anyway. It's possible that Towns is better than the #4 or #5 pick.

[Ruzious]

I just don't see a scenario where we can outbid other teams for a desirable young star. We don't have the assets. Any offer we make, a team like Atlanta, New Orleans or OKC could beat.

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

I'd rather take the top 5 pick in this draft than Towns. Well, top 3 anyway. It's possible that Towns is better than the #4 or #5 pick.

I'm still a Towns guy. Granted he's not great defensively, but he's also showed signs of improving there. And he's absurdly good offensively. Not to mention, he's 25. I think a creative smart GM can build a great team around him.

[nate33]

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

I'd rather take the top 5 pick in this draft than Towns. Well, top 3 anyway. It's possible that Towns is better than the #4 or #5 pick.

I'm still a Towns guy. Granted he's not great defensively, but he's also showed signs of improving there. And he's absurdly good offensively. Not to mention, he's 25. I think a creative smart GM can build a great team around him.

Fair points. Towns is probably underrated at this point because of Minnesota's poor track record with him. But he does put up mind-boggling offensive numbers and his on/off differentials are good.

I think I'd still take Suggs/Cunningham/Mobley over him, but I'd trade the #4 or lower pick for Towns.

[Silvie Lysandra]

I just don't see a scenario where we can outbid other teams for a desirable young star. We don't have the assets. Any offer we make, a team like Atlanta, New Orleans or OKC could beat.

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

I'd rather take the top 5 pick in this draft than Towns. Well, top 3 anyway. It's possible that Towns is better than the #4 or #5 pick.

i probably would too. However, I don't know if the top 5 pick in the draft will be better than Towns by the time Beal is ready to make his decision, and right now there is no trade for Beal that's even somewhat interesting in terms of a rebuild (the absolute best trade available is Herro + Achiuwa and those are nice centerpieces, but would you rather have Herro + Achiuwa + Suggs over Beal + Towns?)

With that said, I haven't actually looked at the top prospects in depth yet. Are we talking about "all-star by year two and All-NBA before the rookie contract is up?"

[nate33]

With that said, I haven't actually looked at the top prospects in depth yet. Are we talking about "all-star by year two and All-NBA before the rookie contract is up?"

Yes. We are.

I think all three of the top 3 have "All-NBA in their 4th season" potential.

Suggs has Damian Lillard potential but possibly better D.
Cunningham has Doncic-like point forward potential, though maybe not with his freakishly advanced for his age bball IQ.
Mobley has Chris Bosh potential.

[Topofthekey]

While this is true on paper, we're more likely to have something that the other teams can't, which is a top 5 lottery pick in an incredible draft (that Minnesota is lacking). Atlanta and OKC look like fringe playoff teams atm. Sure Atlanta can offer something like Hunter + Collins + FRP, but what if we're sitting at #2 and they'd rather take Cunningham or Suggs? As for NO, they look bad now, but I am honestly not sure they trade Ingram for Towns, and they definitely do not trade Zion for Towns. They want a star to play WITH Ingram and Zion, not one they have to trade one of them for. OKC actually sort of has the worst of both worlds, in that their prime trade asset is the player they'd prefer to build around, while they're already a late lottery/low playoff seed team.

Of course, if the Wizards wash out of the lottery, as is wont to happen, then the deal is kind of a bust.

I'd rather take the top 5 pick in this draft than Towns. Well, top 3 anyway. It's possible that Towns is better than the #4 or #5 pick.

i probably would too. However, I don't know if the top 5 pick in the draft will be better than Towns by the time Beal is ready to make his decision, and right now there is no trade for Beal that's even somewhat interesting in terms of a rebuild (the absolute best trade available is Herro + Achiuwa and those are nice centerpieces, but would you rather have Herro + Achiuwa + Suggs over Beal + Towns?)

With that said, I haven't actually looked at the top prospects in depth yet. Are we talking about "all-star by year two and All-NBA before the rookie contract is up?"

How about Sabonis?

