2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[NatP4]

Way to early and Im just not involved enough, but so far:
Like/Underrated: Suggs, Cade, Mobley, Moody, Springer, Bouknight, Kispert, Harper, Butler, Scottie Lewis

Dont Like/Overrated: Kuminga, Green, Nix, Z. Williams, Boston.

Mostly agree, I request you revisit Nix. I really like him. Elite finishing and driving ability like a SGA, really good basketball IQ, ability to shoot off the dribble, strong frame, great vision and playmaking, really smart player, maturity in interviews. Read reports about him being a good on and off ball defender, looks really good defensively with active hands in videos. Seems like he can play either guard position. I almost prefer guards that play below the rim nowadays, and that would be the big knock on him at this point.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I see an absolute steal that is being valued incorrectly below guys like Kuminga, Green, Williams, and Johnson. I’m curious as to what you don’t like about him?

I agree that Nix has the high basketball IQ, unselfishness and overall feel for the game that should make him a successful pro. My concern is that he doesn't seem to have much explosion or athleticism. He might pan out to be a quality "manager of the game" type of PG in the Malcolm Brogdan/Jalen Brunson mold, but he doesn't appear to have the ability to break down a defense and get them into rotation like a Damion Lillard, or Ja Morant.

Billups/Lowry would be the absolute best case scenario, but guys with that type of smarts and competitiveness are really rare. It's risky to make that assumption for every smart PG with ordinary athleticism. It's like assuming every 6-8 defensive-minded PF can be Draymond Green.

He might be a steal if he drops into the teens, though.

There is a lot of in between there. Nix is a blue chip 5 star recruit ranked in the top 20 or so by every major recruiting service. He’s 6’5 200lbs, we’re not talking about some mid major underdog here. There are plenty of below the rim PGs that still have elite athletic traits like a quick first step, change of direction, body control. There are actually very few quality PGs that play above the rim in the NBA now. People questioned Harden and Irving’s athletic ability coming out of college. Both are below the rim players. He seems to draw a lot of help in the videos I have seen, but it is high school.

He’s not a 6’8 PF or 6’0 PG like Brunson though.

[NatP4]

To your point though, I think Nix would be a good pick if it falls after Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs, and Johnson(maybe) are off the board. He is closer to game manager than your typical top 3 blue chip prospect like a Morant.

[pcbothwel]

To your point though, I think Nix would be a good pick if it falls after Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs, and Johnson(maybe) are off the board. He is closer to game manager than your typical top 3 blue chip prospect like a Morant.

Agreed. I only thought of him as overrated in the top 6, but in the mid teens he gets real interesting. That said, my pick as a guy who will be an absolute stud is Franz Wagner, Mo's brother.
His scoring prowess, vision/IQ, off ball movement...elite.
Look at him vs Maryland. Ridiculous range, underrated athlete, great passing. He's like a better Deni.

Watch on YouTube

- Per 40 of 17 / 10 / 4 with 3.5 STOCKS and a 3:1 AST:TOV Ratio
- 52 /34 /84 shooter (62% TS)
- ORtg/DRtg of 130 / 88
- OBPM/DBPM of 6.6 / 6.9 (13.4 BPM)
- 19 y/o Sophomore (Younger than Suggs or Mobley)

Guy will sky rocket into the lotto. I see Otto Porter / Gordon Hayward all over this kid. Efficient points, rebounds, ball mover, underrated defense.
Comparison to Hayward / Otto / Tatum
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=franz-wagner--gordon-hayward--otto-porter--jayson-tatum

[NatP4]

Good call on Wagner. I didn’t think about him because oddly enough, I don’t see him listed in the top 15 of any of these mock drafts. Talk about a safe bet to be a good NBA player.

