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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1761 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:37 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
I'm not sure Atlanta would be in the market for Beal at this time. Offense is not an issue for them at all.

Miami, Denver, Golden State, Philly, Toronto, NO and maybe Boston would likely be making offers. We know Ainge's offer will be some BS so I was kinda hesitant to include them. Ainge will probably offer a package starring Grant Williams for Beal but digress. Lakers, Clippers, Dallas & Milwaukee don't have the pieces but would at least call. Anyone else is just taking a gamble.

That Minny pick looks to be either 4 or 5 or kicked out to the following year so some risk involved with that if you make a trade prior to the deadline. If that pick does end up at 4 or 5, then GS's offer gets better post lottery as you still get picks down the road. You get a high lottery pick to immediately add to your own and still get Wiseman. Wiggins also doesn't look like one of the five worst contracts in league anymore, just a solid but overpaid wing.

Also lets say a team fighting for a playoff spot could end up just missing the playoffs but they land a top 4 pick. How would we feel about a package NO could put together if they landed the 2nd pick in the draft? What if NY or ORL land a top 3 and wants to use it in a package to acquire a "all-star"?

So make it a 3-way with Atlanta. They're .500 with an excess of good players, so they must be in the market for something.


I'm sure Atlanta just can't wait to give away Hunter as the 3rd team in a three team deal lol.

I'm under the impression that Atlanta isn't ready for any sort of all in move for a title right now. I think they'd just be happy with a playoff appearance.

Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1762 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:34 pm

NatP4 wrote:Raptor player ratings now have John Collins at 10, and Hunter at 17th in the NBA, both above Beal.

You have no idea how RAPTOR is calculated, do you? In fact, you don't even know whether it's a direct calculation or involves some more complex trend analysis, or... who knows what else -- do you? Nor do you know whether it correlates to... anything... over time.

So... why do you bring it up?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1763 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:01 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Toronto trade idea:

Bonga and Robinson for Patrick McCaw and Yuta Tabuse

McCaw is a SG who defends well. Yuta is Japanese.Both have DMV ties, McCaw to Montrose Christian and Yuta to GW. Gets rid of Robinson’s salary and frees Bonga from Brooks. Gives a second fluent Japanese for whatever that does for Rui if anything.

Robinson and Bonga are both expiring contracts. There is no advantage to "getting rid of them" except we lose RFA rights and Bird Rights.

Now, if you want to argue that Yuta and McCaw are more talented than Bonga and Robinson, that's fine. I haven't watched them play at all so I have no idea. I'm just saying there's no contractual advantage to this move whatsoever.
On ESPN trade machine it says that Robinson has a two-year deal. My bad.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1764 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:So make it a 3-way with Atlanta. They're .500 with an excess of good players, so they must be in the market for something.


I'm sure Atlanta just can't wait to give away Hunter as the 3rd team in a three team deal lol.

I'm under the impression that Atlanta isn't ready for any sort of all in move for a title right now. I think they'd just be happy with a playoff appearance.

Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.
DeAndre Hunter seems to be progressing nicely. I would like to see the Wizard organization have a wing that can defend well, one who is on a rookie deal.

What kind of player is RJ Barrett so far? Could he replicate a good bit of what Bradley Beal does should the Knicks express interest? Could he improve like Hunter has?

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1765 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
I'm sure Atlanta just can't wait to give away Hunter as the 3rd team in a three team deal lol.

I'm under the impression that Atlanta isn't ready for any sort of all in move for a title right now. I think they'd just be happy with a playoff appearance.

Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.
DeAndre Hunter seems to be progressing nicely. I would like to see the Wizard organization have a wing that can defend well, one who is on a rookie deal.

What kind of player is RJ Barrett so far? Could he replicate a good bit of what Bradley Beal does should the Knicks express interest? Could he improve like Hunter has?

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I'm not a Barrett fan. He's too over-confident - takes too many bad shots. But he has improved this season and has the ability to defend well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1766 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:19 pm

payitforward wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Raptor player ratings now have John Collins at 10, and Hunter at 17th in the NBA, both above Beal.

