Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread

[Snidely FC]

The zone is ridiculous glad Miles busted it

[BigSlam]

I hope JB can play SF/PF, because it would appear that Miles is a better coach than him!!


(I joke, I joke).

[JMAC3]

I am overall a pretty big supporter of James Borrego. I think he is good with media, seems to have a good relationship with our players, and seems to be aligned for the most part with Jordan/Kupcheck.

However, this is a big year for him in terms of whether he is the coach of the future, or if he is replaceable in my mind. Here is the biggest issue I have with Borrego. Not Starting LaMelo.

Reason 1. What does History say? I know this year is different than most with no summer league, training camp etc..., but the first question I want you to ask yourself is how many truly elite point guards that were top picks did not come in and start right away?

All these guys started day 1.. CP3, Lillard, Trae, Doncic, Garland, Sexton, Kyrie, Curry, Wall, Morant, Russell, Lonzo, Elfrid Payton and many more

Shai (Started every game after first 10),
Fox only started 2 games in first 15 and then became starter. (George Hill was starter)
Westbrook, did not start until 16th game. (Earl Watson was starter wtf lol)

Guys who did not really start many games their rookie year... Kemba and Jamal Murray.

Just seems like at this point, we are going a very untraditional route for LaMelo.

Reason 2. Who is starting ahead of him? It is not like we have a Westbrook, DeAaron Fox, Chris Paul etc.. in front of Ball that is preventing him from starting. It is Devonte Graham and a struggling Devonte Graham at that. Ball has played better than Graham in all but mayyyybe 3 games this year... does not seem fair to Ball to play a guy who is clearly not as good as him over him at this point.

Reason 3. How is the team playing? This is probably the biggest reason in my mind to start LaMelo, we have a losing record so what we are doing now is not yielding good results. Dive in further and the starting lineup is even worse that the W/L results as we have a group who plays poorly with each other. We start every single game down 10 and usually carry that 10 point deficit deep into the 4th quarter before we get serious and try to fight our way out. Why not put LaMelo in the lineup and see if we can play with the lead early?

Reason 4. Is there any doubt long-term? It would be one thing right now if we all were not sure if LaMelo is the starter in the future, but we all know that next year LaMelo will be our starter moving forward for the foreseeable future so why wait? We are just further delaying the process to know what issues the long-term starting lineup will cause and therefore we are wasting even more time playing a group together that we know is not the long-term solution.

[DY_nasty]

Read on Twitter

posting it here too as well

didn't think miles of all people would be the one to call coaching out

[BigSlam]

Read on Twitter

posting it here too as well

didn't think miles of all people would be the one to call coaching out

I do wonder how often this sort of thing happens, but we just don’t hear about it.

Or if this type of in game expression from a player is a really unusual thing to happen?

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

posting it here too as well

didn't think miles of all people would be the one to call coaching out

I do wonder how often this sort of thing happens, but we just don’t hear about it.

Or if this type of in game expression from a player is a really unusual thing to happen?

I would say this type of things happen a lot, especially by veteran/star players. It is not crazy for a coach to say "let's run the play for this guy" then a player say "nah, they will be ready for this so we need to run this play here". Or sometimes players will even say "we need to put him in the game now because they are doing this". I think it shows that Miles cares about winning and is not afraid to challenge his coaches and teammates.

[DY_nasty]

i see it more as the guy who's been coddled most by the FO/staff dropping the charade but to each their own

[euphorbus]

The Hornets are 36-46, 39-43, 23-42, and 7-10 in four seasons under Coach Borrego. I see little or no improvement.

Time for Borrego to go.

[DY_nasty]

i don't think he needs to be fired (yet) but i do think mitch's "hands off, coaches coach" stuff has to end

in the context of this season, he's just not showing he can adapt to the league as fast as it adapts to him. when you're losing the same way over and over as bad teams drop their own gameplans to take the path of least resistance against you - then its bad.

this is a low expectation season by every account but its been a series of red flags from him

[Rays Pompadour]

The law of diminishing returns will bear itself upon James Borrego. It's inevitable because he lacks a superstar, the one consistent factor in all winning franchises. And Mitch Kupchak isn't helping him, at least not at the moment.