[NatP4]

So far for me, without having done a ton of research:

Like: Jalen Suggs, Evan Mobley, Cade Cunningham, Scottie Barnes, Jalen Johnson, Daishen Nix, Scottie Lewis, Jared Butler, Franz Wagner Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Corey Kispert

Don’t like: Jalen Green, Jonathan Kuminga, Ziaire Williams, Greg Brown, BJ Boston

[pcbothwel]

Good call on Wagner. I didn’t think about him because oddly enough, I don’t see him listed in the top 15 of any of these mock drafts. Talk about a safe bet to be a good NBA player.

I mean, We have to see how the other half of the season falls out...
But compared to Hayward, he's younger, better scorer from all 3 levels, twice as many assist, half as many turnovers, almost double the STOCKS.
If Hayward went 9 and Otto 3... How the hell does this kid not go in the top 8?

If we could deal Beal and end up with Suggs (Beal/Brandon Roy/Lowry) and Wagner in the mid teens (Hayward/Otto) then we have an elite group of prospects.

[payitforward]

To your point though, I think Nix would be a good pick if it falls after Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs, and Johnson(maybe) are off the board. He is closer to game manager than your typical top 3 blue chip prospect like a Morant.

Agreed. I only thought of him as overrated in the top 6, but in the mid teens he gets real interesting. That said, my pick as a guy who will be an absolute stud is Franz Wagner, Mo's brother.
His scoring prowess, vision/IQ, off ball movement...elite.
Look at him vs Maryland. Ridiculous range, underrated athlete, great passing. He's like a better Deni....

- Per 40 of 17 / 10 / 4 with 3.5 STOCKS and a 3:1 AST:TOV Ratio
- 52 /34 /84 shooter (62% TS)
- ORtg/DRtg of 130 / 88
- OBPM/DBPM of 6.6 / 6.9 (13.4 BPM)
- 19 y/o Sophomore (Younger than Suggs or Mobley)

Guy will sky rocket into the lotto. I see Otto Porter / Gordon Hayward all over this kid. Efficient points, rebounds, ball mover, underrated defense.
Comparison to Hayward / Otto / Tatum
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=franz-wagner--gordon-hayward--otto-porter--jayson-tatum

Wagner looks really good!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Watch for Jared Butler of Baylor (not Jared Baylor of Butler) to shoot up the mocks. He's a do it all combo guard who's improved dramatically at both ends. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jared-butler-1.html He reminds me of a young George Hill. Made a very good decision to not come out for the 2020 draft. NBAdraft.net has him at 38 now. I think he'll end up in the lottery.

Is Butler better for the Wizards than Ayo Dosunnu? I'm not familiar yet with Butler. I like Ayotte in round two but I did catch highlights of Butler on ESPN Sportscenter. He's quick for sure,

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wiseman and Kyrie Irving didn't play much NCAA ball. LaMelo Ball seems to be excelling from a diversely different route to the NBA.

The prodigies stand out well before they reach the league.

Deni Advidja has already converted me into a believer that there are different paths to greatness. OTOH James Edwards, Killian Hayes, Michael Kidd Gilchrist all make me leery of top picks.

Who knows for sure? Evan Mobley seems like a great pick but would you rather have a Tyrese Haliburton, who is already looking good to great?

Which prospects elected to skip college, play in the G-league, and turned out to be good NBA players in recent years? (Genuinely asking)

Isn't this the first year the G-League permitted guys straight out of high school to join?

I recall other players skipping college to go straight to the g league, but I guess this is the first year of this developmental program that is definitely not just a glorified AAU team that pays players up to 1 million dollars instead of 125k.

It says they only play 10-12 exhibition games in a year? How much are we even going to find out about these guys before draft night?

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[Ruzious]

Watch for Jared Butler of Baylor (not Jared Baylor of Butler) to shoot up the mocks. He's a do it all combo guard who's improved dramatically at both ends. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jared-butler-1.html He reminds me of a young George Hill. Made a very good decision to not come out for the 2020 draft. NBAdraft.net has him at 38 now. I think he'll end up in the lottery.