You have no idea how RAPTOR is calculated, do you? In fact, you don't even know whether it's a direct calculation or involves some more complex trend analysis, or... who knows what else -- do you? Nor do you know whether it correlates to... anything... over time.

So... why do you bring it up?


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/introducing-raptor-our-new-metric-for-the-modern-nba/

Mention anything other than the most basic counting stats and you get personally offended. :lol: :lol:

Also, I recall you posting a NBA Math tweet regarding their TPA metric and saying “I have no clue what this is or how it’s calculated” so lay off. People can post whatever they want.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1767 » by DCZards » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.
DeAndre Hunter seems to be progressing nicely. I would like to see the Wizard organization have a wing that can defend well, one who is on a rookie deal.

What kind of player is RJ Barrett so far? Could he replicate a good bit of what Bradley Beal does should the Knicks express interest? Could he improve like Hunter has?

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I'm not a Barrett fan. He's too over-confident - takes too many bad shots. But he has improved this season and has the ability to defend well.

I like Barrett’s over-confidence. Yes, it does result in him taking too many bad shots but he’s basically been thrust into the role of being the Knicks lead dog from game one of his rookie season so that confidence/aggressiveness was an asset.

I would have a problem if I thought RJ was being selfish with his shot selection but I don’t believe that’s the case.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1768 » by TGW » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:45 pm

Quigley is better than Barrett. That kid has game.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1769 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:54 pm

TGW wrote:Quigley is better than Barrett. That kid has game.

Quickley's got absurd range - he'll shoot from 30 plus feet like it's nothing. But he's a bit uni dimensional.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1770 » by Dat2U » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:09 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:So make it a 3-way with Atlanta. They're .500 with an excess of good players, so they must be in the market for something.


I'm sure Atlanta just can't wait to give away Hunter as the 3rd team in a three team deal lol.

I'm under the impression that Atlanta isn't ready for any sort of all in move for a title right now. I think they'd just be happy with a playoff appearance.

Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.


Why is either mutually exclusive? Good to see he's progressing but:

A. Atlanta is not looking to deal him & not looking to go all in atm.

B. Hunter isnt enough as the best prospect coming back in a package.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1771 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
I'm sure Atlanta just can't wait to give away Hunter as the 3rd team in a three team deal lol.

I'm under the impression that Atlanta isn't ready for any sort of all in move for a title right now. I think they'd just be happy with a playoff appearance.

Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.


Why is either mutually exclusive? Good to see he's progressing but:

A. Atlanta is not looking to deal him & not looking to go all in atm.

B. Hunter isnt enough as the best prospect coming back in a package.

It feels like you've been talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not to mention... you were kicking and screaming about how Beal fits in every winning team, and now he somehow doesn't fit with Atl. With Hunter, a second ago you made a wisecrack indicating Atlanta's not gonna trade Hunter, and now you're saying he really isn't that good. Tbh, I don't what the heck you're trying to say about him. Every other post about him you're saying something different, imo.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1772 » by Dat2U » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:26 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Gimme a break - a couple weeks ago, you said Hunter wasn't good enough to be a key part of a Beal trade.


Why is either mutually exclusive? Good to see he's progressing but:

A. Atlanta is not looking to deal him & not looking to go all in atm.

B. Hunter isnt enough as the best prospect coming back in a package.

It feels like you've been talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not to mention... you were kicking and screaming about how Beal fits in every winning team, and now he somehow doesn't fit with Atl. With Hunter, a second ago you made a wisecrack indicating Atlanta's not gonna trade Hunter, and now you're saying he really isn't that good. Tbh, I don't what the heck you're trying to say about him. Every other post about him you're saying something different, imo.


I'm sorry basic logic and reasoning escapes you. I hope you find it. Somewhere.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1773 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...What kind of player is RJ Barrett so far? Could he replicate a good bit of what Bradley Beal does should the Knicks express interest? Could he improve like Hunter has?