At some point, the mass volume of losing will cost him his job, as it should. Just a matter of time.

[DY_nasty]

i don't particularly care about losing if its something new most of the time lol

teams that are consistently bad at x, become suddenly great at x - when they play us.

[SWedd523]

i don't think he needs to be fired (yet) but i do think mitch's "hands off, coaches coach" stuff has to end

in the context of this season, he's just not showing he can adapt to the league as fast as it adapts to him. when you're losing the same way over and over as bad teams drop their own gameplans to take the path of least resistance against you - then its bad.

I mean, look at the roster, right?

How many ways can you gameplan this team, both from an us perspective and them perspective?

You're talking about a great 3rd option trying to be a 1st option (Hayward), a raw rookie PG, then a lot of role players and dudes who shouldn't get more than 10-15 minutes a night.

Just how creative can you expect him to be?

When you're an opponent and you know how predictable the guys are, it makes life easy.

I'm not at all saying Borrego is a great coach, because I don't think you can make that judgment without seeing them leading a talent roster, but Red Auerbach himself could only do so much with the roster as currently constructed.

[euphorbus]

I mean, look at the roster, right?

How many ways can you gameplan this team, both from an us perspective and them perspective?

You're talking about a great 3rd option trying to be a 1st option (Hayward), a raw rookie PG, then a lot of role players and dudes who shouldn't get more than 10-15 minutes a night.

Just how creative can you expect him to be?

When you're an opponent and you know how predictable the guys are, it makes life easy.

I'm not at all saying Borrego is a great coach, because I don't think you can make that judgment without seeing them leading a talent roster, but Red Auerbach himself could only do so much with the roster as currently constructed.

I think there is a lot of talent on the roster, although, as Ray's Pompadour points out, it is unbalanced. One lottery pick, Malik Monk, sits on the bench night after night. Gordon Hayward has already proven he can carry the team; I would classify him as a first or second option, otherwise the team way overpaid. He is shooting .435 from three. Miles Bridges is talented, but I question whether his development has been as rounded as it should be, for example, in the way he avoids contact, or the lack of defensive presence. Then we have the best player in the 2020 draft, LaMelo Ball. I will give the coach some credit for his rapid development.

I expect a certain amount of creativity and it's lacking, night after night, or the Hornets would not be getting torched from the three-point line by teams and players unknown for their long-range prowess. This season is just as bad as the last in that respect. More than that, the Hornets lack discipline. There are so many areas where the team is poorly coached, I hardly know where to begin. There are only two guys who have played over ten games with a positive +/-, Graham and Bridges, and both need to be coming off the bench, Graham because he is not up to the task, and Bridges because he has done so well in that role. Use a starting lineup that can actually play together, with a defense that guards the perimeter instead of collapsing every time someone dribbles inside the arc, and cultivate a lot more discipline. Then the Hornets would stand more than a fighting chance.

[Rays Pompadour]

Yeah, but, COVID...lack of practice time...heavy schedule!

[SWedd523]

I mean, look at the roster, right?

How many ways can you gameplan this team, both from an us perspective and them perspective?

You're talking about a great 3rd option trying to be a 1st option (Hayward), a raw rookie PG, then a lot of role players and dudes who shouldn't get more than 10-15 minutes a night.

Just how creative can you expect him to be?

When you're an opponent and you know how predictable the guys are, it makes life easy.

I'm not at all saying Borrego is a great coach, because I don't think you can make that judgment without seeing them leading a talent roster, but Red Auerbach himself could only do so much with the roster as currently constructed.

I think there is a lot of talent on the roster, although, as Ray's Pompadour points out, it is unbalanced. One lottery pick, Malik Monk, sits on the bench night after night. Gordon Hayward has already proven he can carry the team; I would classify him as a first or second option, otherwise the team way overpaid. He is shooting .435 from three. Miles Bridges is talented, but I question whether his development has been as rounded as it should be, for example, in the way he avoids contact, or the lack of defensive presence. Then we have the best player in the 2020 draft, LaMelo Ball. I will give the coach some credit for his rapid development.