Is Butler better for the Wizards than Ayo Dosunnu? I'm not familiar yet with Butler. I like Ayotte in round two but I did catch highlights of Butler on ESPN Sportscenter. He's quick for sure,

I don't know. Ayo was good against MD and is probably a better scorer and has better size, but Butler seems to be the better defender and has a better 3 point shot. Ayo is more in the Coby White mold, while Butler's more in the George Hill mold - not that they're exact molds - I had to add that because some wiseguy will come here and say "OMG, Ayo's game is nothing like Coby's!"

[Ruzious]

Jalen Jones follows that very impressive game with... a stinker, going 4-8, 9 points, 0 assists and 6 to's. Duke, with all their HS All Americans is 5-5. Nice all-around game for Suggs in a wipeout win as Gonzaga is 15-0. Big game for Mobely. Cade Cunningham didn't play for OKC - I don't know why.

[nate33]

This guy looks like an interesting prospect for the 2nd round. He's a senior and I can't find his actual age anywhere, but he is a prototypical 3&D forward. 6-8. Long arms. Plays good D. Has figured out the 3-point shot this year, shooting 48% this year after shooting less than 29% in each of his first 3 years. He must have tweaked his shooting form because his FT% is also up about 20% from his first 3 years.

Read on Twitter

Oh yeah. We don't have a 2nd round pick.

[prime1time]

Why would we draft Franz Wagner? We already have Rui, Advija, Bonga, Brown Jr. Unless you think he's a lock for multiple all-star games there's really no justification.

[Ruzious]

Sharife Cooper of Auburn is a very high usage PG who could be climbing up high in the mocks. Granted, he really needs to improve his scoring efficiency and 3 point shot, but the raw talent appears to be there.

[NatP4]

Jalen Jones follows that very impressive game with... a stinker, going 4-8, 9 points, 0 assists and 6 to's. Duke, with all their HS All Americans is 5-5. Nice all-around game for Suggs in a wipeout win as Gonzaga is 15-0. Big game for Mobely. Cade Cunningham didn't play for OKC - I don't know why.

Jared Butler put on an absolute show in that OSU-Baylor game. He’s probably the best guard in the country right now along with Suggs. Some team is going to get an absolute stud outside the lottery, and he’s only going to be 21 on draft night despite declaring after his junior season.

[Ruzious]

Jalen Jones follows that very impressive game with... a stinker, going 4-8, 9 points, 0 assists and 6 to's. Duke, with all their HS All Americans is 5-5. Nice all-around game for Suggs in a wipeout win as Gonzaga is 15-0. Big game for Mobely. Cade Cunningham didn't play for OKC - I don't know why.

Jared Butler put on an absolute show in that OSU-Baylor game. He’s probably the best guard in the country right now along with Suggs. Some team is going to get an absolute stud outside the lottery, and he’s only going to be 21 on draft night despite declaring after his junior season.

Butler really does everything well - like this year's Haliburton except shorter and stronger. NBAdraft.net has him at 38.

[NatP4]

Jalen Jones follows that very impressive game with... a stinker, going 4-8, 9 points, 0 assists and 6 to's. Duke, with all their HS All Americans is 5-5. Nice all-around game for Suggs in a wipeout win as Gonzaga is 15-0. Big game for Mobely. Cade Cunningham didn't play for OKC - I don't know why.

Jared Butler put on an absolute show in that OSU-Baylor game. He’s probably the best guard in the country right now along with Suggs. Some team is going to get an absolute stud outside the lottery, and he’s only going to be 21 on draft night despite declaring after his junior season.

Butler really does everything well - like this year's Haliburton except shorter and stronger. NBAdraft.net has him at 38.

You said it, last two games (against Kansas&Oklahoma State) Butler has shot 13-16 from 3pt range. Now up to 50% from 3 on 81 attempts for the season. Absolute lockdown defender with active hands that racks up steals. 2nd in the country in assists per game.