[Silvie Lysandra]

With that said, I haven't actually looked at the top prospects in depth yet. Are we talking about "all-star by year two and All-NBA before the rookie contract is up?"

Yes. We are.

I think all three of the top 3 have "All-NBA in their 4th season" potential.

Suggs has Damian Lillard potential but possibly better D.
Cunningham has Doncic-like point forward potential, though maybe not with his freakishly advanced for his age bball IQ.
Mobley has Chris Bosh potential.

After doing some research, yeah I definitely like Cunningham/Suggs over Towns. Mobley, idk, I definitely see the comp. But Towns still has quite a bit of potential to unlock if someone could get him to grow up.

Also why would the Pacers trade Sabonis + assets for Beal?

[lastemp3ror]

To me, there are two basic issues; they are somewhat in conflict, but we have to hope they are not altogether contradictory.

The first is that this team needs a total rebuild -- or, more accurately, it needs to continue on the path of total rebuild which it's been on since Ernie was fired. Any move off that path, every waver, is just a way to let mediocrity in & breathe a sigh of relief -- a way of welcoming mediocrity.

The second such basic issue is that everyone one of us wants to keep Bradley Beal -- the FO, every fan... everyone! & why wouldn't we all want to keep him? & so... we should.

IMO, just keep Brad & also stay on the rebuild path. Live with the conflict.

I don't want to keep Beal on the team. I was the first, or one of the first at least, to advocate trading Wall before he signed the ridiculous super max contract and before he was injured. Caught a lot of flak for that position. We should trade Beal ASAP because:

-- He's wasting his prime here
-- our coach is awful
-- the team has no discernable strategic plan to win a championship
-- he's inhibiting the growth of our younger players by playing one-on-one basketball and trying to score 40 points a game
-- he's healthy now and very well could be the opposite soon (just like Wall)

Get the most we can for him now, develop a plan to win a championship in the next four years, hire a real coach, and hold everyone accountable. My two cents.

The first 3 i get, the last 2 you could have left off. There is no reason for Beal to stop shooting when he's as efficient as he's been. He's kept us in alot of these games. You could say Westbrook's shot jacking inhibits growth because he's supposed to be the PG but goes 6 for 21 every night and his decision making is generally erratic. As for health, you could say that about any player in the league, there's nothing about Beal rn that makes a higher risk than anyone else.

In my opinion, for what little it is worth, Beal is a high-value asset, so it is a higher risk. You can't put him on the same risk profile as Wagner for assistance. For this reason, you are taking a chance with every passing moment. What if Beal goes down in 2 weeks with a serious injury? Are we going to be smacking our heads on the table? On the other hand, if Wagner goes down, will our reaction be the same?

[Topofthekey]

With that said, I haven't actually looked at the top prospects in depth yet. Are we talking about "all-star by year two and All-NBA before the rookie contract is up?"

Yes. We are.

I think all three of the top 3 have "All-NBA in their 4th season" potential.

Suggs has Damian Lillard potential but possibly better D.
Cunningham has Doncic-like point forward potential, though maybe not with his freakishly advanced for his age bball IQ.
Mobley has Chris Bosh potential.

After doing some research, yeah I definitely like Cunningham/Suggs over Towns. Mobley, idk, I definitely see the comp. But Towns still has quite a bit of potential to unlock if someone could get him to grow up.

Also why would the Pacers trade Sabonis + assets for Beal?

I'm not sure they would either, but it's an interesting trade to think about, because in theory in works for both teams

Pacers as a squad lacks top end talent, Beal gives them that, at least offensively

Wizards want a young star in return if they trade Beal, Sabonis is probably one of the better ones to get. He's also a good positional defender, so in theory the fit should be good with Hachimura

Where it falls apart is, I don't think Pacers are keen to trade Sabonis, especially if they have to add, but from Wizards POV trading Beal for Sabonis alone feels just a little too light

I guess it all depends on whether Pacers want to fast track their timeline, and whether there are better offers available for Beal

[The Consiglieri]

https://poll.fm/10722381/results?msg=voted

Interesting to see what NBA fans think. I voted in the minority - that he'll stay long-term, but I was just being a homer.