I'm not a Barrett fan. He's too over-confident - takes too many bad shots. But he has improved this season and has the ability to defend well.

Barrett is a hot mess. Yes, he is a bit better this year than last -- mostly b/c he's rebounding a bit better & turning it over a bit less while bringing up his lousy FT % -- with the result that he is simply bad rather than absolutely horrible.

He might get better over time of course. Or he might not. Or he might get worse. One thing for sure is that he isn't someone to target in a trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1774 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:53 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Why is either mutually exclusive? Good to see he's progressing but:

A. Atlanta is not looking to deal him & not looking to go all in atm.

B. Hunter isnt enough as the best prospect coming back in a package.

It feels like you've been talking out of both sides of your mouth. Not to mention... you were kicking and screaming about how Beal fits in every winning team, and now he somehow doesn't fit with Atl. With Hunter, a second ago you made a wisecrack indicating Atlanta's not gonna trade Hunter, and now you're saying he really isn't that good. Tbh, I don't what the heck you're trying to say about him. Every other post about him you're saying something different, imo.


I'm sorry basic logic and reasoning escapes you. I you find it. Somewhere.

Ease up there cowboy. I'm just being honest. Btw, proofreading might help.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1775 » by DCZards » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:05 pm

payitforward wrote:Barrett is a hot mess. Yes, he is a bit better this year than last -- mostly b/c he's rebounding a bit better & turning it over a bit less while bringing up his lousy FT % -- with the result that he is simply bad rather than absolutely horrible.

He might get better over time of course. Or he might not. Or he might get worse. One thing for sure is that he isn't someone to target in a trade.

Given that he’s just 20 years old I’d expect Barrett to continue to get better…rather than worse. He's shown solid improvement since his rookie season.

This is from an article published today in Forbes.

Last year, Barrett averaged 14.3 points, 5.0 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game, which is actually quite good on the surface. But a deeper dive shows that the Canadian wing shot only 40.2% from the field and 32.0% from three — with a true shooting percentage of 47.9%. On top of that, Barrett’s advanced stats showed that he was rather obstructive as a member of the Knicks rotation, as his -2.9 OBPM (offensive box plus/minus) and -1.5 DBPM (defensive box plus/minus) made him a significant on-court negative.

This year, Barrett is averaging 17.4 points, 7.1 rebounds and 3.4 assists per game and looks a lot more comfortable in every aspect of the game. The 20-year-old is becoming one of the best in the league at getting himself to the rim, where he is capable of either finishing or drawing fouls. Barrett’s free throw attempts are up to just about five per game, but he is shooting 76.2% from the charity stripe, which looks a whole lot better than last year’s 61.4%. And despite the fact that his three-point percentage is only 25% this year, his stroke looks a little better than it did a year ago. He’s also 8 for 18 from the outside over the last six games. Barrett isn’t going to shoot 44.4% from deep the rest of the season, but the confidence is nice to see and the higher clip falls in line with his improved free-throw shooting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2021/01/25/new-yorks-rj-barrett-is-beginning-to-live-up-to-the-hype/?sh=219e464bbc6e
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1776 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:35 pm

NatP4 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Raptor player ratings now have John Collins at 10, and Hunter at 17th in the NBA, both above Beal.

You have no idea how RAPTOR is calculated, do you? In fact, you don't even know whether it's a direct calculation or involves some more complex trend analysis, or... who knows what else -- do you? Nor do you know whether it correlates to... anything... over time.

So... why do you bring it up?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/introducing-raptor-our-new-metric-for-the-modern-nba/

Mention anything other than the most basic counting stats and you get personally offended. :lol: :lol:

Also, I recall you posting a NBA Math tweet regarding their TPA metric and saying “I have no clue what this is or how it’s calculated” so lay off. People can post whatever they want.

Absolutely, amigo -- people can post whatever they want. But, I meant to be asking a real question: why do you bring up RAPTOR? I assume you must have a reason.