I expect a certain amount of creativity and it's lacking, night after night, or the Hornets would not be getting torched from the three-point line by teams and players unknown for their long-range prowess. This season is just as bad as the last in that respect. More than that, the Hornets lack discipline. There are so many areas where the team is poorly coached, I hardly know where to begin. There are only two guys who have played over ten games with a positive +/-, Graham and Bridges, and both need to be coming off the bench, Graham because he is not up to the task, and Bridges because he has done so well in that role. Use a starting lineup that can actually play together, with a defense that guards the perimeter instead of collapsing every time someone dribbles inside the arc, and cultivate a lot more discipline. Then the Hornets would stand more than a fighting chance.

I have a difficult time entertaining an argument that says we have a lot of talent, then references Malik Monk and Miles Bridges

Then says Gordo is a 1st option because the Hornets pay him a lot of money


That is not how literally any of this works. That sort of mindset is what leads fans to either unrealistic expectations or some sense of letdown when a team that has only like 3-4 dudes who would get burn on most rosters across the league.

There's only so many different ways you can make **** soup before you realize that it just tastes like ****

[Soul Rebel]

This roster lacks balance. When I look at it, I see a bunch of assets without parameters and fit.

I do think it's a combination of a few things and we need to be holding Mitch accountable as well. The thing is that we as fans, lack the patience sometimes and I'm willing to fully allow the pandemic/shortened offseason/practice/summer league/etc. to be a crutch for now. The grace period this year was the 20 game mark, so hopefully we will see some changes coming soon.

Over the next couple of weeks, more of a direction with the roster. Continuing to play small ball with Biz/PJ and depending on Cody as your primetime center is not the answer. Too many tweener players leading to a disheveled lineup and the rotations that JB is rolling out is getting annoying.

Ball is going to hit his rookie wall pretty soon too, so get ready for more struggles and see how his character and personality shine more during the rough times.

I don't think JB's seat is heating up yet, but he and Mitch have to figure this roster configuration out.

[Braggins]

The team is performing about as well as I expected.

[BlackOutBuzz]

I think we're performing a bit lower than our overall talent level, but it's not by a crazy margin. That said, a lot of this Borrego stuff is starting to wear on me.

Not starting LaMelo, ok fine, but this short leash thing only applying to bench players is grating. And why did we draft two bigs if we're not even gonna play them when Biz is the only healthy center? And also, why are we still playing Biz? Where even is Monk?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[BigSlam]

I do feel for JB.

You can only play with the hand you’re dealt, and as I was saying last night the roster is so far out of balance it’s got to be hard to figure out rotations to get your best players on the court when there is so much redundancy on the roster.

That said, I don’t think you should push players into rolls you want filled unless they are suited to those rolls.

I don’t think Tae is a score 1st PG but that’s what he’s being made to do.
I don’t think Gordo is a 3rd or 4th option (he’s a 1st or 2nd) but he’s a passenger at times with Tae a and Terry.
I don’t think Melo is an off guard (he should be lead guard at all times IMO) but that’s what he’s being forced to do when playing with Tae and/or Terry.
I don’t think PJ is a primarily soft stretch 4.
I don’t think that Cody is a stretch 5.
I don’t think Biz should be featured in offensive sets.
I don’t think that Monk is a continual DNP-CD.

The only guys who seem to be used in their right, more natural way is Terry (scoring off guard) and Miles (gadget player on both ends).

The roster is horribly flawed but JB is making it 10 times worse by the way he’s using it IMO.

JB said the other day “you don’t know what you’ve got in players until you push them outside their comfort zones”.

That statement worried me.

Sometimes you just need to know and be content with a players strengths and allow the player to play to them.

[euphorbus]

There's only so many different ways you can make soup before you realize that it just tastes like...

In that is the case, the Hornets are a lost cause for the next five years. Why bother to watch?