Not a surprise to me. All guys in Beals situation, w/only rare exceptions, leave, either via trade or Free Agency. I’ve been flummoxed for the past two or so years by the plethora of posters who simply believe his public statements on the issue (statements I think most would take w/a grain of salt if uttered by other teams players).

I do understand that by being locals your more privy to certain inside things that people like me way out West would not necessarily be clued into, but generally I think fan bases tend to be naive about their own players while more circumspect or cynical w/others from other teams which can help explain why canvases can still be blind sided by potential trades like this even in this day and age.

Players often leave, but there have been very few Kemba Walker type situations where players said or implied that they would stay and then left anyway.

If Beal plans to leave, I think we will know it early enough that we can trade him. It will either be a Giannis scenario where he decides next summer to go ahead and stay, or it will be an Anthony Davis scenario where we will know that he wants to leave and we will trade him rather than let him walk for nothing. Or possibly there's a Jrue Holiday/Paul George scenario where someone out of the blue extends us a godfather offer that we can't refuse.

This just isn’t true.

The very same Celtics were on the opposite side of this with Kyrie.

Lebrun promised when he arrived for Cleveland II and left.

Paul George said the same w/OKC and left a year later.

Aldridge made all sorts of Blazers for life promised before bailing.

Boozer’s original stiffing of the Cavs was even worse than LeBron making a TV special to break fans hearts.

The Bleacher report article I found to unearth some examples references that all four All NBA free agents to be from the ‘18-‘19 class left in the summer of ‘19. Zero stayed. An additional 2 ALL NBA players requested and received trades.

I get the two core negatives of trading Beal:

#1 you destroy the rare off chance exception of him staying and trying to build w/him and land that rare Anthony Davis/Giannis generational talent and presto contenders. That admitted pipe dream possibility is gone.

#2 The win rate of the team sending out the dollar for 2 quarters, a dime and a nickel in these trades historically loses badly or at best loses the deal by a bit like 95% of the time.

However, regardless of how bad the 2 negatives are, having him leave for nothing is infinitely worse and by far the most likely scenario if he isn’t traded. That makes a trade ASAP about 1000x more sensible especially in the midst of a quality draft class unlike ‘20.

Consider that league fans based on prior experience watching these things play out see it as 89-11 that Beal is gone via trade or Free Agency. While fans don’t have inside info here, they are experienced watching these scenarios play out and that number sounds right. I’m not betting on 11% especially considering that even w/Beal+ an all star+ another legit player we were never a contender to begin with and were much worse now while the East is far tougher than the peak Wall-Beal-Gortat years.

Trade him and blow it the hell up. Post haste.

[nate33]

This just isn’t true.

The very same Celtics were on the opposite side of this with Kyrie.

The Celtics didn't want Kyrie anymore because he was a headcase and team cancer. I remember Bill Simmons saying he would happily drive Kyrie to the airport. They were fine with him leaving and used the resulting cap room to acquire Kemba Walker.

Lebron promised when he arrived for Cleveland II and left.

Lebron promised to deliver a title. He did and then came back two more seasons and fell short. By then, the rest of the supporting cast was too old and the team was capped out. I don't think anyone in Cleveland expected him to stay for the rest of his career toiling for 50 wins and 2nd round exits.

Read on Twitter

Paul George said the same w/OKC and left a year later.

Yeah, for a fat package of picks and players because it was an offer from the Clippers that OKC couldn't refuse.

Aldridge made all sorts of Blazers for life promised before bailing.

I don't think this is true. Aldridge was well known to be unhappy in Portland, first in Roy's shadow, then in Lillard's. It's true he didn't specifically tell them ahead of time that he was leaving, but it's not quite the same thing as Beal who has stated over and over again that he likes it in Washington and that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Boozer’s original stiffing of the Cavs was even worse than LeBron making a TV special to break fans hearts.

You're going back to 2004 to find another example?