As to "basic counting stats," a good example of a pair of those is wins and losses. :)

A team's record tells me how well the team's players are performing as a whole. Nothing else is needed. Anything else is fiction.

That's where I start; & the question is how the results an individual one of those players produces while on the floor relate to wins & losses. That requires the numbers, a time metric, & -- above all -- a way to weight the significance of various kinds of numbers that gives you a maximally high correlation with the team's record.

Assuming I didn't write that in an incomprehensible way, i.e. that I said something a bright guy like you will understand, then perhaps you can ask yourself what else could possibly be relevant in judging how well a guy is playing -- or rather in showing one metric to be a better approximation of that than some other metric. I can't think of anything -- can you?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1777 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:41 am

Another big ol beal trade idea.

NO : Beal, Ish, J.Robinson

OKC : Westbrook, Robert Williams III, 2021 SRP from NO via cavs, 2021 SRP from NYK via pistons

Boston : Hill, Burtans

NYK : Reddick, Ball, Justin jackson

WIZ : Ariza, D Miller, Smith Jr, Nitillkina, hayes, alexander-walker, prichard, nesmith 2021 first from NYK via MAVs, 2022 first from boston, 2022 first from NO, 2023 first from NO via LA, 2024 first from NO, 2025 first from NO via bucks, 2026 first from NO, 2027 first from NO Via bucks.

A little different from my last idea

WHY?

NO : same as before they make a big 3 along with two good starters and have one of the best young cores and one of the better starting 5s in the west. They get some depth back in ish and robinson and are isntant players in the guy out market that will take place in late Feb. This team is a play off team in the west and can challenge an aging lebron with some good depth added. Yes that's a lot to give up but, they still have a FR pick every year except 2026. They are trading away extra picks. Yeah those are a lot of picks 6, but they arnt emptying their coffers all the way and this helpa them more than those picks do big threes are hard to put together and that is a legit one. Maybe take a first or two off but considering they are all gonna be late round picks with that one in 2026 and 2027 being up in the air it seems fair.

OKC again same as before they need some young bigs williams give them a good young rebounder and the seconds along with williams pays for them taking westbrook. Why do they want west brook, well their cap room isn't much good in a tank and having him helps the young team and he's a home town hero who I'm sure at this point is content just putting on a show.

Boston. It's an arms race, adding bench weapons like Burtans and hill help them compete with a thin nets team. Prichard is playing minutes but Hill is the more experienced and better player and Burtans out shoots any big they have. They don't have the pieces to trade for beal and hoenstly they shouldn't try, they have brown and he's good and affordable. This also keeps beal away from the heat and other east contenders. Honestly beals would make a few east teams better than boston but they get him out of the east and make their team better in the process. They are trading a couple of ayers that don't see any minutes or few minutes, guys that have redundancies on the team ( williams - fall, prichard- edwards, nesmith- langford) for two players that can push them over the top, also they can be players in the buy out market and add some 3 and D.

NYK : thai team is doing much better than they even hopped. So they flip 2 players they aren't playing, and two picks that arnt theirs for 3 pretty decent pieces to add depth. Ball and reddick would work well on that bench and taking a flyer on jackson would help that team make a play off push.

WIZ: yes those are all later picks. I get that . But 8 firsts are 8 firsts, I don't care if they are late having two firsts are good because you can make trades they are assets and one knee injury away from being "good" picks . That being said the young players we get may not be blue chips but they are promising. Once you cut some dead weight. Ariza miller and smith jr are probably cut right away. You probably trade or cut one or more of nato, lopez and gill. You have a choice to make about nitillkina do you take a flyer and keep him on the team or cut him too and move on ? Idk. Prichard is really interesting to me so it alexander walker. Hayes is still raw but he's what 20 and bigs as we know develop slow And nesmith is an unknown but a good prospect. Also, you dump westbrook in a trade where you get 8 firsts and young players and you don't take back any back money to do so. Also you are left with a lot of cap room to go take a contract for an asset form a team trying to get under the tax or make a trade happen. That's a young team with a lot of good young players. Get rid of brooks and rebuild. End of story.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1778 » by prime1time » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:21 am

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:It appears the longer we wait, the less likely we can get De'Andre Hunter. He's coming off a 33 point (13 of 22) game against Milwaukee. Okongwu's still raw now, but he might not be by the end of the season.