I bet he ends up going somewhere in the 15-20 range, but he’s going to be an absolute steal. I would love to trade down for him+whatever else if we don’t end up picking in the top 3

[pcbothwel]

Why would we draft Franz Wagner? We already have Rui, Advija, Bonga, Brown Jr. Unless you think he's a lock for multiple all-star games there's really no justification.

Sorry, but this is really misguided. The only archetypes where you worry about overlap are
1) Lead/ball handling guards that either cant defend well and/or are poor off ball players. I.E. Kyrie, DLo, Wall, Westbrook, etc.
2) Center Only bigs that can only defend 1 position. I.E. Thomas Bryant, KAT, etc.

Other than that, you can mix and match players quite often. And as to your assertion about what we "already have." Deni projects as a plus defender at 2, possibly 3 positions. Combined with his high IQ & activity, he can play with multiple lineups.
Brown cant get off the bench, but is a playmaking 2, Bonga is a low usage role player with defensive versatility, and Rui hasnt shown enough to be counted on as a starter on a playoff team.

Franz, undeniably, is far better and more accomplished than all those guys at the same age. Obviously a lot depends on work ethic moving forward, but he is a better prospect than Hayward or Otto were and were picked 3 & 8.

[Ruzious]

Why would we draft Franz Wagner? We already have Rui, Advija, Bonga, Brown Jr. Unless you think he's a lock for multiple all-star games there's really no justification.

Sorry, but this is really misguided. The only archetypes where you worry about overlap are
1) Lead/ball handling guards that either cant defend well and/or are poor off ball players. I.E. Kyrie, DLo, Wall, Westbrook, etc.
2) Center Only bigs that can only defend 1 position. I.E. Thomas Bryant, KAT, etc.

Other than that, you can mix and match players quite often. And as to your assertion about what we "already have." Deni projects as a plus defender at 2, possibly 3 positions. Combined with his high IQ & activity, he can play with multiple lineups.
Brown cant get off the bench, but is a playmaking 2, Bonga is a low usage role player with defensive versatility, and Rui hasnt shown enough to be counted on as a starter on a playoff team.

Franz, undeniably, is far better and more accomplished than all those guys at the same age. Obviously a lot depends on work ethic moving forward, but he is a better prospect than Hayward or Otto were and were picked 3 & 8.

Only thing is - Franz does not project well defensively, and we're a very bad defensive team. That doesn't mean we don't consider him, but if we do pick him, we would need to make more adjustments in our roster, imo - and I'm doubtful we have a GM who can handle that adequately.

[NatP4]

Why would we draft Franz Wagner? We already have Rui, Advija, Bonga, Brown Jr. Unless you think he's a lock for multiple all-star games there's really no justification.

Sorry, but this is really misguided. The only archetypes where you worry about overlap are
1) Lead/ball handling guards that either cant defend well and/or are poor off ball players. I.E. Kyrie, DLo, Wall, Westbrook, etc.
2) Center Only bigs that can only defend 1 position. I.E. Thomas Bryant, KAT, etc.

Other than that, you can mix and match players quite often. And as to your assertion about what we "already have." Deni projects as a plus defender at 2, possibly 3 positions. Combined with his high IQ & activity, he can play with multiple lineups.
Brown cant get off the bench, but is a playmaking 2, Bonga is a low usage role player with defensive versatility, and Rui hasnt shown enough to be counted on as a starter on a playoff team.

Franz, undeniably, is far better and more accomplished than all those guys at the same age. Obviously a lot depends on work ethic moving forward, but he is a better prospect than Hayward or Otto were and were picked 3 & 8.

Agreed. Wagner rebounds well enough to play as a 4/5, and has the ability to create for teamates and handle the ball like a lead guard. He could probably help your team at any position. Don’t overthink it here, you draft players that are good at basketball.

BPA over fit regardless