There are a couple of other examples. I believe Gordon Hayward surprised Utah when he departed. Kevin Durant was pretty ambiguous about his plans in Golden State. Although in that case, Golden State was willing to take the chance because they were real contenders. The same goes for Kawhi in Toronto. If those teams weren't likely Finals participants, ownership may have considered making a trade before their free agency departure. So I don't think it's the same situation as us.

The big cautionary tales in recent NBA history are Kemba Walker and Gordon Hayward. It's certainly possible that Beal does the same thing, but it's not nearly as certain as you make it sound. I wouldn't start panicking unless Beal refrains from opting in on his player option this summer. If that happens, then I think the Wizards should start testing the trade waters, even if it means only getting 75 cents on the dollar. But prior to that, I'm only trading Beal for a godfather offer.

[Dat2U]

I don't want to keep Beal on the team. I was the first, or one of the first at least, to advocate trading Wall before he signed the ridiculous super max contract and before he was injured. Caught a lot of flak for that position. We should trade Beal ASAP because:

-- He's wasting his prime here
-- our coach is awful
-- the team has no discernable strategic plan to win a championship
-- he's inhibiting the growth of our younger players by playing one-on-one basketball and trying to score 40 points a game
-- he's healthy now and very well could be the opposite soon (just like Wall)

Get the most we can for him now, develop a plan to win a championship in the next four years, hire a real coach, and hold everyone accountable. My two cents.

The first 3 i get, the last 2 you could have left off. There is no reason for Beal to stop shooting when he's as efficient as he's been. He's kept us in alot of these games. You could say Westbrook's shot jacking inhibits growth because he's supposed to be the PG but goes 6 for 21 every night and his decision making is generally erratic. As for health, you could say that about any player in the league, there's nothing about Beal rn that makes a higher risk than anyone else.

In my opinion, for what little it is worth, Beal is a high-value asset, so it is a higher risk. You can't put him on the same risk profile as Wagner for assistance. For this reason, you are taking a chance with every passing moment. What if Beal goes down in 2 weeks with a serious injury? Are we going to be smacking our heads on the table? On the other hand, if Wagner goes down, will our reaction be the same?

That means you resign Beal instead of trading him and you have a clear excuse to tank in the process.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Also, if we have to trade Beal, I'd much rather trade for Wiseman + MIN pick than any other package given this draft's strength, and I don't even like Wiseman as a prospect that much. But Wiseman does have actual star potential, and it puts us in a better position to get Suggs/Cunningham (let's be real though, nobody is trading down from Suggs/Cunningham).

[The Consiglieri]

This just isn’t true.

The very same Celtics were on the opposite side of this with Kyrie.

The Celtics didn't want Kyrie anymore because he was a headcase and team cancer. I remember Bill Simmons saying he would happily drive Kyrie to the airport. They were fine with him leaving and used the resulting cap room to acquire Kemba Walker.

Lebron promised when he arrived for Cleveland II and left.

Lebron promised to deliver a title. He did and then came back two more seasons and fell short. By then, the rest of the supporting cast was too old and the team was capped out. I don't think anyone in Cleveland expected him to stay for the rest of his career toiling for 50 wins and 2nd round exits.

Read on Twitter

Paul George said the same w/OKC and left a year later.

Yeah, for a fat package of picks and players because it was an offer from the Clippers that OKC couldn't refuse.

Aldridge made all sorts of Blazers for life promised before bailing.

I don't think this is true. Aldridge was well known to be unhappy in Portland, first in Roy's shadow, then in Lillard's. It's true he didn't specifically tell them ahead of time that he was leaving, but it's not quite the same thing as Beal who has stated over and over again that he likes it in Washington and that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

Boozer’s original stiffing of the Cavs was even worse than LeBron making a TV special to break fans hearts.

You're going back to 2004 to find another example?

There are a couple of other examples. I believe Gordon Hayward surprised Utah when he departed. Kevin Durant was pretty ambiguous about his plans in Golden State. Although in that case, Golden State was willing to take the chance because they were real contenders. The same goes for Kawhi in Toronto. If those teams weren't likely Finals participants, ownership may have considered making a trade before their free agency departure. So I don't think it's the same situation as us.