I'm not sure Atlanta would be in the market for Beal at this time. Offense is not an issue for them at all.

Miami, Denver, Golden State, Philly, Toronto, NO and maybe Boston would likely be making offers. We know Ainge's offer will be some BS so I was kinda hesitant to include them. Ainge will probably offer a package starring Grant Williams for Beal but digress. Lakers, Clippers, Dallas & Milwaukee don't have the pieces but would at least call. Anyone else is just taking a gamble.

That Minny pick looks to be either 4 or 5 or kicked out to the following year so some risk involved with that if you make a trade prior to the deadline. If that pick does end up at 4 or 5, then GS's offer gets better post lottery as you still get picks down the road. You get a high lottery pick to immediately add to your own and still get Wiseman. Wiggins also doesn't look like one of the five worst contracts in league anymore, just a solid but overpaid wing.

Also lets say a team fighting for a playoff spot could end up just missing the playoffs but they land a top 4 pick. How would we feel about a package NO could put together if they landed the 2nd pick in the draft? What if NY or ORL land a top 3 and wants to use it in a package to acquire a "all-star"?

What if the Wizards finish high in the lottery and use that pick to trade for a star? I.e., we trade get a high draft pick and we trade for Karl Anthony Towns?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1779 » by prime1time » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:28 am

My point has always been the same. If Beal says he's out, then I trade him. Other than that I build around Beal. This year has just been crazy all around. But if we can figure out the Westbrook debacle - is it really possible for a player to get that much worse in one season? - I still like the team. Rui a year older, Brown Jr a year older, Bonga, Deni a year older. Bertans still on the roster. People assume that it will be the Wizards trading Beal. But it could just as well be us going all in and trading for a star. I.e. packing multiple firsts and pick swaps. IMO, this is the more likely scenario. It's hard for me to advocate for trading Beal without "going down swinging." When you have a player as talented as Beal, trading him and rebuilding is the last option. You should try everything to create a contender around him, and when that fails you trade him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1780 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:46 pm

prime1time wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:It appears the longer we wait, the less likely we can get De'Andre Hunter. He's coming off a 33 point (13 of 22) game against Milwaukee. Okongwu's still raw now, but he might not be by the end of the season.


I'm not sure Atlanta would be in the market for Beal at this time. Offense is not an issue for them at all.

Miami, Denver, Golden State, Philly, Toronto, NO and maybe Boston would likely be making offers. We know Ainge's offer will be some BS so I was kinda hesitant to include them. Ainge will probably offer a package starring Grant Williams for Beal but digress. Lakers, Clippers, Dallas & Milwaukee don't have the pieces but would at least call. Anyone else is just taking a gamble.

That Minny pick looks to be either 4 or 5 or kicked out to the following year so some risk involved with that if you make a trade prior to the deadline. If that pick does end up at 4 or 5, then GS's offer gets better post lottery as you still get picks down the road. You get a high lottery pick to immediately add to your own and still get Wiseman. Wiggins also doesn't look like one of the five worst contracts in league anymore, just a solid but overpaid wing.

Also lets say a team fighting for a playoff spot could end up just missing the playoffs but they land a top 4 pick. How would we feel about a package NO could put together if they landed the 2nd pick in the draft? What if NY or ORL land a top 3 and wants to use it in a package to acquire a "all-star"?

What if the Wizards finish high in the lottery and use that pick to trade for a star? I.e., we trade get a high draft pick and we trade for Karl Anthony Towns?

We keep the pick if it's top 3, because the top 3 project as future stars. It's possible but not likely that 1 or 2 more players will move up to that level before the draft. Say we get the 4th or 5th pick. We could offer it plus Bryant, Bertans (who they'd trade to another team), and either Rui or Avdija for Towns.
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