The big cautionary tales in recent NBA history are Kemba Walker and Gordon Hayward. It's certainly possible that Beal does the same thing, but it's not nearly as certain as you make it sound. I wouldn't start panicking unless Beal refrains from opting in on his player option this summer. If that happens, then I think the Wizards should start testing the trade waters, even if it means only getting 75 cents on the dollar. But prior to that, I'm only trading Beal for a godfather offer.

#1: The whole reason the Celtics soured on Kyrie is premised on the fact that he clearly after saying he was all in, wasn't all in, and it was obvious, it was basically analogous to Draymond Green snapping at Durant, Celtics fans heard Kyrie's promises, then saw his act and his clear backtracking off of them. I remember Bill Simmons saying the same, but this was after Kyrie's flightiness and impending departure became obvious.


#2: Read the bleacher article, it references LeBron's early statements. LeBron was within his rights to leave, just like all the other times, but he also needlessly and clearly stated that he was too old to do the free agency thing and was there for good, only to bail when it became obvious the team wouldn't win again and his kids wanted to be in LA.

#3 yeah, I doubt OKC is sad either, they stole from LAC blind, no doubt, I would kill for an analogous heaven sent deal for an obviously superior talent in Beal, but yeah, George's word meaning nothing is the point, since you argued that rarely happens.

I then added Boozer's as the bleacher report referenced it as perhaps the most egregious example, not because that's all I could find lol, I pulled up one article, took 1 minute to find it, and out popped some immediate examples that was more about the problem of free agent departures and player concentrations alongside conspicuous examples of players words being shaken to say the least. Regardless, you can believe it, or not, I'm not interested in converting you to any argument, I just find the rather sanguine attitude about Beal perplexing. If there's one thing we've all noticed from sports the past few decades it's that athletes have learned from owners that they need to prioritize #1, because owners certainly won't and as such, utilizing your power, especially in a league that hyperconcentrates talent and competitiveness because the genuine paucity of truly elite difference making talent, is the only way you're likely to make the most money and win championships. This mean's that generally leaving, players nearly always leave when they're Free Agents unless their current situation is the best available option in terms of $$$ and contending.

I can't understand for the life of me why Beal would stay other than familial reasons, if his kids love DC, and he's willing to sacrifice his career for his kids. That could happen, it was a bit of the motivation for LeBron with LA. Of course LA has a history of pulling elite talent in this way.

[NatP4]

Pretty sold on the Miami deal at this point. Been watching Miami games lately, Achiuwa might be the best piece coming back in that deal, he’s really good. Super efficient, great finisher. Able to switch 1-5 with him on the floor. The possibility of a Mobley-Achiuwa frontcourt in the future is really exciting.

Now up to 16.5 points&11.6 rebounds per36 on 61.6% TS. Raptor player ratings love the guy, rank him as the 2nd best player on the Heat this year.

Herro, Achiuwa, Robinson, 2025 1st, 2027 1st. Get it done

[prime1time]

https://poll.fm/10722381/results?msg=voted

Interesting to see what NBA fans think. I voted in the minority - that he'll stay long-term, but I was just being a homer.

Not a surprise to me. All guys in Beals situation, w/only rare exceptions, leave, either via trade or Free Agency. I’ve been flummoxed for the past two or so years by the plethora of posters who simply believe his public statements on the issue (statements I think most would take w/a grain of salt if uttered by other teams players).

I do understand that by being locals your more privy to certain inside things that people like me way out West would not necessarily be clued into, but generally I think fan bases tend to be naive about their own players while more circumspect or cynical w/others from other teams which can help explain why canvases can still be blind sided by potential trades like this even in this day and age.

Lol, at all. The reality is that there are examples of people staying and winning. Kobe in 2007 demanded a trade. Wade could have left Miami before the big 3 but he stayed. No one is advocating keeping Beal indefinitely. What people have argued is to not trade him prematurely but rather try to build a team around him. If it doesn't work then we move him as the last option. Not sure why you would mischaracterize the ast majority of opinions regarding Beal. Show me posters who advocate that we should keep Beal because of his public statements. In fact, his public statements have been very clear. If we don't win, he wants out. That's why he signed a contract with a player option.

Why is the most logical approach to building a good team, trading the best player the team has had in a decade and not trying to see if you can build around him? It's easy to criticize because the team is struggling but before the Bubble Westbrook was putting up 27. 7 and 7 on over 50% shooting from the field. Why should we advocate for trading Beal before we even know how this season will play out? Trading Beal doesn't guarantee anything but an extended rebuild that will most likely leave us worse in a worse position than we are now. My position on Beal has not changed. When you have the best SG in the league, you try to build around him. If you can't then you trade him. He's gotten better every year and is now having the best start to a season of his career. Yet all I can read is how he needs to go.

I'd rather fire the coach, make major trades to everyone else on this team but Beal and really, genuinely try to build a team around Beal than just move him. You win games with great players. Not with future draft picks, not with potential, not with a bunch of above-average players but great players. Of all the players that were moved. How many teams moved these players before they exhausted all options to win with them?

[nate33]

Pretty sold on the Miami deal at this point. Been watching Miami games lately, Achiuwa might be the best piece coming back in that deal, he’s really good. Super efficient, great finisher. Able to switch 1-5 with him on the floor. The possibility of a Mobley-Achiuwa frontcourt in the future is really exciting.

Now up to 16.5 points&11.6 rebounds per36 on 61.6% TS. Raptor player ratings love the guy, rank him as the 2nd best player on the Heat this year.

Herro, Achiuwa, Robinson, 2025 1st, 2027 1st. Get it done

I think I like it better if we send Herro to Golden State in exchange for the Minnesota pick. It makes us even worse, guaranteeing a top 3 pick, and hopefully that Minny pick is #4 or 5.

Hmmm. Even better, let's send Robinson to Golden State and keep Herro. But Golden State would need to dump salary in order to afford Robinson's new contract. Would Golden State trade us Wiggins and the Minnesota pick for Robinson, Troy Brown, and expiring contracts? For Golden State, Brown can replace what Wiggins does and they add Robinson to do what Klay does. And dumping Wiggins salary saves them a fortune in luxtax payments. They would also get Iggy from Miami as one of the filler contracts to make the trade work out. That seems like it could be worth a lotto pick.

For us, we absorb Wiggins' albatross contract in addition to keeping Westbrook's, but the pain is over in 2 years and Wiggins is actually a playable NBA player. Meanwhile, the rest of our team is full of young rookie contract guys. Tell Westbrook to sit out the season and get healthy and we roll with:

PG Herro/Neto
SG Wiggins/Mathews
SF Avdija/Bonga
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Achiuwa/Wagner

Next year, we add two top 5 picks from the 2021 draft, plus Bryant and a hopefully a fully healed Westbrook and that's a pretty nice rebuild. There's actually a window of opportunity in 2023 to land a max free agent. Wiggins and Westbrook will be off the books and we will have only Bertans, rookie contracts, and modest cap holds on RFA's Herro and Hachimura.



So the deal would actually be:

Washington trades: Beal, Brown, Lopez
Washington receives: Herro, Achiuwa, Wiggins, 2021 MIN 1st, 2025 MIA 1st, 2027 MIA 1st

Golden State trades: Wiggins, 2021 MIN 1st
Golden State receives: Robinson, Iggy, Brown, M.Leonard

Miami trades: Herro, Achiuwa, Robinson, Iggy, M.Leonard, 2025 MIA 1st, 2027 MIA 1st
Miami receives: Beal, Lopez

Some of the filler can be tweaked. I tried to send everyone filler contracts to make up for the positions that they lost. It could also work with Brown going to Miami (to compensate for the loss of Iggy) if Olynyk goes to Golden State instead of Leonard.